What Is This OO Track?

[John_B]

I was recently given a OO micro layout. It was obviously a working layout at some time, but most of the working bits were removed and it was just used as a static diorama. I'm in the process of getting it working again, but amongst other problems I've discovered that the track is under gauge through one of the turnouts. It seems to me to be commercial track, so I can't see how this happened. Can anyone identify what make the track is, and make any suggestions on the easiest way to correct the gauge?

This is the turnout in question:


Here are a couple of close ups to help identify the track. It has code 75 bullhead rail:




This is a view of much of the layout, which is 5ft x 6.5in:

 

[76043]

Didn't SMP make a plastic turnout, just one type I think, smallish raduis? Might still be available via Marcway?
Tony

 

[76043]

L.H 36" POINT KIT PLASTIC BASED NICKEL SILVER

R.H 36" POINT KIT PLASTIC BASED NICKEL SILVER

Tony

 

[RichardG]

Yes, I'm sure these are the SMP plastic point kits. I can remember building a pair in the early 1980s.

 

[John_B]

Didn't SMP make a plastic turnout, just one type I think, smallish raduis? Might still be available via Marcway?
Tony

This is a comparison with SMP EM plain track that I bought about 10 years ago, that has totally different chairs. I wouldn't have thought the design would have changed, or be different between OO and EM versions. I've got copper clad points, so can't compare them.

 

[James]

They do look like SMP plastic point kits, I built a few in my teens, I rather liked them.

 

[John_B]

Did SMP track get retooled at some point with different chairs? I've found a photo of an SMP point (https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/gallery/2983/original/2983_021932_430000000.jpg) that matches what I've got, but the chairs are totally different to the SMP track I bought about 10 years ago. Then I zoomed in as far as I could on a blurry photo of the EM layout I built 50 years ago, and the plain track seems to match what's on this layout. So it does seem to be SMP.

Anyway, the big question is how I can fix the gauge narrowing. It's difficult to work on the layout as I have trouble getting my head inside it due to the proscenium arch, and I have to use a mirror to see what I'm doing on the back of the rail! This is supposed to be a quick project, not a total rebuild!

 

[Bill Campbell]

Hi John

It may be easier to give some advice if you could mark the parts of the turnout affected by gauge narrowing on a copy of the first photograph you posted.

The reason for asking is that it may be possible to partially rebuild the turnout by trimming off the moulded-in chairs and replace them with C&L chairs when replacing the rail to gauge.

Regards.

 

[John_B]

Hi John

It may be easier to give some advice if you could mark the parts of the turnout affected by gauge narrowing on a copy of the first photograph you posted.

The reason for asking is that it may be possible to partially rebuild the turnout by trimming off the moulded-in chairs and replace them with C&L chairs when replacing the rail to gauge.

Regards.

The two circled areas below. The full length of the switch rail, and the toe of this and the next point. The fuzzy bit arrowed is the massive overkill mains flex power feed! I've incorporated this into the new wiring, but could redo it if necessary. I'd been intending to fix the short piece by soldering the rail to a couple of brass screws or panel pins, and could do the same for the switch rail, as it's only 4 chairs.


I came across a topic on building one of these on RMweb (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/187337-building-an-smp-point-kit/), where most of the sleepers were replaced with copper clad ones! I'm wondering if the most practical solution is to replace just the affected sleepers with copper clad.

Another thought was to replace all the points with British Finescale A5 kits, but they're too long. The crossover might work, but the two points that are toe to toe would be too close. I'm not sure that just replacing this one would look right, and either way the two servos under the baseboard may be too close.

In the Templot forum topic I linked to above (https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/gallery/2983/original/2983_021932_430000000.jpg), Martin Wynn did a closely matching Templot plan, so I suppose I could 3D print a new base for it, but these options are moving away from this being a quick layout, and risk becoming a bigger project than starting from a bare baseboard!

 

[simond]

I’d suspect the stock rail has pushed the blade inboard. Or the straight stockrail wants to move outboard a bit…

 

[RichardG]

This is a comparison with SMP EM plain track that I bought about 10 years ago, that has totally different chairs. I wouldn't have thought the design would have changed, or be different between OO and EM versions. I've got copper clad points, so can't compare them.

I have some SMP type J (00) bought about 10 or 11 years ago, and the chairs are like those on your EM track of similar vintage.

The way I remember things, SMP track was unavailable for a while because the moulds wore out. The earlier version (late 70s / early 80s) had simpler chairs, like those on your problem point.

 

[John_B]

I’d suspect the stock rail has pushed the blade inboard. Or the straight stockrail wants to move outboard a bit…

The stock rail is almost perfectly straight. The switch rail is pretty good, but things go a bit off around the crossing. The flangeway gaps are massive, and some rails a bit out of line! I can't test run anything to see what works, and what doesn't, because everything falls off on the out of gauge bits we're discussing!

It also doesn't help that the only spare power supply I have is now powering my broadband router after a storm last week, so I can't operate the points until the postman arrives with a parcel from CPC!

 

[Bill Campbell]

Hi John

Based on the information in your last post my "best" solution would be to rebuild/replicate the turnout in-situ with new rail and C&L components.

Second best would be to rebuild/replicate with copperclad timbering and new rail. Given the higher cost of copperclad these days there may not be much difference in price.

I have suggested new rail as, from experience, it will be very difficult to lift the existing rail in reusable condition.

Good luck whatever you decide.

 

[76043]

Surely the easiest solution is to see if the current SMP plastic turnout is the same as the one you have, then to replace like for like if it is? The sleeper spacing might enable you to rip it out and drop a new one in? Maybe the new and old versions had the same sleeper spacing?

Marcway might be able to supply a template to check if you ask.
Tony

 

[Overseer]

I remembered I had one of these on a shelf, pulled off a layout I was building around 1980 when aged 13 or so. Measuring the gauge it is under gauge in both routes in the same place as @John_B 's. The layout was never finished mainly due to problems with the SMP track, or really problems with mismatching standards between track and wheels. The Mainline J72 ran ok on the track but when the Airfix 14xx arrived with oversize flanges it didn't cope at all, bit of a problem when the layout was meant to be Ashburton. I learnt a lot from the layout, improved my skills and realised the critical importance of matching wheel and track standards, and that OO wasn't for me.

I think I would try inserting some small brass screws or nails alongside one of the rails, push the rail out to gauge and solder the rail to the screws. Replacing the whole turnout will be difficult without major damage and matching the thin sleepers and small rail with current products would not be easy.

 

[stuartp]

I remember reading once (and if I remember where I'll post it) a reasonably eminent modeller, possibly Iain Rice, solving this problem on Ratio or similar moulded track by whacking the plastic or fibre sleepers with a wide but blunt chisel just inboard of the rail fastenings. The resulting score mark was explained as 'derailment flange marks'.

I have not tried this idea myself ...

 

[AJC]

I remember reading once (and if I remember where I'll post it) a reasonably eminent modeller, possibly Iain Rice, solving this problem on Ratio or similar moulded track by whacking the plastic or fibre sleepers with a wide but blunt chisel just inboard of the rail fastenings. The resulting score mark was explained as 'derailment flange marks'.

I have not tried this idea myself ...

It was Chris Pendlenton on North Shields (I think the Ratio track was nylon or similar?). That's in P4 of course - Yeovil MRG used a fair amount of those P4 bases on South Junction (EM) which gave gauge widening in that standard - it works! Taking my digital callipers to the Ratio EM track that serves as my bench test track, the gauge on that comes out at 17.92mm.

Adam

 

[Fitzroy]

How much is it actually under gauge by?????? Could tickling it up with a flat bastard fix the issue?

 

[Simon H]

I bought several of these a few years ago, when a local (Kent) model shop was selling everything half price prior to closing down, mostly because 15 year old me made a right pig's ear of one in 1980 and I wanted to see whether late 50s me could make a better job of it!
Short answer is yes, I could, though the modern kits use a different plastic (the old one had a sort of mottled effect, and smelt strongly of burning PVC when the soldering iron got anywhere near it) and I'm sure both points and plain track have been retooled at least once as the chairs etc. are much better defined.
Despite my risible efforts, the one built back then did function, sort of, but I found that things like Lima diesels didn't like it. What I can't figure out is why your example has the gauge narrowing issue; I wonder whether the switch rail has been tilted inwards during assembly or even track cleaning?
I'll have to check the gauge on the one I've built, though I'm sure (modern) 00 stock pushed through it OK.
Looks like a nice little layout, good luck with refurbishing it!
Simon .
PS I remember buying the original kit from Kemp Models' shop in Queens Road Quadrant, Brighton...having travelled over in a 2-HAP at least partially on bullhead track. What an Aladdin's cave that shop was, especially for a 15 year old!

 

[martin_wynne]

The two circled areas below. The full length of the switch rail, and the toe of this and the next point. The fuzzy bit arrowed is the massive overkill mains flex power feed! I've incorporated this into the new wiring, but could redo it if necessary. I'd been intending to fix the short piece by soldering the rail to a couple of brass screws or panel pins, and could do the same for the switch rail, as it's only 4 chairs.
View attachment 255795

I came across a topic on building one of these on RMweb (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/187337-building-an-smp-point-kit/), where most of the sleepers were replaced with copper clad ones! I'm wondering if the most practical solution is to replace just the affected sleepers with copper clad.

Another thought was to replace all the points with British Finescale A5 kits, but they're too long. The crossover might work, but the two points that are toe to toe would be too close. I'm not sure that just replacing this one would look right, and either way the two servos under the baseboard may be too close.

In the Templot forum topic I linked to above (https://85a.uk/templot/archive/topics/gallery/2983/original/2983_021932_430000000.jpg), Martin Wynn did a closely matching Templot plan, so I suppose I could 3D print a new base for it, but these options are moving away from this being a quick layout, and risk becoming a bigger project than starting from a bare baseboard!

@John_B

Hi John,

I suggest adjusting the gauge on the main road straight stock rail.

Drill a 1/8" hole through each timber inboard of the rail. Bang in a suitable nail to expand the timber. Pull out the nail and fill the hole with filler.

Martin.