Basingstoke Scruff's Junction (S7) at Basingstoke Show 8th / 9th March 2025

[Jordan or Plymouth Mad]

I used to collect Forest of Dean related Private Owner wagons in 4mm scale many years ago. There were quite a lot available when you started looking!! I say 'related' because wagons like the Berry Wiggins tankers have no mention of the F.o.D. on them at all, but did have a close association with the area for some years.

 

[Dog Star]

I used to collect Forest of Dean related Private Owner wagons in 4mm scale many years ago. There were quite a lot available when you started looking!! I say 'related' because wagons like the Berry Wiggins tankers have no mention of the F.o.D. on them at all, but did have a close association with the area for some years.

And the tar train escaped the camera... we have five of the Dapol / Lionheart examples some of which are in need of a number change.

 

[Compound2632]

My little experimental S7 wagon, Midland 8-ton goods and coal wagon No. 89916, last Saturday. Slaters kit, with their sprung axleguards / axleboxes etc. I was a bit doubtful about the springing but it stayed on the rails through the pointwork until dragged off by that pannier splitting the points...

 

[Dog Star]

Stephen (@Compound2632),

Why were you doubtful about the sprung axleboxes?

Rgds, Graham

 

[Jordan or Plymouth Mad]

until dragged off by that pannier splitting the points...

Oh my word!! Keep that bit quiet!! We don't want @Not Enough Panniers to think an S7 Pannier is anything less than 100% reliable...

 

[Compound2632]

Why were you doubtful about the sprung axleboxes?

Chiefly because as a novice in using them, I hadn't taken enough care to get the axleboxes properly free-sliding in the axleguards, with the result that the springs weren't pushing them up against the keeper plate, under no load. Under load, the axleboxes are sitting at the top of their travel, whereas one would hope for mid-travel. Consequently, I was doubtful whether there would actually be any movement down, or recovery back up, as a wheel went over a point crossing. I would be interested to examine the motion of a properly-made example running over pointwork.

 

[Northroader]

I dunno, I used to think all the boxes would be mid travel when sprung, now I suspect they’re all up against the stops, and ready to push a wheel down into any hole in the track as it appears underneath. As you say, free travel is necessary, I got a loco on eBay a while back, fully compensated, but everything solid with paint.

 

[Crimson Rambler]

May I recommend @Compound2632 that you dig out copies of Model Railway Journal issues Nos 80, 101 and 104 as these give a good insight into the Slater's wagon suspension system. It is also compared with other designs.
If you haven't got access to these issues let me know and can scan them for you if you wish.


Crimson Rambler

 

[Wagonman]

I dunno, I used to think all the boxes would be mid travel when sprung, now I suspect they’re all up against the stops, and ready to push a wheel down into any hole in the track as it appears underneath. As you say, free travel is necessary, I got a loco on eBay a while back, fully compensated, but everything solid with paint.

I prefer the Exactoscale/Bill Bedford style of springing. If you want the springs to be at mid-travel when at rest use a sufficiently strong wire.

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

Proper sprung axleboxes ride on the springs. If the box is against the stop and can only go down it is rigid and the vehicle will bump/clunk on meeting any raised joint. A live sprung vehicle will glide over bumps and dips with the body staying level while each wheel rises or falls following the rail. Poetry in motion!

 

[JimG]

I have found that you also need to add weight to rolling stock to get the springing to work well. In S scale the average wagon with a wooden or styrene body weighs around 20 - 25 grams. I have found that I need to ballast the wagons to 50 - 60 grams to get good operation with 0.007" guitar wire. I remember working on sprung wagons in Scale7 some years ago and I think I remember that recommended wagon weights were in the 120 - 130 gram region.

Also springs should be set such that the axleboxes are just held at their bottom travel when the wheels are unladen so that they move to the mid position of their movement when the wagon is placed on the track. This is a factor of the sprung "W" iron design and you might have to do a bit of adjustment to make sure this happens.

Russ Elliot's pages on the CLAG web site are the go-to place for all the calculations on spring wire diameter and length.

Deflection of beams – menu page

Deflection of beams – menu page

www.clag.org.uk

I remember that someone in the Scale7 Society had a demo of the advantages of wagon springing which they had on their stand at exhibitions. If I remember correctly it was a crossover tilted at an angle and an solid frame wagon, a compensated wagon and a fully sprung wagon were allowed to run across the crossover and the advantages were quite apparent.

Jim.

 

[Overseer]

I remember that someone in the Scale7 Society had a demo of the advantages of wagon springing which they had on their stand at exhibitions. If I remember correctly it was a crossover tilted at an angle and an solid frame wagon, a compensated wagon and a fully sprung wagon were allowed to run across the crossover and the advantages were quite apparent.

That was Peter Kirmond in the later 1990s. He wrote up the results of his experiments in the S7 Group magazine at the time and I think it was mentioned in MRJ as well.