The GER locoworks, modifying the David Andrews 'Claughton' kit to S7

[john lewsey]

Thank you
John

 

[mickoo]

Neat solution to tender flares, to date I have actively kept at arms length any interest in models where they involve tender flares but that little solution is neat and handy.

I think I also need to learn how to anneal properly, the last piece I did turned to butter so I cold roll and form all of my stuff at present. Can one harden brass after it has been annealed and formed to shape?

Nice barn conversion, it's almost a shame to put a railway in there LOL

 

[Locomodels]

I think I also need to learn how to anneal properly, the last piece I did turned to butter so I cold roll and form all of my stuff at present. Can one harden brass after it has been annealed and formed to shape?

Nice barn conversion, it's almost a shame to put a railway in there LOL

Annealing brass is fairly easy, just don't get it too hot. In the thinner gauges that we generally work in, I find that getting it to a dull red is good enough, Brass work-hardens so as you form it it begins to get harder, this process continues with ageing. Although I do not know the exact details I feel sure that Steph Dale can give you chapter and verse on it.

As to the barn, our dog, an Italien Greyhound, tends to agree with you. Too nice a space to fill up with anything, much better to chase balls in.

 

[Steph Dale]

Can one harden brass after it has been annealed and formed to shape?

Yep; as Paul says you can work it. One other trick is to leave it a while on a south-facing window sill; the diurnal cycling will re-harden the material quite effectively, but it might take a week or two!

Although I do not know the exact details I feel sure that Steph Dale can give you chapter and verse on it.

Perhaps not quite chapter and verse, but certainly in a little more detail! However, it's more the application that I think we're interested in here...

Steph

 

[mickoo]

One other trick is to leave it a while on a south-facing window sill; the diurnal cycling will re-harden the material quite effectively, but it might take a week or two!
Steph

I had heard that before and thought it an old wives tale, yet the piece I trialled with seemed to be harder; but then after a few weeks I couldn't remember how soft it was in the first place LOL

Thanks for the tips chaps

 

[Len Cattley]

That flare looks easier to form than Guy Williams showed in his book. A great piece of engineering Paul.

Len

 

[Locomodels]

Progress is still being made but nothing of interest to report. Just soldering bits together, like brake shoes and hangers.


However here is something that I did earlier.

This is how I incorporated Colin’s (Eastsidepilot) side control into the bogie. As provided in the kit there is no suspension, no side control and even the spring that is supposed to keep the bogie on the track was too short. So it did nothing at all.

Firstly I did not have any square tube of the right size and getting it sent from the UK was dismissed as too costly, also I hate the delay when I want to get something done. So I machined some angle from solid on the mill. Then soldered it up so that it became a square tube. Naturally I had to machine the cube to fit inside the tube too.

In Colin’s thread the stretcher on the bogie was at the top and the tube fitted below it, with the pivot pin holding it all in place. The Claughton bogie has the stretcher fitted in the mid position, so I had to cut a slot in it to accommodate the tube. Plus I had to add a top stretcher for the tube to bear upon. To make sure that everything stayed in place I fitted two small bolts to hold the tube against the top stretcher. As this mod added depth below the original stretcher a new pivot pin was required.



When assembling the bogie, pivot pin and spring to the loco frames, I considered that there was a risk that the spring could catch in the slot that allowed the side control springing to work. The solution was a thick collar for the spring to bear on. This had the added advantage of adjusting the compression on the spring so that it actually did some work this time.


Until the loco is running properly it is not possible to test the springing for effectiveness, but I think it is somewhere near and can be adjusted with a thicker, or thinner, collar.

I know how much you like plenty of pictures, so there you are. They are actually fairly self explanatory. So a big thank you to Colin for his method.

 

[Locomodels]

Yep; as Paul says you can work it. One other trick is to leave it a while on a south-facing window sill; the diurnal cycling will re-harden the material quite effectively, but it might take a week or two!

As an aside, I came across the piece of annealed brass that I had made the corner flares from,it was lurking in the chaos that I call my 'tidy' work bench. Although the window is basically south facing, the brass was some way from it. It is still quite soft. It has been there for maybe 10 to 12 weeks. Perhaps putting it in hot water and then in the fridge, over a period of several weeks might work. Particularly as it is quite autumnal round here these days. But then again it might not be temperature but uv light.

 

[oldravendale]

This is how I incorporated Colin’s (Eastsidepilot) side control into the bogie. As provided in the kit there is no suspension, no side control and even the spring that is supposed to keep the bogie on the track was too short. So it did nothing at all.

I did something similar on my Oakville Black 5. (Not identical but it achieved the same ends).

The only problem I had was that the vertical spring was rather too strong and had a tendency to lift the front driving wheels off the track. (Problem identified by Steph, but as you are already aware, he taught me all I know.) I tried two or three springs of reducing strength and solved the problem. The side control works very well.

Brian

 

[Steph Dale]

To be fair Dad, at least three of us had 'suggestions' on the Black 5. Thankfully you managed to choose the right advice from the selection offered!
Steph

 

[John D]

Recently I have been working on the tender body, this has a flared top and corners. DA provides a half etched strip for the flare with slotted ‘fingers’ for the flare at the corners. He says to fill the fingers with solder after forming the flare and file it to shape. Now I do not find this sort of exercise easy in the first place, but it is achievable with care. But how do you then solder an upstand on to the whole thing, including the soldered corners. It did not take me long to realise that this method would result in tears, so I decided to form some flared corners from brass and fit them into the flared sides and end.

Sorry being a bit late in the day spotting this thread......but having built a few of DA's LNW tenders I've not had any problems with the 'fingers' method of the flare corners. Admittedly the solder infill does require a fair amount of fettling up to get a neat end result , the etched 'flare' being soldered to the tender side before forming it round . This way of doing it is not new , I spoke to Geoff Holt at a LNW Soc. 'Do' on the very subject more than a few years back and he kindly sent me a sketch at the time showing this method of doing it and using plumbers solder to fill in between the fingers , he reckoned it was more 'elastic' in filling gaps. All that said, I may well have to brush up on my metal forming skills and have a go with annealed brass as shown .

 

[Locomodels]

but having built a few of DA's LNW tenders I've not had any problems with the 'fingers' method of the flare corners. Admittedly the solder infill does require a fair amount of fettling up to get a neat end result , the etched 'flare' being soldered to the tender side before forming it round . This way of doing it is not new , I spoke to Geoff Holt at a LNW Soc. 'Do' on the very subject more than a few years back and he kindly sent me a sketch at the time showing this method of doing it and using plumbers solder to fill in between the fingers , he reckoned it was more 'elastic' in filling gaps. All that said, I may well have to brush up on my metal forming skills and have a go with annealed brass as shown .

John,
You are quite correct it is not a new method, indeed Guy Williams shows how to do in in his 'The 4mm Locomotive' book. To me it is a compromise method and time consuming. In this case I thought that the formed brass was the best solution as the inside face of the flare is also visible. Had it been covered with coal one might have got away with it.

Do try the forming method for yourself, it really is surprisingly easy. And remember if you do screw up, you can always fill it with solder.

 

[John D]

It is indeed the inside edge of the corner that's a problem to tidy up the solder , and is where your formed brass Inserts score .
I did have,many moons ago, a kit for a 7mm ' George V' (not an Andrews one) which had lost wax brass castings for these flare corners....sadly they were the best part of the kit

 

[Locomodels]

It is indeed the inside edge of the corner that's a problem to tidy up the solder , and is where your formed brass Inserts score .






Add in the fact that the brass was half etched, and only about 10thou thick. So the problem was magnified.