The GER locoworks, modifying the David Andrews 'Claughton' kit to S7

[Locomodels]

This will be, hopefully, a straight forward build, once the modifications for conversion to S7 are taken care of. It will not be a blow-by-blow account of the entire build, it is only the changes needed or problems encountered in building it in S7 that will feature here.

So off we go. The crank axle is already made as you know, turning the wheels to suit, making new frame spacers and modifying other parts to fit the wider frames are all that is required, he says optimistically.

The wheels will be done soon, these are straight forward and need not trouble us here.

Therefore making new, wider, spacers is the first job to tackle. Making the crank axle was just a time filler whilst I thought about this over the last couple of weeks. The conclusion that I came to was, I believe, the simplest method of achieving this.

Basically it was to cut a strip of 0.028” n/s to the required width, which in this case was 29mm. and then copy the existing narrow gauge spacers onto the wider strip. My simple method of doing this was to cut a piece of the strip to the required length, matching the existing item. Clamp the narrow piece to the wider piece, lining them up along one side. And then file the edge copying the position of the tabs. I should, of course, have mentioned that David Andrews uses the slot and tab method of part location.

I clamped the pieces together with a toolmakers type clamp, held the parts in the vice, using aluminium vice jaws and proceeded to file the edge to match. This is surprisingly easy as it only takes relatively few file strokes to achieve this as we only have to remove 28 thou. I used a ‘safe edge’ file to stop cutting into the tabs. As I filed I watched for the file to just touch the cusp of the etched part that I was copying. Repeat this on the other side and then de-burr the new part. See picture below ( I hope).




View attachment 16958


Some of the parts had holes in them, and etched positions for nuts which I will not be replicating, plus fold lines.

To get the holes in the correct position I scribed a centre line on the new part and clamped the pattern centrally over it. Scribed round the holes and marked the position of the fold lines, if any. Centre spotted for the holes, using my invaluable and old ‘Optical Centre Punch’ which I must have had for around forty years. If you don’t have one of these I respectfully suggest that you get one, you will never ever regret it. It is one of those tools, when you have one, that you can’t understand how you ever managed without it.






The fold lines are something else and I have made a couple of tools for it. These I have also had for some time. They cannot be bought so you have to make them yourself. The larger one was made from 1/2” x 1/8” gauge plate, filed up hardened, tempered and honed with a stone. The small one is Silver Steel rod, heated and hammered to shape, filed and again hardened and tempered and honed. This might seem like a lot of work, but it is surprisingly easy and the tools will last you a lifetime.




Alternatively you can scribe deeply and file the fold lines with Swiss needle files, triangular and square do a good job. If you have a milling machine you could also mill them with a tiny, say 1.5mm dia ball nosed cutter.

One of the new spacers in the picture has been cut with my home made gravers. I used the mill for the others.

In the following picture you can see, on the left, the new wider spacers that I have made. These are next to the original narrower ones. The items on the right are all the pieces that will need modification to fit the new wider frames.

These are the cylinders, the motion plates, both inside and outside, and some footplate brackets. Apart from the brass cylinder plate all the others are laminated from two 0.028” thick etchings.



So all the required new S7 frame spacers are now made. Total time, including cutting all the parts from the frets, filing away the tabs, and cleaning up the edges was around 8 hours. Not all at once but spread over two days.

Well that is the present state of play.

My next job will be to assemble all the parts to the frames and fit the axles. This will be bog standard procedure.

The next ‘interesting’ episode will be fitting the cylinders, motion brackets and slide bars. See you then.

 

[Steph Dale]

The fold lines are something else and I have made a couple of tools for it. These I have also had for some time. They cannot be bought so you have to make them yourself. The larger one was made from 1/2” x 1/8” gauge plate, filed up hardened, tempered and honed with a stone. The small one is Silver Steel rod, heated and hammered to shape, filed and again hardened and tempered and honed. This might seem like a lot of work, but it is surprisingly easy and the tools will last you a lifetime.

I respectfully submit that they can be bought; I have them in my toolbox:
http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp?CATEGORY=SPECIALTY+KNIFE+BLADES&TYPE=PRODUCT&PARTNUMBER=11-942&SDesc=Scoring+Knife+Blade

and:
http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/74091scriber2/index.htm

An odd rub on an oil stone or emery paper serves to keep them in order until the blades need replacing....

Steph

 

[Locomodels]

I respectfully submit that they can be bought; I have them in my toolbox:

An odd rub on an oil stone or emery paper serves to keep them in order until the blades need replacing....

Steph

Hi Steph,

Yes I agree that tools like this are available, these are like the small tool in my picture, but I have not found them to be so effective on metal. I do have similar blades myself and have used them on Formica and Plastikard, for which they are ideal. However my homemade large one cuts a flat bottom'd groove which is more like the etched ones. Sorry that this was not evident in the picture. Anyhow, they were not available when I made mine absolutely ages ago. Don't forget you are speaking to a senior citizen, though thankfully I don't think that I act like one.

 

[Heather Kay]

Can I just say...

Paul, I am pleased to see you seem to have taken up a long-standing challenge from a certain party.

 

[adrian]

Therefore making new, wider, spacers is the first job to tackle. Making the crank axle was just a time filler whilst I thought about this over the last couple of weeks. The conclusion that I came to was, I believe, the simplest method of achieving this.

[snip]

The next ‘interesting’ episode will be fitting the cylinders, motion brackets and slide bars. See you then.

I'll be following this closely - I've just treated myself to a MOK 8F which will probably require the same sort of treatment for S7.

 

[Dog Star]

Don't forget you are speaking to a senior citizen, though thankfully I don't think that I act like one.

You know, I quite like that idea... my Good Lady has been telling me for years that I never grow up whilst my Sons have been saying for years that they are glad that I have not .

At the end of the day the only one whose opinion matters is the local Doc... and the last time I went to see him I was asked to produce a birth certificate as he did not believe I was young enough to retire.

regards, Graham

 

[Dog Star]

Can I just say...

Paul, I am pleased to see you seem to have taken up a long-standing challenge from a certain party.

Ssssshhhh, we do not want someone to move the goalposts now, do we.

 

[Dog Star]

I'll be following this closely - I've just treated myself to a MOK 8F which will probably require the same sort of treatment for S7.

Just do not ask for advice on building the Scorpio Steam Railmotor bogie in S7... Paul and I have lost too much sleep over that one.

 

[adrian]

You know, I quite like that idea... my Good Lady has been telling me for years that I never grow up whilst my Sons have been saying for years that they are glad that I have not .

As I keep saying to my lads "growing old is mandatory - growing up is optional!"

 

[Steph Dale]

Hi Steph,

Yes I agree that tools like this are available, these are like the small tool in my picture, but I have not found them to be so effective on metal. I do have similar blades myself and have used them on Formica and Plastikard, for which they are ideal. However my homemade large one cuts a flat bottom'd groove which is more like the etched ones. Sorry that this was not evident in the picture. Anyhow, they were not available when I made mine absolutely ages ago. Don't forget you are speaking to a senior citizen, though thankfully I don't think that I act like one.

Aah - fair enough. I haven't had too much trouble using the Tamiya one to start grooves in brass. I wonder if these days I wouldn't get the parts etched, but I can certainly now understand how a tool such as you describe would be a handy thing to have.

Steph

 

[Locomodels]

I'll be following this closely - I've just treated myself to a MOK 8F which will probably require the same sort of treatment for S7.

Adrian,

As you might remember I once started an MOK 4MT tank. Although this was the S7 version, there are still small items that need attention. Though all the castings were especially made for S7 you might find some items on the 8F especially difficult to modify. How are your pattern making skills ? You will find that it isn't just the spacers you need to change. Bon chance !

 

[Locomodels]

I wonder if these days I wouldn't get the parts etched, but I can certainly now understand how a tool such as you describe would be a handy thing to have.

Steph

Steph,

Yes that is a good solution and perhaps the ideal but it is still, in my opinion, rather more work, and significantly more expensive. Mine is now done and the frames can be assembled. (Remember time is not on my side.)
However you could sell such a kit of spacers on to other builders to recover the costs, as many people would not wish to do it as I have done. Something like that might help S7 to become even more popular as the potential problems have already been solved.

 

[Dog Star]

I wonder if these days I wouldn't get the parts etched, but I can certainly now understand how a tool such as you describe would be a handy thing to have.

Yes that is a good solution and perhaps the ideal but it is still, in my opinion, rather more work, and significantly more expensive.

However you could sell such a kit of spacers on to other builders to recover the costs, as many people would not wish to do it as I have done. Something like that might help S7 to become even more popular as the potential problems have already been solved.

With the number of members of the S7 Group as members of this forum, seems to me that there is mileage in this discussion and if those who have the competence to prepare the drawings for etching might care to gift the rights to the S7 Group then there is an opening to serve existing S7 modellers and potential recruits.

regards, Graham

 

[Heather Kay]

As I keep saying to my lads "growing old is mandatory - growing up is optional!"

We do not cease to play because we grow old. We grow old because we cease to play. (George Bernard Shaw)

 

[Heather Kay]

With the number of members of the S7 Group as members of this forum, seems to me that there is mileage in this discussion and if those who have the competence to prepare the drawings for etching might care to gift the rights to the S7 Group then there is an opening to serve existing S7 modellers and potential recruits.

As a former member of the S7 committee, I seem to recall this subject came up for discussion on numerous occasions. It's a worthy idea, but fraught with difficulties. For example, does every kit manufacturer use the same thickness of material for their frame etches? How many spacers would need to be created at fractions of a millimetre difference in order to cover every eventuality.

I think you can begin to see the reason why such a component hasn't been produced by the S7 Group to date.

 

[Locomodels]

It's a worthy idea, but fraught with difficulties. For example, does every kit manufacturer use the same thickness of material for their frame etches? How many spacers would need to be created at fractions of a millimetre difference in order to cover every eventuality.



Heather,

It is indeed a worthy idea. As I see it this would be done each time an individual, such as Steph or myself, tackle the modification of a specific kit. These would then match the individual specification of each kit. In my view it is not something that could be produced to cover a number of different kits.

 

[Locomodels]

A surprising number of Thunderers seem to loose, or perhaps mislay, their MoJo's. That is something that I have never been troubled with, my problem is too many jobs and too little time to do them all. For the last few months restoring our watermill has taken priority over everything else, the reason is time again or the shortness of it. It is now about sixteen years since we welcomed the 'mill into the family and we would like to get it habitable so we can actually move into it, before old age and decay sets in. With us you will understand, not the 'mill, that was decayed when we bought it.

However I have been given permission to do a little modelling, so have been working on the next item that needs modification to suit S7, this is the bogie, and I will be reporting on the progress tomorrow. Then there is the tender to think about, but I do not expect that to cause too many problems.

Now I know how much you all like pictures so here is one of the bogie parts, all lovely nickle-silver.

a demain.

 

[Locomodels]

Don't know what happened there, here it is now.

 

[Steph Dale]

Paul,

I've got my mug of tea and safety specs. Looking forward to the next instalment...

It would appear that you're not planning to compensate (or split-axle) the bogie. My experience in P4 leads me to believe it's a bit unnecessary on such a short wheelbase, I take it you've come to much the same conclusion?

Steph

 

[Locomodels]

So we get to the bogie. As previously stated this is to be an out of the box build, according to the kit instructions, with details of any alterations needed for S7.

In this respect the instructions are a little vague and in some respects totally silent.

Pix. 1 & 2 Diagram and instructions.


(Sorry the pictures are all at the bottom, though I thought that I had put them in the right places. Have to try harder next time.)

After filing the cusp from all the parts the bushes are soldered to the beam in the flat, then folded as instructed. This is where I encountered the first problem.

Instruction 27 says solder the compensating beam to the outside of the bogie frame. The bearing bushes project from the back, should these be filed off flush with the back of the compensating beam? No mention is made on that’s so I decided not to and soldered the bushes to the bogie frame.

One other small point, the dummy spring does not fit into the compensating beam, so that the locating holes are in alignment. So I filed a slot in the top of the spring until it did. According to the works drawing, in my main reference book, Historical Locomotive Monographs No3, Claughton and Patriot 4-6-0s, by G.Toms and R.J.Essery, published by Wild Swan, the spring seems much more prominent above the beam. Never mind this is not a scratch build and that is what came out of the box.

Pix 3 Works drg.

So now we finally get to the one difference for S7, the bogie spacer B4. In fact this does not need to be changed for it to run on S7 track, just a few packing washers on the axles would do. But that would be cheating wouldn’t it? The same method as before was used to make the wider plate, i.e. cut a piece the correct width and use the existing part as a template for cutting the location tabs on each side. This was duly done and the whole thing soldered up. The only problem with that is because you have already soldered the beams to the bogie sides the tab and slots are part hidden. This makes them a pain, if not impossible to clean up as part of them is totally inaccessible behind the beam. So what to do? Answer, unsolder the whole thing and start again but in a different order.

Pix 4,5,6 etc.

A couple of other small points.

Instruction 28, bracket part B3, there are no rivets on it !

The other item is part B6, described as a ‘joggle’ in the parts list. Now how can a flat square of metal be a joggle? Well by deduction and perusal of photographs, after seeing where it is fitted, it is obvious, although the drawings in this instance where no help. The compensating beam is joggled to make room for the spring buckle. And part B6 is there to represent this, so rather than leave it so angular I filed an angle on the sides before soldering it in place.

The small piece of track it is standing on is one panel from the 'PW Master' Mr Dog Star himself and is 1895 LSWR.

As usual it all takes rather longer than it should for such a simple item but at least it now looks the part.

There is one other item that gets no mention in the instructions, how to fix the bogie to the locomotive frames. Again by deduction I looked for a pivot and spring in the parts list. One was mentioned but no sign of it in the diagrams. Also the bogie spacer has a hole in it in the centre with a half etch area to each side of it. You can see this in the picture with the brass pivot and spring. I guessed that this had to be cut out and filed, so that is exactly what I did as you can see. Although a little guidance in the instructions, would have been nice. You can see how a novice could run into trouble over a small detail like that. All for the want of a few words from the designer.

Incidentally the spring is too short so takes to load. I guess that I will have to find one that does the job.