Marc Dobson
Western Thunderer
Apologies not and expert so didn't know.
Marc
Marc
S7 track construction question
- Thread starter Marc Dobson
- Start date
Hayfield1
Western Thunderer
Mark
To start off with it might help finding an example which shows you what chairs are required, the one you have posted was for information to those developing 3D printed chairs and clearly states these chairs are an area not yet developed
https://exactoscale.com/wp-content/uploads/web-Common-Crossings.jpg
This is a diagram of the various chairs in common crossings.
As said "Off the Rails" have a good selection in 7mm scale chairs. Exactoscale make these chairs plus many other special chairs in 4mm scale.
Exactoscale make the L1 (bridge chairs) in 7mm scale, C&L sell cast A chairs. Off the Rails sell 3D printed chairs
Chairs X,Y, B,C,D & E can be represented by carefully splicing chairs together, though you may wish to scratch build some centre parts of the block chairs
Marc it would be better for all if you replaced your diagram with the one I have attached to both to save any confusion and inform others
Other than the cast bridge chairs I do have the products I have mentioned and am happy to try and answer any queries you have
This area on the Exactoscale is very useful as it shows what chairs are required in turnouts, crossings and slips, its for their 4mm scale range, like the C&L track plans they have the chair type and positions shown on the plan, below is a link to Exactoscale's special chair diagrams
Chair Positions - Exactoscale Products
Chair Position Information Special chairs are used in all types of track formations. The images below will expand when clicked, and the image captions will download the relevant PDF. Left-hand Switches Right-hand Switches Common Crossings 1:5 & 1:6 Diamond Crossings 1:7 Diamond and Slips 1:8...
exactoscale.com
Why not join Templot Club and read some of the threads, you may find them informative
Regards
John
simond
Western Thunderer
Martin,
I understand your frustration, but please be assured, nobody thinks Templot is rubbish.
It’s b****y brilliant, and has been a key factor in many layouts’ success, including my own modest efforts. I can’t imagine doing without it.
Simon
Marc Dobson
Western Thunderer
Hi John,
I joined the club a few months ago, I'm still trying to get my head around it.
I'm seeing the idea of a dock side layout where I can bury most of not all of the track under cobbles and have only the top of the rail visible. Soldering everything down to the copper clad with an extra check rail on the inside if everything.
Looking at your drawings I'm missing X, A and B all others could be done with standard chairs. I had another look at the off the rails stuff but it doesn't go down to angle I need. The joy of industrial modelling.
Marc
I joined the club a few months ago, I'm still trying to get my head around it.
I'm seeing the idea of a dock side layout where I can bury most of not all of the track under cobbles and have only the top of the rail visible. Soldering everything down to the copper clad with an extra check rail on the inside if everything.
Looking at your drawings I'm missing X, A and B all others could be done with standard chairs. I had another look at the off the rails stuff but it doesn't go down to angle I need. The joy of industrial modelling.
Marc
Stephen Freeman
Western Thunderer
Just an historical note for those that may have forgotten. Waverley Point kits were available from a chap in Sheffield (sorry forgotten his name, should know it), trading as Specialised Products, sadly he died young quite suddenly from a heart attack. When available, he would supply the kits without the copperclad at a reduced price.
A point to note is that you will probably have to refine the point blades as from memory, the planing on the inner surface was non-existant. A sad loss, he was just starting with a RTR Jinty loco at a very reasonable price.
I have always found Off the Rails from Shapeways of excellent quality, not cheap but following Brexit just ridiculous, so am keeping my fingers crossed that Martin does the missing chairs in Templot fairly soon. In the meantime, I am working my way through my existing stock of Off the Rails chairs, which is rapidly approaching zero.
Marc Dobson
Western Thunderer
No grubble with off the rails just the cost and lack of printing quality from Shapeways. I had a lat of complaints form customers who had bought my stuff from my shop re the quality of the surface finish. And the last batch of stuff I ordered for patterns came in with most of the details missing and when I complained I was told it was my model.
Marc
Marc
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
I don't think Templot is being made to look rubbish, not everyone starting out in track building fully understands that there are numerous types of rail chair used in the make up of point and crossing work.
Some of these chairs can be represented by cutting up the chair types that are available on the market.
I will point out that although they may prove expensive to some there are complete kits of the correct point work chairs available from 'Off The Rails' ( Shapeways), I only say this as a satisfied customer who is as pedantic about trackwork as I am about the detail on any other model.
Col.
Some of these chairs can be represented by cutting up the chair types that are available on the market.
I will point out that although they may prove expensive to some there are complete kits of the correct point work chairs available from 'Off The Rails' ( Shapeways), I only say this as a satisfied customer who is as pedantic about trackwork as I am about the detail on any other model.
Col.
martin_wynne
Western Thunderer
Hi Marc,
Thanks. I'm sorry I had a rush of blood there. I had a boiled egg and calmed down. I should have had it before posting.
Here is the review of the Waverley kits from the Autumn 1988 issue of the Gauge O Guild Gazette:
The proprietor of Specialised Products was very helpful and friendly. Like Stephen I have forgotten his name, but I forget most things nowadays. It was very sad when he died suddenly just as he was getting the range started. His main business was in making replica swords and weapons for enactments of medieval battles. He was very interested in what I was doing with Templot, although at that stage (1988) it was still in its infancy.
An A-4 turnout is a strange size and very wasteful of space. I would suggest using the parts to build a 9ft-4 instead. It will be shorter, but with an easier radius. Simply change the switch to a 9ft straight switch in Templot and print a new template.
The built-up slab & bracket designs of "A" chair were introduced in the post-grouping period. At that time most of the 1:4 turnouts in yards, docks, etc., would have been remaining from pre-grouping days, using ordinary cast chairs under the crossing nose with wooden keys. You can easily represent them by cutting the outside part of ordinary chairs.
If you have a 3D resin printer you can make some of the chairs you need from files exported from Templot, but not yet the special crossing chairs -- the chairing functions are all still experimental and unfinished. Templot is free, the files are free, and if you already have the printer the only cost will be a few pence for the resin. I'm working on the crossing chairs as we speak, and I'm hoping to release some progress with them soon.
More info here: Plug Track
cheers,
Martin.
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
For those who want to dig deeper into track detail I can recommend getting hold of this book published by The Permanent Way Institution.
I have the 1st edition from 1943 and also the 1964 third edition which covers both bullhead and flat bottom track.
You'll find some examples at extortionate prices but keep looking and you will find some sensibly priced.
Col.
I have the 1st edition from 1943 and also the 1964 third edition which covers both bullhead and flat bottom track.
You'll find some examples at extortionate prices but keep looking and you will find some sensibly priced.
Col.
Marc Dobson
Western Thunderer
Martin
No worries.
Looking at the experimental chair arrangement as it's so tight I should be able to use "normal" chairs. In an industrial setting it's more likely that they would have used standard chairs as much as possible.
Marc
No worries.
Looking at the experimental chair arrangement as it's so tight I should be able to use "normal" chairs. In an industrial setting it's more likely that they would have used standard chairs as much as possible.
Marc
martin_wynne
Western Thunderer
Hi Simon,
Thanks. I know no-one here thinks Templot is rubbish.
But that's not the point. That image will now be indexed on Google and come up in search results worldwide for 100 years. It would be so unfair to a future modeller on the other side of the planet if they were misled into thinking it represents actual UK bullhead track from the last century.
cheers,
Martin.
Hayfield1
Western Thunderer
Marc
You must be careful but in general you can splice two chairs to fit each other to represent a block chair. The B chair can be represented by a half chair
When it comes to the C, D & E chairs the size of the crossing is important as it could be a block chair or L1 or a standard chair, the diagram I have uploaded shows which chair goes where
I have some Off the Rails chairs, but as you say unless you are buying in bulk Shapeways is in my opinion a very expensive way of buying items, its a great pity that the products are not available from one of the societies or a UK 3D printer, but I understand why the designer does not want to get too involved in the products production/availability
Marc Dobson
Western Thunderer
I believe he wants to remain very hands off, which I can't blame him. I started just producing stuff for my dad back in 1999 and over the last 24 years things have some what snowballed. During lockdown I put my hand in my pocket and bought my own HD 3D printer it wasn't cheap but it had payed for itself 3 times over in the first year.
If I could get my hands on a drawing I could produce them.
Marc
If I could get my hands on a drawing I could produce them.
Marc
martin_wynne
Western Thunderer
@Marc Dobson
Hi Marc,
You can download the chair drawings from:
https://www.lmssociety.org.uk/assets/pdfs/permanentWay1928.pdf
Some information about this download is on the Templot Club forum at:
REA Bullhead track drawings
cheers,
Martin.
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Marc Dobson
Western Thunderer
Martin,
Many thanks for that. once I have finshed the 3 locos that are currently under development I will be moving onto 3D printed track chairs.
Marc
Many thanks for that. once I have finshed the 3 locos that are currently under development I will be moving onto 3D printed track chairs.
Marc
Marc Dobson
Western Thunderer
I have bit the bullet so to speak. I found a load of slaters ply sleepers, fake chairs, rivets and 125 code rail in the shed. So after printing out 2 30ft track sections I gave the soldering method a go. So far so good. Just got the chairs to add.
Marc
Marc
spikey faz
Western Thunderer
Ian@StEnochs
Western Thunderer
When I built the track for Auchlin I used Slaters ply and rivets. On most I used a riveted sleeper every third one and only added the cosmetic chairs once I was happy with the running.
We never had any problems despite the layout being kept in the loft, big temperature swings, and carted around a lot of shows in bumpy vans.
Ian.
Marc Dobson
Western Thunderer
This is how far I have got. So far. I have run a van over the first bit if track runs really well. I need to order some more sleepers in the morning along with a few more rivets
All the track is cut and the rail for the point comes from a Waverley A4 LH point kit. Once the sleepers are down progress should be pretty quick as far as the track.
Marc
All the track is cut and the rail for the point comes from a Waverley A4 LH point kit. Once the sleepers are down progress should be pretty quick as far as the track.
Marc