3D Printing - whether to buy, what to buy and how to use it?

Big Train James

Western Thunderer
Simon,
It appears that the software/printer compatibility issue has been put to rest now, but in looking back I find it interesting how often people seem to think it was an Elegoo issue, rather than a Chitu Systems issue. The reality is that any printer employing the latest Chitu boards, and there are a lot of them from many of the common manufacturers, would have faced the same obstacle with the print files. I have no idea why Elegoo, and the Mars 3 in particular, seem to be the printer most often associated with the problem. Perhaps the Mars 3 was the first newly released printer with the locked board implementation? Neither here nor there anymore, hopefully. I am about to download Lychee and give it twirl, so I will confirm that the files work with the Mars 3.

I'll be curious to see if the yearly cost for Chitubox Pro drops in the future. The board locking created a proprietary situation, without it I have a hard time imagining users paying $169 per year when Lychee Pro can be had for $73 per year instead. It's interesting to note the Lychee Pro yearly price. That figure is more than double what it was a bit over a year ago. Anyway, I'll give Lychee a try in one form or another.

Rob,
My Chitubox Pro says what it is in the top left corner of the window. As to utilization, I took another look last night at the specs for the Pro version versus the free version. There is a great deal more capability with the Pro version, but an awful lot of it is extra bells and whistles that I most likely won't ever need to use. But it is certainly a "your mileage may vary" situation, I happen to be in a position where I don't necessary have need for the extra features.

My primary software for modeling is Autocad, I do a small amount with Rhino (should do more). I am planning to migrate some work to Solidworks in the near future, as I'm looking for more robust surface modeling capabilities. Whether Autocad or Solidworks, any 3d model I export for printing is a solid model rather than a surface model. As a result, it is unusual for me to encounter repair issues like reversed normals, holes, extra faces, etc, those are more often found in surface models.

Chitubox Pro supports a pretty long list of file types from various 3d modeling software, so that models can be imported in their native formats. I don't benefit much from this, since I have access to software that allows me to export stl files, and I only use one or two softwares anyway. I will never take advantage of the model prep commands, as my philosophy is to do modeling in a modeling program, where it should happen. A lot of the other pro features might be more worthwhile to hard(er)core or commercial users, while some of them are nice I probably won't have much reason to use them.

In short, there are a lot of features that might appeal to other users, but don't have much impact on how I personally use the program. Which is fair enough. Also, it should be noted that the Pro version of Lychee is much the same. I will trial the Pro version of Lychee, and then decide if I need the Pro version of either software.

What I suspect will happen, is that I will discover one or two commands or utilities that I find exceptionally useful, but are not available in the free version. Then I will eventually give in and pay for the pro version just to access those particular features. This happened to me years ago with early versions of Autocad, before real-time zoom and pan were available with scroll wheel mice. I used the Zoom Dynamic command heavily to navigate around drawings, as I could use it transparently while in other commands. When I looked at getting Autocad LT because of the lower cost, I discovered that it didn't support Zoom Dynamic. It was such an integral part of how I used Autocad, that I paid for the full version so I had access to it. :rolleyes:

Jim
 

Big Train James

Western Thunderer
Jim,
Agree that the Chitubox Pro (or Free, by the looks of things) UI is problematic, it does some things very differeently than I would expect. Also, developing software for Windows isn't a new frontier these days, could they not have made the program function like the gazillions of other modern Windows software?

I like this youtube video by Thomas Sanladerer, where he discusses the relative merits of Chitubox Pro versus Free. I think he very neatly sums up how I feel about Pro, and identifies many of the same issues that I have experienced in the brief time that I've been using it. And perhaps best of all, in his way of speaking, he pronounces Chitubox as ":shit:-ubox", which seems entirely appropriate in my opinion. :p
 

simond

Western Thunderer
I’m a little surprised that the slicers generate proprietary files, I expected (some five pages ago) that it would be a specific implementation of g-code, as the rest of the cad-cam world, but apparently not.

I’m very wary of being locked in to a software that becomes unsupported.

as to why Elegoo, I guess I didn’t know how widespread the Chitubox implementation was.

And, of course, when Ping says “Now!”, nothing will work any more…
 

Rob R

Western Thunderer
Jim, I am running the "basic" chitubox and drawing everything in TinkerCad (at the moment) which seems to make everything a solid whether you want it or not. The only time I needed to repair a file was something from Thingiverse which was just junk so I didn't bother, working on the basis it was probably quicker to draw it from scratch than mess around with someone elses poor design.
Looking at the differences between pro and basic, both chitubox and lychee I see very little in the pro versions that I "need" (rather than "want") for my current usage.
Rob
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
I'd run with 1.0 mm² cables, no idea what that'd be in US gauge terms.

1.0 mm which is rated at 15 amps but I'd doubt you'd need that much current capacity.

We can work out the current rating for the heater, you need to know the power (W) and the voltage (V) and apply the following formulae W/V = A

Thus 100W/12V = 8.3A, this is just under the 10A rating of the power supply so all good there.

It looks like the parts already come with cables, they should be sized for the maximum rating of the device, in the case of the heater probably already fitted with 1.0 mm² cables.

The link for the controller doesn't work, but as long as it's rated for 10A or above then you'll be fine for the controller and with 1.0 mm² cable, there maybe enough spare on the heater to trim back and use for the power supply to controller side of the circuit.

If you want to be super cautious then up rate your cable to 1.5 mm², that'll give you 15A. However, you may find that any terminals on the controller or fan may not be big enough to accept a larger cable, two reasons, cost and it stops idiots putting in cables too big for the job.

Be aware though, the current ratings are for the heater DC side, as voltage increases then current drops, so 10A on the heater side becomes 1/10th of the AC input side in this case, apologies if this is egg sucking but it can be confusing when the heater draws 8A but measured at the wall socket you only see 0.8A.
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
I've received my components to fabricate a heated printer enclosure. Quick question before I proceed though, can anybody recommend a wire gauge to connect everything together with? I have a 12v fan heater, and a 120v/10a power supply, with a 12v digital controller. Any advice would be appreciated. I don't want to set anything on fire!:eek:

When I built my setup with the same rating of components I stripped down a length of flexible mains cable suitable for 3kW usage at 230V mains and used the inners to connect power supply to temperature controller and fan heater - far less expensive than having to purchase lengths of individual cables.

Jim.
 

simond

Western Thunderer
I guess any advice should be tempered with disclaimers about ensuring that the installation complies with local requirements and regulations, and be properly and competently installed, as it’s just as possible to burn your house down with 12V wiring as it is with mains, but having said that:

as long as the wire cross section is big enough,
the insulation is thick enough, and rated for the temperature it will see,
you’re not using solid core wire where it needs to flex,
you make sure the connectors are tight,
and it’s not lying across anything that might cut or melt the insulation

then almost any available wire will do.

using Mick’s numbers, at the low voltage side, you need around 8.3 A @ 12V. I’d probably aim rate around 1.5 to 2 x the required current to feel comfortable.

UK mains cable is rated for continuous 13A, (3kW), I’d probably use that, but it might be hot where you live.

I presume mains cables in the US are rated for higher currents due to the lower voltage? If so, the wire from them should be ok.

if in doubt, consult… etc.
 

Big Train James

Western Thunderer
Thanks for the replies. I know generally about common wire sizes here in the States, for regular house wiring and similar. I wasn't sure if wire gauges would be consistent for 12v systems as well. 14 Gauge (1.63mm) wire is usually specified for 15amp serrvice here, and 12 gauge (2.06mm) specified for 20amp circuits. Most house wiring here, for common things like outlets and lights, is designed and protected for 15amps. There will be the odd 20amp circuit for general use, and then either larger breakers or paired smaller breakers for the big ticket items like cooking range, air conditioner and clothes dryer.

However, in the end, it's all much ado about nothing, because as Mick suggests, the wiring is all included. :oops: I still appreciate everybody's willingness to help though.:thumbs:

I pasted the wrong link for the controller, so I've edited the previous post to correct that. I don't think the information will change the outcome of this discussion, but it might be useful for others in the future.

For the enclosure, I'm considering using these storage tubs.

stacker 4 gallon.jpegstacker 7p5 gallon.jpeg
They are a modular design, these two have the same foot print so I can flip the taller unit upside to act as a lid, and it will sit nicely on top of the smaller tub. Together they will be tall enough to fit the printer. To get the necessary height with other tubs either requires going to a really large volume tub, or turning the tub on its side. The tub on its side presents the issue of the draft angle as the tubs typically taper from top to bottom so they can nest inside each other. The pictures show opaque black, which is the color du jour, but the colors change occasionally. In the past the tubs were clear, and I have a tall clear tub for the lid, which I think is ideal.

The other advantage is that the base tub will be a good safeguard against a fep film failure and leaked resin. I wish its height was less, I'd like it to be more like a tray than tub, but this is what is readily available where the different size tubs share length and width dimensions.
 

Boyblunder

Western Thunderer
Having read the very useful tips contributed to Simon’s question I built a heated cabinet for my large Elegoo Saturn purchased in December taking a slightly different approach. I wanted to run it in my rather chilly garage to keep the smell out of the house and it is too big for a single plastic storage box, I didn’t think of the 2-box solution until I read James' post yesterday. Fire was also a concern so I chose to build it from polycarbonate twinwall roofing sheet which is Class 1 rated. The ambient temperature in my garage is often around 6-8C so I went for a 300 watt 230v version of the same PTR heater others have used to get more oomph: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08RB549MT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and a more expensive temperature controller: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B094FL4BVK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The mains operated version was chosen partly due to previous bad experience with a 24v power unit similar to those used by other contributors so it avoided that component. The thermostat has a WiFi connection and I am able to sit in the comfort of my lounge watching TV while keeping an eye on the temperature using my phone.

The box is very tall partly to allow the printer lid to be lifted off without opening the top of the box and partly so the hot air from the heater doesn’t blow straight onto the printer because I was concerned about it being hotter than the low voltage versions. It works very well and is designed to be folded up when not in use to save space.

Before making the cabinet I was not happy with the Elegoo Saturn, from the start the Elegoo test prints failed using their resin with recommended settings at the right temperature and ruined the FEP. No spares came with the printer so I had to buy spares and wait for delivery, when it arrived the FEP pack had only 3 in it instead of the 5 I paid for. To be fair Elegoo did send a replacement pack very quickly when I complained. The Elegoo method of levelling the build plate is very good but their instructions for tensioning the FEP are imprecise, searches on the web showed better ways from which it is clear the FEP on the Saturn needs to be much tighter than mine was when received from the factory. Zortrax Inkspire epoxy type resin was recommended as an improvement; initial prints were rather mediocre but after a bit of experimentation with settings I’m now very happy with the results. The resin has little smell, very little shrinkage and tougher than the standard Shapeways detail resins. Unfortunately having just got the thing working well when I switched it on this morning the fan motor started screaming its head off, so the return label has been printed and its bye-bye Elegoo Saturn!

Box 23-01-22.jpg
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Link to Jim’s 16T minerals

 

simond

Western Thunderer
a bit of fun. A 7mm version of a model 162 telephone from 1930 or so. it's about 5.5mm wide. I'm not claiming historical or dimensional accuracy here, as I drew it from photos and images in SIEMENS NEOPHONE & BPO TELEPHONE No. 162 whilst Madame was watching a French detective drama. A relaxing way of spending a Saturday evening...

If anyone wants to print it, I'll put up the STL file, if they are permitted attachments (question for @adrian )


1645915027627.png
 

Boyblunder

Western Thunderer
Simon, that article in the O-Scale Resource is excellent reading, I've learnt a few things and can also back up just about everything Dan is saying from my own recent experience. The Elegoo Saturn I bought before Christmas produced failure after failure whatever I did and eventually I realised it was faulty so sent it back. Then we had a debate about sharing a Formlabs 4 professional machine, I'm afraid I chickened out because the ongoing costs are way higher than I could justify for my own amateur efforts. I had another go at trying to source a replacement screen for the old Photon, sadly they seem to be finished as Jim found with his. Several people have good experiences with the Elegoo Mars Pro and I nearly ordered one but really wanted to try a 4K printer. Then I saw Veg Oil Guys's review of the Anycubic Photo Mono 4K
and bought one last week. Don't rush out and get one yet! The machine works fine, I was delighted when I measured the first dimensional test piece and found the 15mm diameter cylinder was 0.001mm out in one axis and 0.004mm out in the other, way way better than I could do with the Saturn. Now the down side, the slicing software supplied by Anycubic won't run on my fairly new Dell G5 laptop saying OpenGL is out of date, Dell assure me its not. Chitubox don't support the Mono 4K saying Anycubic won't give them the information to create the sliced file and Anycubic say they are "working on it". So I am using Lychee which is good but the price has gone up since Christmas to £72 p.a. (?) although at the moment I'm finding the free version is OK. While the Mono 4K printer works well I am concerned that Anycubic may not support this smaller machine. I did buy the Anycubic Wash and Cure 3 months ago and concur with Dan that its very useful, I just can't find a suitable UK substitute for Mean Green cleaning fluid yet.

Photo shows Anycubic Mono 4K dwarfed by the heated cabinet I made for the much larger Elegoo Saturn. The pen with touch screen prodding button on the end is also shown, the Moni 4K's touch screen is rather small for my podgy fingers. I would like to print the telephone if you are able to share the .stl file.
Robin

Anycubic Mono4K.jpeg
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Robin,

thanks for the update, sorry to hear of your woes. I too have a Dell G5. I’ll check on the OpenGL version I have.

the whole question of having to buy a licence to continue to use hardware that I’ve (potentially) bought is one that puts me right off. I purchased a Lightburn licence to use with my laser, and trust it will last indefinitely, but 72 quid a year, mmm, no, don’t think so. will continue to watch & wait…


I’m aiming to do a 1930 typewriter, a workbench vice, some tools & cast iron central heating radiators in the near future, I’ll add them to the stl library in due course.

I was much amused and delighted to draw the phone “full size” and then scale it in Solidworks. I’d never needed to do that before, but it‘s convenient.

I’ll try to add the phone to a post later today
 

adrian

Flying Squad
STL files are not attached as WT doesn't currently permit - and they might be a bit big.
My apologies - I'd clocked the request and then got side tracked. I think it should work now for attaching stl files up to 8Mb in size.

I purchased a Lightburn licence to use with my laser, and trust it will last indefinitely, but 72 quid a year, mmm, no, don’t think so. will continue to watch & wait…
Yes I really don't like the shift to subscription based software. It does vary, I purchased a VueScan licence probably over a decade ago for around £30 and it still entitles me to all the latest upgrades. Likewise the Lightburn licence I've been using for a number of years and they still honour the upgrades. As they say "your milage may vary" - for hobby use £72pa is steep IMHO so the "community" version or open source is probably the route I'd choose.

I’m aiming to do a 1930 typewriter, a workbench vice, some tools & cast iron central heating radiators in the near future, I’ll add them to the stl library in due course.

Once I've manage to tidy up a few user guides and other things I'd like to try an additional feature with the software to allow members to create a "resource" area so you can upload files into a common area, sort of like a digital library of useful files. So watch this space!
 

Boyblunder

Western Thunderer
A "resource" area is an excellent idea. In the meantime Simon sent his telephone file to me by email and I printed it on the Anycubic Mono 4K in Anycubic green translucent resin at 0.05 resolution. I made a mistake with the supports so the rear right hand corner is missing, otherwise is a workmanlike item that should be useable when painted. I tried using the Zortrax Z-suite software but it only supports the original Photon printer, not the Mono 4k or any other later Anycubic models which is a pity because it looks really good compared to Anycubic's own slicer. WIN_20220302_19_19_55_Pro.jpg
 
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