7mm 7mm Mick's Workbench - JLTRT Royal Scot

[7mmMick]

Hi Mick, sorry to hear of your woes with this.

You look to have quite a bit of frame depth to play with too. There is a motion plate included on the etch in my F8 kit but at the bit where it's designed to go, the frames are quite shallow so no doubt some fun will ensue at the point. I won't be using the motion plate because the holes in the middle are too big for my slide bars but I was planning to use it as a pattern to get the outer shape and dimensions. Plus there are some nice etches for the top and bottom of it to create that 3D cast look.

I can't offer any advice on Joys valve gear as I am a novice like you but I am sure that it will work out okay in the end

Thanks for the vote of confidence Rob, I find the delivery time really hit and miss with the NRM but I'm sure your drawing will turn up soon. I'm looking forward to seeing the F8 come together as it seems like a good kit and I wonder what you'll make of the Joy valve gear?

Hi Mick

I don't know the answer, but if you have a look at some of the animations on the net, it is clear that the bottom end drops quite a long way down.

You will probaly find it is what it is, and you are just not used to seeing such a bizarre motion.

Yours

Richard

Richard I think you're right. I have spoken to Mick Nicholoson about this issue and I think it's just the unconventional movement that seems strange. It has certainly made the build more difficult as the rods move in ways you don't expect and as such don't account for. As you say 'bizarre'

ATB Mick

 

[adrian]

OK it's a slightly (!) different loco but Hambletons 'Locomotives Worth Modelling' contains the following drawing for joy valve gear.



I know it's a different loco but the dimensions may be useful to work out ratios between the different links etc.

There is also a drawing on Don Ashtons website about valve gear which includes another drawing about Joy valve gear. This seems to indicate the variation possible in the bottom anchor link.

http://www.donashton.co.uk/html/other_gears.html

I hope that helps - and hope you get it sorted.

 

[7mmMick]

OK it's a slightly (!) different loco but Hambletons 'Locomotives Worth Modelling' contains the following drawing for joy valve gear.

View attachment 24997

I know it's a different loco but the dimensions may be useful to work out ratios between the different links etc.

There is also a drawing on Don Ashtons website about valve gear which includes another drawing about Joy valve gear. This seems to indicate the variation possible in the bottom anchor link.

http://www.donashton.co.uk/html/other_gears.html

I hope that helps - and hope you get it sorted.

Cheers Adrian,

That does help thankyou, it certainly goes some way to setting me at ease with the strange movements of the motion. I've just finished the last modification for today. Whilst the wife subjected me to 'Downton' I pondered and pondered. Once it had finished and she went to bed I sneaked back to the bench and raised the valve centre as high as I could ( probably near the stipulated 11mm ) in order to lift the radius rod.....

Worked a treat having read Adrian's link I intend to lengthen the Anchor link tomorrow and hopefully that will sort out all my issues. Only time will tell but for tonight I can sleep soundly,

ATB Mick

 

[Steph Dale]

Mick,

That would seem to be the right solution. If my mental geometry works out (it usually does ) then there are two important things to note in the set-up of the valvegear:
1. The Anchor link is horizontal when the crank is at back dead centre (as shown above) and at front dead centre.
2. The Vibrating link/Combination lever should be vertical and in-line when the crank is at top or bottom dead centre.

With that in mind, I think you'll find a solution quickly, if you haven't already done so (which I suspect you have!)

Steph

 

[Scale7JB]

Just thought, im pretty sure that Laurie has posted some videos of different valve gear kits running on youtube.. Might help..

JB.

 

[7mmMick]

Mick,

That would seem to be the right solution. If my mental geometry works out (it usually does ) then there are two important things to note in the set-up of the valvegear:
1. The Anchor link is horizontal when the crank is at back dead centre (as shown above) and at front dead centre.
2. The Vibrating link/Combination lever should be vertical and in-line when the crank is at top or bottom dead centre.

With that in mind, I think you'll find a solution quickly, if you haven't already done so (which I suspect you have!)

Steph

Hi Steph,

That has helped no end thankyou. I checked what I had done and bore both principles in mind and slightly modified the Anchor link and made sure everything else was as you say and that seemed to cure things. I'm currently sat at the bench with one side fully built up, thrashing round covered in metal polish so as to sort out any final slight binding. I'm really pleased with it now and need to get the other side sorted. Thanks for the help with this, as Richard said joy gear moves in such a strange way it's difficult to get your head round initially,

Just thought, im pretty sure that Laurie has posted some videos of different valve gear kits running on youtube.. Might help..

JB.

Cheers JB, I did do a little I phone video ( with Laurie's permission ) of my own on the I phone so I could just refer to it when I needed it. I'll have a look on YouTube though and the next couple will be Stephenson's gear,

ATB Mick

 

[Rob Pulham]

I'm currently sat at the bench with one side fully built up, thrashing round covered in metal polish so as to sort out any final slight binding. I'm really pleased with it now and need to get the other side sorted.

It sounds like it's all coming together now Mick

I got the cylinder back plate and the replacement motion plate fretted out last night I just need the drawing to drill them. If it doesn't land by Friday I will give the NRM a call to see if they have received my order - not doubting it really but when they haven't cashed the cheque you never know for sure whether it has arrived.

 

[lnerjp]

Mick and anyone else interested in valve gear, you need this link http://www.billp.org/Dockstader/ValveGear.html almost every type of valve gear, you can wind it out, notch it up, reverse it, add steam effects it's brilliant.

J.P.

 

[Rob Pulham]

Mick and anyone else interested in valve gear, you need this link http://www.billp.org/Dockstader/ValveGear.html almost every type of valve gear, you can wind it out, notch it up, reverse it, add steam effects it's brilliant.

J.P.

Fantastic, thanks for posting JP

 

[alcazar]

Sadly, it seems to be posted in files my computer doesn't recognise.

 

[daifly]

They are zipped files. Download them to your computer and then unzip them. To download, right click on the file link and use the 'Save file as', or 'Save target as' depending on which browser you use.To unzip, right click on the filename in e.g. Windows Explorer and select 'Extract All'. Apologies if you are being taught to suck eggs.
Dave

 

[alcazar]

Suck, dribble...no, not at all, suck, suck...

Seriously, I didn't know, thanks.

 

[7mmMick]

Ok, an update. Unfortunately for reasons related to work and a house move before christmas I have not been at the bench properly for months. However I have been doing the odd bit here and there. I've made a start on a J71 and J72 and the tender of a J25. I think because sometimes you just want to cut parts off an etch and solder away, no questions, instead of getting the drawings out and spending ages drawing up then fabricating. That said I'm am now looking at having more time so I have promised no more deviations until the J73 is at long last done. So the Joy valve gear is finished and runs lovely and has acheievd what I wanted, the ABC/Canon gear box is mounted and I have made a start on the firebox bottom/ash pan assembley to hide the gear box. The firebox bottom is not properly attached and needs tweaking. Also the LG brake blocks and hangers are fitted and i've made up the pull rods from some 1mm strip. The brake gear at the back is Ragstone and made for a J68 but looking at the drawings it's very similar to the J73 and has modified nicely I think;


Also the cab floor base is in and the bunker front is fitted along with the door that slides up and down. I spent ages on this and it's all as per the drawings. When fitted I realised with the door even half open you don't see a great deal !



Crank pin nuts are from Eastsidepilot, they look champion fitted Col

ATB Mick

 

[Scale7JB]

Looking wizard mate... Really lovely..!

See it at Brightwell?

JB.

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Superb work Mick, look forward to catching up at Brightwell mate

ATB, Col.

 

[7mmMick]

Thanks everyone, I'm hoping to really push it on now up to Brightwell. A couple of questions if I may? When I built the valve gear up I did a little running in with brasso mixed with 2in1 as per LG's instructions, I then cleaned it all up and now it runs smooth dry, do I need to add a little oil here ? I'm conscious that I will have to strip it down and paint it red at some point and this may cause some problems when painting, with little bits of oil residue creeping in. Should I be painting the valve gear/frame insides red ? Were they still so treated in 1950 ? If so can anyone recommend a suitable rattle can or brush paint? Finally I removed the motor section so I could attach some 10 thou to stop the motor rocking about whilst not stopping the springing on the axle. When I re fitted the motor it seemed to pinch the gearbox, only at the front end. Have I lost a shim somewhere or is this normal. There seems to be a little more noise from the gearbox but if I back off the screw that appears to pinch the sides it seems fine, not sure how this has happened, am I just being over cautious ??

ATB Mick

 

[Scale7JB]

I think you'd be fine not oiling until its painted..

I found a good clean in thinners, then a dunk in chemical black, and then many light brush coats of overly thinned paint to stop the paint gunging up the motion.. Learnt from experience...

JB.

 

[dibateg]

Nice to see you back on the grid Mick!

 

[7mmMick]

I think you'd be fine not oiling until its painted..

I found a good clean in thinners, then a dunk in chemical black, and then many light brush coats of overly thinned paint to stop the paint gunging up the motion.. Learnt from experience...

JB.

What colour do you use JB ? Is it a humbrol one ? Do you recommend brush painting the motion and the inside of the frames as well ?

Nice to see you back on the grid Mick!

Cheers Tony, around five or six months away from the bench seems like an age. If it wasn't for promotion at work then I wouldn't have bothered!! Bloody work always gets in the way

ATB Mick

 

[dibateg]

Ah yes work..... I used to do that....