S7'ing Dapol RTR wagons

[Dog Star]

Simon,

I think that Dapol has used several "standards" for axle and bearing design in the recent past... the original, pure Dapol-design, wagons had axles and bearings with which the Slater's S7 wheelsets could be exchanged easily. Subsequently, and probably associated with the merger between Dapol and Lionheart, the more recent Dapol introductions use a shorter axle and a bearing which can best be described as a circular blank with a dimple.

Earlier this year Rob Thompson and I arranged for production of axles which are the correct length for recent Dapol releases (think ex-Lionheart 16T Minerals or ex-Lionheart auto coaches) and with shoulders at the correct separation to accept Slater's S7 wheels (at correct B2B for S7 track). In effect what we are doing is fitting Dapol wagons with a special-to-type Slater's S7 wheelset.

Rob and I are supplying these axles to S7 members at £1.50 per pair.

regards, Graham

 

[Caggers]

So now I am confused.

I returned the Dapol wheels expecting the replacements to fit using the original bearings. Slaters bearings do not fit into the axleboxes as the holes are too big.
Are you saying I need to remove the new wheels, from their axles and fit them to your axles, which will then use the original bearings?

If so, how can I buy 4 axles?

Why would Dapol not use axles that work with the bearings, but provide those that do not match the returned set?

 

[Scale7JB]

Just today I kind of perfected the method for springing these wagons.

It involves a bit of carving and popping a spring about the existing brass collar in the axlebox moulding and using Slaters standard axles.

If I get a chance I'll write it up.

JB.

 

[Osgood]

Dapol will exchange 3-hole disc axle sets for S7 sets assuming they have stock available. These are a direct replacement.

Beware though - they also agreed to exchange spoked sets for S7 spoked sets (Lionheart derived wagons) - and even went off to physically check availability when I pressed them for confirmation. Not that that did much good, because when I sent a load off to them I got in return a load of S7 3-hole disc sets! Another phone call revealed they didn't actually have any spoked sets.

So Graham's axles would be a way to 'S7' spoked wheel wagons using Slater's wheels, and 3-hole too if Dapol have no availability.

Alternatively, could the Lionheart / Dapol wheels could be turned to S7 and put back on axles simply re-gauged (with spacers if necessary)?

 

[Overseer]

I have converted a Lionheart tank and several Dapol wagons to S7 and have explained it on WT. one of them is here - (if I can do it on the ipad) 7mm - Dapol Diag 1/039 & 1/044 Open Wagons . I can't remember the thread name for the tank, but that was done to retain the wheels with front and back detail.

 

[Caggers]

@Osgood nope the 3 hole wheels are not a direct replacement for those I returned to Dapol. I should have either kept one set or taken pictures of what I returned, but what I have eceived from Dapol do not fit the wagons I have. They should have been able to see this from the items I sent to them...

Hmmm, so it looks like there are two options:

1, keep the original wheels and have them turned down to S7 standard, then respace them on the original axles (too late for this now)
2, buy replacement axles and fit S7 Slaters wheels,

The problem here is Dapol have gone to the trouble of agreeing to exchange wheels to S7 standard that do not fit, why not just say we don't support S7 and the above two options still stand. I now have 3 hole disc wheels which do not match the spoked wheels I returned. It would have been nice for them to let me know the axles did not match and therefore would not fit my wagons. I could have then had my original wheels returned to me and at least had the option of #1 above.

 

[Caggers]

Option 3 fit slaters S7 spoked wheels using the original bearings...

This works...

Anyone want to buy some Dapol 3 hole S7 wheels?

 

[Osgood]

Caggers - are you trying to put these into Lionheart or Webster-designed Dapol wagons (the recent vans, opens) - or older Dapol wagons?

 

[Dog Star]

For those who have access to the S7 Newsletter, I have written about this subject in two Trade Reports in this year.

I talked with Joel, one of the Dapol managers, at the Bristol Show in January this year about the confused picture of S7 wheel support from Dapol - my interpretation of that discussion is that S7 wheel exchange shall continue until the supply is exhausted. At that time, the S7 wheels available from Dapol were three-hole disc of Lionheart manufacture and that is why I posted, yesterday, that there are (at least?) two lengths of axle and two types of bearing in use for current Dapol wagons.

Simon, please post a picture of the wagon which you are converting... and please measure the length of the original axle over pin-points.

regards, Graham

 

[Caggers]

Right, so... Back to my conversion, and Graham's request.

I do not have the original wheels as they have been swapped with Dapol, however the replacement Dapol wheels do not fit the wagons. So I have drawn the two different sets of axles I have here and may find another Dapol wagan to measure the axles to fill the set.


Please note as the wheel dimensions are not in dispute I have not drawn the profile, but might later. This diagram is to show the axle profile...

This is one of the wagons now fitted with Slaters S7 wheels + axles using the original Dapol bearings.

 

[Scale7JB]

I don't understand how changing a wheel set is a scale7 conversion?

You do ideally need springing aswell?

JB.

 

[richard carr]

Sorry JB you do not need to spring them, they are already compensated and it is perfectly adequate as a suspension system.

Richard

 

[richard carr]

My HAA wagons are scheduled to arrive on Friday, I'm intending to convert them using Rob/Graham's replacement slaters axles and replacement slaters 3 foot 7 inch coach wheels.

I'll let you know how I get on.

Richard

 

[Scale7JB]

Sorry JB you do not need to spring them, they are already compensated and it is perfectly adequate as a suspension system.

Richard

Hi Richard, I was referring to the basic boggo standard Dapol wagons, private owner etc, which have a completely solid chassis. The ex-Lionheart ones as you say are a straight wheel swap.

I did find though that the compensation units could do with a little clearing, certainly mine at least as the rocking beam was catching on something. 2 minutes with a scalpel in the offending area and the wagon now works perfectly on Love Lane.

JB.

 

[Overseer]

But how much time would you want to spend on one of the original Dapol wagons? There are so many errors that it would be impossible to end up with an accurate model. If a straight wheel swap works and it stays on the track that is probably OK. It seems strange that Dapol keep churning them out when they have the ex Lionheart tooling for good RCH 1923 wagons. Different market I suppose.

 

[Dog Star]

To put some numbers on the table, the standard 7mm axle from Slaters, used for 0-FS and S7 wheel sets, is 1.875" over the pin-points (or 47.6mm). The axles available from Rob Thompson (@S7BcSR) or myself are 1.678" over pin-points (or 42.6mm). There is some tolerance in the machine process of the axles so the overall length varies from 42.6 to 42.8mm. I note that there is a similar variation between Lionheart and Dapol wheel sets.

We have had the shorter axle manufactured, in the style of a Slater's wheel set, so that we can use Slater's S7 wheels in the ex-Lionheart wagons and carriages which have been re-introduced by Dapol. As of today we do not know if our alternative axles are suitable for the Dapol HAA model... I shall know later this week when some 7mm HAAs arrive from Tower Models.

Regards, Graham

 

[Osgood]

I take it the Slaters S7 wheels can only be purchased as an axle set (i.e. assembled onto a standard Slaters axle), Graham?
Just wondering about those 32 x split spoke wheel axle sets that I returned to Dapol, for which I received 3-hole S7 sets......

Tony

 

[Scale7JB]

This is probably about an hours work tops, and nothing more than a set of Slaters wheels and axle, and 4no. wagon buffer springs..



JB.

 

[richard carr]

JB

Where's the spring?

Richard

 

[Dog Star]

Where's the spring?

In the top of the axlebox moulding pressing down on the axle bearing bush?

What wagon is shown in the photo?