Beginners OO 1950's Banff

[40057]

Construction of cottage #2 continues. The main part of the building is complete up to the ceiling in much the same way as cottage #1 described previously.

View attachment 225595

This photo also shows the dormers, which I construct as boxes that sit on the ceiling and poke up through the roof.

Here's a dry-run with the dormers in place.

View attachment 225596

Hello

I don’t know what date photographs you have of the cottage, but the cat-slide dormers could be later additions as replacements for cast-iron roof lights. They would surely have been added before the 1950s though, so correct for your time period. I assume there is a cast-iron roof light in the middle between the dormers and probably one in the middle at the back as well. The front roof light is for the stairs, the back one for the cupboard between the two upstairs rooms.

 

[aardvark]

Thanks @40057. It sounds like that you're well acquainted with the area, the architecture, or both. It's very good to have confirmation that I've got the dormers right, although I doubt that there are many in Australia who would know.

The one image that I been working from, is undated, but based on the vehicles, possibly late 50's or early 60's. As far as I can see, there are no skylights on the front/north of the 2nd or 3rd cottages, which have dormers. The 4th cottage has a skylight but no dormers. I took a bit of license with the 1st cottage, as the dormers looked too modern to my inexpert eye, so I left them off. Likely, I should add a skylight there.

Other images showing other cottages in the general area show skylights on the back/south, so after your contribution, I will add them to some of the cottages.

cheers

 

[40057]

Thanks @40057. It sounds like that you're well acquainted with the area, the architecture, or both. It's very good to have confirmation that I've got the dormers right, although I doubt that there are many in Australia who would know.

The one image that I been working from, is undated, but based on the vehicles, possibly late 50's or early 60's. As far as I can see, there are no skylights on the front/north of the 2nd or 3rd cottages, which have dormers. The 4th cottage has a skylight but no dormers. I took a bit of license with the 1st cottage, as the dormers looked too modern to my inexpert eye, so I left them off. Likely, I should add a skylight there.

Other images showing other cottages in the general area show skylights on the back/south, so after your contribution, I will add them to some of the cottages.

cheers

Yes, I do know north-east Scotland well.

One question that occurs to me: Does it look as though cottages 1,2,3 and 4 were all built at the same time? (Similar stonework, size, window proportions etc.) If it does look as though they were built together, most likely, since a couple don’t have dormers, originally none of them did.

There are plenty of single-storey cottages about.

However, houses with dormers, referred to as one-and-a-half storey, are extremely common. The upstairs rooms are partially within the walls but mostly in the roof — so the rooms are narrow with sloping walls/ceilings either side and only a small full-height section down the middle. Perfectly OK for bedrooms, of course. The internal arrangements of 19th century 1 1/2 storey houses are incredibly consistent, generally similar to this:



(Ground floor plan)

The back/centre room is accessed by a passage under the ‘high end’ of the stairs. Either the left- or right-hand room would be the kitchen. Upstairs, there is a bedroom either side and generally a full height cupboard (with sloping ceiling) behind the stairs and a large open shelf in front. No bathroom when built of course. In more recent times, the roof has often been altered so that the upstairs full height cupboard now has a flat ceiling and is a bathroom.

The internal layout as described above requires at least one skylight in the centre for lighting the stairs. No skylight does suggest to me that the upstairs rooms were added later and the internal arrangement is not the conventional one for houses built as 1 1/2 storey.

 

[40057]

Hello again

It occurred to me you might get some more information about your cottages if you did an online search for ‘Properties for sale in Scotstown, Banff’. I immediately found this:


Much altered, but one of your cottages. It looks tall enough to have always had an upstairs. I also think the downstairs layout is essentially the sketch in my previous post, but with the internal dividing walls (which aren’t structural) all removed except for those enclosing the stairs. I guess the stairs are now adequately lit by the modern front door, but it is odd that there is no roof light over them.

 

[aardvark]

Thanks again @40057 : very useful information. I, of course, have no intimate of Scotland beyond a visit in 2015. I am very grateful for your contributions.

Based on the OS maps (which are sometimes wrong in detail), it would seem that #1 and 4-10 where built pre-1882, and #2 and 3 where in-filled before 1902. I'd expect that there were all 1 1/2 storey as you describe. The modern-day #2 and 3 look much the same as the others.

Cottage #1 and 4 will get skylights front and back, while #2 will get a back skylight only. Cottage #3 is an interesting exception, as it appears to have been two half-sized (single person?) cottages since construction. Each half has a dormer. Perhaps a skylight on each half at the back?

The skylights over the main station building booking office were a fiddly 6x4mm. Do you think this size would be appropriate? It's hard to tell from photos.

I viewed the Stewart & Watson listing for #2, then realised that I might have done something numpty. Not surprising. I have modelled central back doors, but what was that room behind the actually stairs used for? I couldn't figure it from the listing. If there was a back door, it would have been through the kitchen. I had read that but-and-bens only had the one front door, and I don't have any photographic detail for the backs of these particular cottages, so modelling central back doors was sheer ignorance.

I think it's too late to amend cottage #1 (finished), and even cottage #2 (underway) without major demotivating surgery. It's tempting to block off the back door, but this faces away from the viewer, so perhaps I can just disguise my error with an appropriate level of lean-tos and domestic clutter. There was plenty of that. The future cottage #4 can have a kitchen back door, somewhere, while maybe the half-and-half can go without back doors and perhaps a small bathroom window on one? There were vennels between some of the cottages to access the small space between the cottages and the railway embankment, so perhaps back doors were not 100% necessary, although not all cottages had access to a vennel.

 

[simond]

Vennel (n)
alley

1. chiefly Scottish : a narrow urban passage (as a lane or alley)
2. dialectal, British : gutter, sewer

every day is a school day. I’d have said “ginnel”.

 

[John57sharp]

Vennel (n)
alley

1. chiefly Scottish : a narrow urban passage (as a lane or alley)
2. dialectal, British : gutter, sewer

every day is a school day. I’d have said “ginnel”.

Jigger…

 

[timbowales]

Vennel (n)
alley

1. chiefly Scottish : a narrow urban passage (as a lane or alley)
2. dialectal, British : gutter, sewer

every day is a school day. I’d have said “ginnel”.

I thought "ginnel" was a West Country term? I came across it in my long years residence in Wiltshire

 

[40057]

Hello again

Responding to your various points.

The two ‘half-cottages’ might not have had skylights over the stairs (though they could have done). If the upstairs was a single room with the stairs emerging in it, the dormer window would have lit the whole space.

The Stewart & Watson listing leaves a lot to conjecture about the present layout at the back of the house. There must be a rearwards extension of some kind I think because of the number of rooms the house now has.

Regarding the typical 1 1/2 storey houses with the central front door, a back door is unlikely as originally built. There should be, typically, a single window in the rear elevation to light the middle room behind the stairs. This window generally the same size and shape as the two front windows. I’m not sure of the usual original use of the back room. Maybe a third bedroom for a large family? In modern times, this space may have become a toilet/bathroom. There is quite often a tall chimney (built up to a height above the ridge line of the roof) in the middle of the back elevation for the fireplace in the middle room. No chimney = no fireplace. Some of these 1 1/2 storey houses did/do have a small ‘extension’ on the back elevation at the ‘kitchen end’ of the house, effectively a large stone-built porch with a back-door. I would associate this as a more likely feature on a farmhouse, perhaps slightly larger than the houses you are modelling but with the usual internal layout. Nowadays, I would say the vast majority of these 1 1/2 storey houses have extensions added.

Roof lights come in various sizes. A two-pane cast iron one that I measured was 14” x 20”. Some are much smaller, down to really tiny single panes. Much wider than 14” is unlikely because the roof lights have to fit within the space between two of the A-frames supporting the roof.

 

[40057]

Some detail photos that might help. Not from in or near Banff, but NE.

Typical rear elevation of 1 1/2 storey house:



Window for the room behind the stairs, chimney for the fireplace in that room. Pipe work for modern (?1950s/60s) addition of inside toilet. Octagonal chimney can — a common type — on centre chimney. Scotch harling on granite blocks (not typical in Banff).



Mid-19th century roof made of local ‘Scotch’ slates. Slates are thick, slightly irregular and of different sizes — largest at the bottom, smaller towards the ridge.



Later roof using imported Welsh slates. Slates are thinner and of uniform size. I’m not sure when the general switch to Welsh slates took place. Probably was a gradual change taking some time. Easy to bring Welsh slate to a port like Banff, but local slates available c. 20 miles inland.



Roof light in agricultural building — but the same type as used in houses. Hinged at the top. Spans the gap between adjacent A-frames.

 

[Rob R]

Found this ont' interweb.

 

[40057]

Found this ont' interweb.
View attachment 225968

All is revealed! A wealth of detail there. Long before the 1950s, of course, c.1900 I would guess.

Two (only) of the far row of houses have front dormers — and these don’t have cat-slide roofs. Two houses have chimneys for a fireplace in the room behind the stairs (one built in brick!). Most have a visible window in the back elevation for that room, but some have other windows as well. Most, but not all, also have a back lean-to and back door. Very noticeable rust staining from the cast-iron roof lights (salt!). I think Welsh slates but for the very large slates on the lower-height house in the nearer row. Not sure about those. At least one octagonal can visible in the foreground

By the 1950s, dormers could have been added to further houses. It unlikely the windows in the rear elevations and stone-built lean-tos would have been removed, or the rear-facing roof lights. Sheds (toilets) visible in the back gardens of the nearer houses. These might well still have been present in the 1950s. Mains water and electricity might well have been installed about then.

 

[Wagonman]

Thanks again @40057 : very useful information. I, of course, have no intimate of Scotland beyond a visit in 2015. I am very grateful for your contributions.

Based on the OS maps (which are sometimes wrong in detail), it would seem that #1 and 4-10 where built pre-1882, and #2 and 3 where in-filled before 1902. I'd expect that there were all 1 1/2 storey as you describe. The modern-day #2 and 3 look much the same as the others.

Cottage #1 and 4 will get skylights front and back, while #2 will get a back skylight only. Cottage #3 is an interesting exception, as it appears to have been two half-sized (single person?) cottages since construction. Each half has a dormer. Perhaps a skylight on each half at the back?

The skylights over the main station building booking office were a fiddly 6x4mm. Do you think this size would be appropriate? It's hard to tell from photos.

I viewed the Stewart & Watson listing for #2, then realised that I might have done something numpty. Not surprising. I have modelled central back doors, but what was that room behind the actually stairs used for? I couldn't figure it from the listing. If there was a back door, it would have been through the kitchen. I had read that but-and-bens only had the one front door, and I don't have any photographic detail for the backs of these particular cottages, so modelling central back doors was sheer ignorance.

I think it's too late to amend cottage #1 (finished), and even cottage #2 (underway) without major demotivating surgery. It's tempting to block off the back door, but this faces away from the viewer, so perhaps I can just disguise my error with an appropriate level of lean-tos and domestic clutter. There was plenty of that. The future cottage #4 can have a kitchen back door, somewhere, while maybe the half-and-half can go without back doors and perhaps a small bathroom window on one? There were vennels between some of the cottages to access the small space between the cottages and the railway embankment, so perhaps back doors were not 100% necessary, although not all cottages had access to a vennel.

Here's a photo of a typical 1 1/2 storey cottage ('Butt and Ben'?) – this one from East Lothian thought I don't think the design differed much up the whole of the east coast. My great grandfather lived in one in Perthshire.

 

[aardvark]

Thanks to all for your most welcome contributions.

I think @Rob R 's image is from Gallery – Old Banff – Banff and Macduff, 'two towns, big future’. Cottages #1-4, the one's I'm "modelling", are at the far end. Cottage #3 - the half-and-half - already has it's dormers and a rear brick chimney, as may cottage #2. Cottage #3b has a stone-built lean-to, possibly with a back door, which makes sense as it didn't have access to a vennel. Quite a few of the cottages have two skylights on the back.

Another image of the backs of the cottages is https://collections.st-andrews.ac.uk/item/scotstown-banff/93495, dated 1959, showing the same row of cottages in the background, with cottage #6 at the right. Combined with the above, these images go to show how poorly I've modelled the cottage backs. Oh dear.

Cottage #2, which has yet to get it's roof, can be corrected with some surgery to give it a single central back window and a rear brick chimney. Cottage #1 could be corrected too, but the surgery would be more major, so perhaps I'll leave it and try to disguise the error of my ways with lean-tos and clutter. I'll come back to it when I run out of things to do. As if.

Sigh.

But thanks again to everyone. I'm not trying to build a museum-grade layout, but if my buildings are going to be scratch-built, they might as be as correct as I can reasonable make them. For me, this is a retirement pastime, so if I spend my time getting things right-ish, then that's as good a use of my time as any other.

But don't tell my wife I said that.

 

[40057]

I’ve had a look at the St Andrews 1959 image.

That does indeed answer some more questions. The houses clearly have mains electricity. The electricity poles are on the far side of the road in front of the houses. Several television aerials can be seen. On the gable end of the nearest completely visible house you can see the swan necked tube on the chimney where the electricity supply is connected.

Essentially, this:



Mains water has been installed and toilets moved indoors. On the block of cottages nearest the camera, there is a toilet vent pipe on the nearest one indicating a toilet has been installed downstairs in (part of?) the centre back room. Can’t see anything on the next house — toilet may be in the rear extension? On the house after that, the pipe work and the rear facing cat-slide dormer indicate a toilet has been installed upstairs in the back space between the two bedrooms. On the farthest house in this block, there is a toilet vent pipe on the rear extension and one suggesting a toilet in the downstairs centre room behind the stairs.

 

[aardvark]

Hmmmm ... toilets. I hadn't thought about modelling toilets, or their plumbing.

I think I'll draw the line at power lines, though.

 

[40057]

Hmmmm ... toilets. I hadn't thought about modelling toilets, or their plumbing.

I think I'll draw the line at power lines, though.

The changes you’ll be making to the models to reflect the switch to inside toilets are an external pipe and frosted/obscured glazing in the relevant window.

Don’t blame you for ignoring the power lines.

 

[aardvark]

The revised rear of cottage #2, with single centre window, small chimney, skylights and a lean-to.

 

[aardvark]

Construction of cottage #2 is nearly complete, but I'm struggling a bit with the skylights. @40057 says these are around 14x20", or 4.5x6.5mm scale.



This is a very cruel closeup of 4 skylights with 1mm selvage between them. This makes it a little easier to hold them while wielding the scalpel to remove the cutouts before the skylights are separated.

Previously, the small skylights for the station building were made from a frame of 0.25mm plasticard, perspex glazing with scribed muntins, which were glued together and fitted into holes in the roof - all of which was quite a faff. With lots of skylights to be made for the four cottages, I'm looking for something a bit easier on the fingers.

 

[aardvark]

Well, at long last, cottage #2 completed, excepting guttering, downpipes and chimney pots.





Thanks again to @40057 for pointing out several details that I had ignored or overlooked, especially the general layout of the rear of the cottage. I'm so happy with the result that the next task will be re-working the rear of cottage #1. I don't have any photos of the back of this particular cottage, so I have borrowed the layout from another.