Sleepers And Timbers - What Is Your Preference?

[Dog Star]

Very nice work Martin.

In the Jigs and Gauges thread I have described the reason for inserting a support spacer under the sleeper spacers and I think that with the length of your jig that my reasoning might be just as appropriate. When sliding the completed track panel from the jig there is a danger that one or more sleepers will snag against a spacer - if that happens then there is a shearing force applied to the joint between the chair and sleeper for the sleeper which snags. The support spacer allows me to insert a thin piece of ply or ruler under the ends of the sleepers and hence to lift all of the sleepers at the same time. As soon as the end of the sleepers are above the sleeper spacers then the panel can be lifted from the jig without damage to the fixing of chair to sleeper.

 

[daifly]

I bought this jig set as part of an Exactoscale jig bundle on eBay a couple of years ago. I've inserted a few C & L ply sleepers which are positioned against a strip of card which aligns with the index marks.
I believe that the chairs are then located at the ends of the visible part of the sleepers and gauged to the required track gauge. I have yet to use it in anger and the jig came without instructions so my methodology is speculative!

I've not seen the jigs in the current Exactoscale list so presume that they are no longer available. Has anyone else used these jigs?

Dave

 

[Dog Star]

What may help you is to search the online index for Model Railway Journal. Probably seven or eight years back there was a review of the parts and a photo-article on assembling track using the various jigs and gauges.

 

[daifly]

What may help you is to search the online index for Model Railway Journal. Probably seven or eight years back there was a review of the parts and a photo-article on assembling track using the various jigs and gauges.

Thanks Graham. I will investigate this afternoon.

Dave

 

[3 LINK]

Hi Graham and Dave,

That is a good idea regarding the use of a support spacer under the jig, up to now I have had to gently ease out the panel a couple of millimetres until I can get my steel 2 foot ruler up tight against the rail face and then with even pressure it will slide out OK.

As for the Exactoscale jig, I have never seen one before but what I would say is anything from Len Newman would be well thought out and should work fine.

ATB, Martyn.

 

[Dog Star]

As for the Exactoscale jig, I have never seen one before but what I would say is anything from Len Newman would be well thought out and should work fine.

Ah!!!!! an "assume" is on the horizon. We must not forget that Exactoscale has had two incarnations.... originally with Bernard Weller and Malcolm Cross and now with Len Newman and Andrew Jukes. Bernard was and Len is superb as engineers.... either of them could have created the gauge shown in an earlier post. My money is that the jig was produced by Bernard and not continued by Len (same story with the Exacstoscale 7mm Fixed Axle Suspension System... parts and jigs produced by Bernard with a new design by Len - same idea, easier manufacture and assembly).

regards, Graham

 

[3 LINK]

Oh dear I have "assumed" wrong and not for the first time this week and it's only Monday , on to another note Graham, I have just spent an enjoyable hour reading another of your topics "Hartley Hill" .

I do like the colour of the stain used on the Exactoscale sleepers, "Dark oak wood" spirit stain could you please tell me the manufacturers name and where I can purchase some. Looks just right for the Western region circa 1955 .

ATB, Martyn.

 

[Dog Star]

I have just spent an enjoyable hour reading ... ..."Hartley Hill" .

I do like the colour of the stain used on the Exactoscale sleepers, "Dark oak wood" spirit stain could you please tell me the manufacturers name and where I can purchase some. Looks just right for the Western region circa 1955 .

Hello Martyn,

I am glad that you are enjoying the Hartley Hill topic, work down at the station seems to be going backward rather than forward at this time as I come to terms with the information contained in a LNWR PW drawing, of 1909, which came through my letter box earlier this week.

Thank you for reminding me that I had not answered your question about colouring of the sleepers for Hartley Hill, for new readers this question relates to the pictures in post no. #33 of the Hartley Hill topic. Colouring of sleepers is one of those subjects which seems to be personal to an individual and I amsure that there are going to be many of the WT readership who might disagree with my approach here. Whilst my preference is to dip / soak sleepers in spirit wood stain I have used other methods when so requested. For example, Adrian Marks asked me to use shoe dye and Iso-Propyl Alcohol for the track for Artillery Lane, the method and result is documented here. After much discussion I think it is true to say that we felt shoe dye / IPA did not give the desired result for trackwork in the dark and damp conditions of the East End of London.

So what have I used to achieve the appearance of fresh creosote? I am reminded of the words of Viv Stanshall when drunk whilst recording a track from Tubular Bells - "Bu**ered if I know". The stain which was used for the stained sleepers in the Hartley Hills post was some which I bought about 43 years ago.... and the label is on the tin!!!!

I have used spirit wood stain from Colron and from Blackfriars, each is a stain solution in which the dye is carried in a volatile, organic, solvent hence the timber absorbs the stain / colour rapidly and dries quickly. In general I leave the timber in the stain bath for no more than 3 or 4 minutes before draining (using a kitchen sieve with a metal mesh - dedicated to the task!). I leave the wet sleepers on newspaper to dry, the length of time required before the sleepers can be considered as "dry" depends upon the air temperature.... 30 minutes in summer and maybe two hours in winter. If the colour of the stained timber is too dark then adding IPA to the spirit bath before dunking timbers does help to reduce the rate at which the timber takes up the colour of the stain.

As for info on the web, try here for product details and here for stockists - I am happy to use Colron and Blackfriars... the Blackfriar's web site seemed friendly compared to getting the same information for Colron.

I have no experience of using the modern, low VOC, wood stains.... instinct tells me that the results may be less than satisfactory.

regards, Graham

 

[3 LINK]

Maybe I might try acrylic paint as it's water based, practice makes perfect so they say .

ATB, Martyn.

 

[Dog Star]

Martyn, an advantage of spirit stain is that the solution does not clog the grain - I think that any paint effect is going to hide the timber grain to some extent. If you are likely to make the Basingstoke show in March then I can take some samples for you to inspect.

 

[adrian]

Hello Martyn,
I have used spirit wood stain from Colron and from Blackfriars, each is a stain solution in which the dye is carried in a volatile, organic, solvent hence the timber absorbs the stain / colour rapidly and dries quickly. In general I leave the timber in the stain bath for no more than 3 or 4 minutes before draining (using a kitchen sieve with a metal mesh - dedicated to the task!).

I've used Colron and Rustins wood stain on my demo board but rather than soaking the sleepers in a bath I've laid out the sleepers on a Templot template using double sided sticky tape. I've then painted the individual sleepers on the template with the stain, so no bathing involved. I also found that I had to go to using Ebony stain for a heavily creosoted look that I was after, even dark oak stain seemed a little too light.

 

[28ten]

Personally I would go with acrylics, they dont have to clog the grain. I have read some of the US articles saying that stain such as Silverwood can fade in UV. Stain is however easier to apply that acrylic and for large numbers that has to be a consideration.

 

[Dog Star]

... rather than soaking the sleepers in a bath I've laid out the sleepers on a Templot template using double sided sticky tape. I've then painted the individual sleepers on the template with the stain, so no bathing involved.

and

Stain is however easier to apply that acrylic and for large numbers that has to be a consideration.

Given that I was staining something like 1,ooo ply sleepers at the time.... dunking them in a bath of stain and then air drying got the messy task out of the way.

Personally I would go with acrylics, they dont have to clog the grain.

Please elaborate Cynric, my experience has not been successful where acrylic was used for the base colour and for the subsequent weathering.

regards, Graham

 

[adrian]

and
Given that I was staining something like 1,ooo ply sleepers at the time.... dunking them in a bath of stain and then air drying got the messy task out of the way.

Fair enough with that number, it was just painting them in-situ on the template avoided the messy bit completely. IMHO.

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Depending on the type of timber the sleepers are made of will sometimes make a difference to the colour. Pine or lime for instance may look different after recieving the same colour stain.

I have favoured the bath method for staining to some extent there is less waste of the stain.


ATB, Col

 

[28ten]

Please elaborate Cynric, my experience has not been successful where acrylic was used for the base colour and for the subsequent weathering.

regards, Graham

I find Vallejo thinned with water and their own retarder works well. but it isnt practical if you are doing 1000 at a time

 

[3 LINK]

Martyn, an advantage of spirit stain is that the solution does not clog the grain - I think that any paint effect is going to hide the timber grain to some extent. If you are likely to make the Basingstoke show in March then I can take some samples for you to inspect.

Hi Graham,

I have never been to the Basingstoke show before and being that it's not to far away that would be great, I look forward to seeing your good self and the samples then .

ATB, Martyn.

 

[BrushType4]

We have the same idea.

I shall do something on chairs, similar to the sleepers and timbers post, as soon as I have checked a couple of queries about what prototypes are represented by the individual suppliers.

Graham

Graham, How are you getting on with this?

To kick this off;

Peco do 7mm pandrol clips for code 143 flat bottom. Thanks Col for letting me know that.

 

[Jim S-W]

Hi graham

You have missed plastic from exactoscale and peco (individually)

Also ply from the scalefour society

Hth

Jim

 

[Dog Star]

Thank you Jim... no doubt that I have missed other things so please keep posting.