BR 4MT 2-6-4T - resource material
- Thread starter Dog Star
- Start date
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Thank you Martin,
From what you have written, I think that these photos show the original form of spring attachment - all photos are courtesy of Jonpaul (@lnerjp) and each of the three photos are copyright Jonpaul Venus. I understand that the photos were taken about seven or eight years back and are of 80135 on the NYMR hence the images record what was then rather than what might be now.
The first photo show that the bottom of the suspension cup / block is flat (relatively so) with a recess (of what shape?) to contain the bottom end of the spring hanger "bolt". The other two photos illustrate the way in which the spring sits inside the spring hanger bracket and give glimpses of the top end of the suspension fixings.
Anyone have photos of the top and bottom fixings as alluded to in Martin's post earlier? Or a description of how springs are changed / axle weight adjusted? Ok, modelling might not be impacted by the questions and answers, personal interest could be satisfied.
thanks, Graham
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
Ok last lot
Front left buffer.
Bogie frames.
Bogie again. It was cold and raining at this point and I wasn't inclined to hang about, I'll take some better ones another time.
Drivers side cab interior.
LH tank side.
RH tank top.
LH tank top.
Crosshead again, why?
Set up on the surface table to establish centres.
The slot where the cotter goes to hold the piston rod in.
The other crosshead showing wher the drop link is attached.
Slidebars.
Slidebars 2, They are big and heavy.
Valve and cylinder casting.
I think that's enough from me, I hope that the pictures give some useful detail of the bare bones of the loco. If I can get over there on a decent day I'll take more detailed pics of the bits currently lying outside. If anyone wants something better pictured just ask.
Regards
Martin
Front left buffer.
Bogie frames.
Bogie again. It was cold and raining at this point and I wasn't inclined to hang about, I'll take some better ones another time.
Drivers side cab interior.
LH tank side.
RH tank top.
LH tank top.
Crosshead again, why?
Set up on the surface table to establish centres.
The slot where the cotter goes to hold the piston rod in.
The other crosshead showing wher the drop link is attached.
Slidebars.
Slidebars 2, They are big and heavy.
Valve and cylinder casting.
I think that's enough from me, I hope that the pictures give some useful detail of the bare bones of the loco. If I can get over there on a decent day I'll take more detailed pics of the bits currently lying outside. If anyone wants something better pictured just ask.
Regards
Martin
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
Graham
As you can readily see ours is in bits and I didn't see any of the spring hanger components. I think I know where they are so I'll see what I can do in due course.
Mike
Haven't forgotten about AWS, from memory it was bolted to the rear of the bogie, again with more clement weather I'll have a poke about.
Regards
Martin
As you can readily see ours is in bits and I didn't see any of the spring hanger components. I think I know where they are so I'll see what I can do in due course.
Mike
Haven't forgotten about AWS, from memory it was bolted to the rear of the bogie, again with more clement weather I'll have a poke about.
Regards
Martin
lnerjp
Western Thunderer
Hi All & Graham
Got some pictures of spring hangers yesterday.
Hanger from 76079
The block that sits on top of the spring with the slot in that the key sits in come in different thicknesses and is how you adjust the spring tension and therefore the axle weight. (if that makes sense?)
Spencer block from underneath.
![SL550049[2305843009216211786].JPG](https://www.westernthunder.co.uk/data/attachments/84/84193-7e49fee20f2ecc0b37829b07b43025a3.jpg "SL550049[2305843009216211786].JPG")
And again.
Got some pictures of spring hangers yesterday.
Hanger from 76079
The block that sits on top of the spring with the slot in that the key sits in come in different thicknesses and is how you adjust the spring tension and therefore the axle weight. (if that makes sense?)
Spencer block from underneath.
And again.
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
Indeed I concur with Graham, ours are different and I will take pics when I can get to the railway. My understanding is that it was a modification to the spring hanger design by the Std loco owners group to make spring changes and subsequent weighing easier and was approved by one of the Vehicle Acceptance Bodies, presumably for all standard classes, but I may be wrong on this last point. Were they all the same?
Regards
Martin
Regards
Martin
farnetti
Western Thunderer
Graham, Martin,
Having recently started a MOK kit of the 4MT I find this thread very helpful. Grahams post 27 describes the kit as supplied and I am building 80064 as it was at Watford in 1959. There are several photos of the preserved loco but none I can find of the relevant spring blocks, modification would be relatively easy if needed.
The Bluebell is a long way from here, anyone have an answer.
Thanks,
Ken
Having recently started a MOK kit of the 4MT I find this thread very helpful. Grahams post 27 describes the kit as supplied and I am building 80064 as it was at Watford in 1959. There are several photos of the preserved loco but none I can find of the relevant spring blocks, modification would be relatively easy if needed.
The Bluebell is a long way from here, anyone have an answer.
Thanks,
Ken
Hi Martin,
Having been pointed in this direction by Graham on my MOK build thread, I have now down loaded the photos into my prototype file for future reference. What a brilliant set of photos, so let me add my thanks to you for having gone to the trouble of taking and posting them.
I took a whole load of photos of 80002 stored out of service but intact on the KWVR, so I'll share them on my thread when I get a minute. There will be some duplication of yours but I trust somebody will find them useful, and as far as I am concerned, you can never have too many prototype photos. These are to be used in combination with in service photos, as we never know what you preservationist have changed to catch us out!
I think from looking at this that 80002 has the same type of hanger as posted by LNERJP. I've not decided which prototype to model yet, but to be honest I'm not too concerned about the hangers and won't be getting hung up on them. Pardon the pun.
Cheers,
Peter
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
Your very welcome Peter.
I can add a bit more to the spring hanger debate only gleaned yesterday. Apparently a change to the original design was proposed by BR but by that time steam had a limited life and it wasn't done. It will be obvious that the arrangement with cotters is somewhat hit and miss, and time consuming. By changing to a threaded hanger with adjusting nuts it would have been quicker and by machining a mark on the hornguide where the top of the axlebox should align, possible to adjust a spring to both the correct weight and buffer height, with relative ease. I have been told that most of the 80000s in preservation have done it and, theoretically at least, could be done with all the Std classes. Obviously some haven't.
Regards
Martin
I can add a bit more to the spring hanger debate only gleaned yesterday. Apparently a change to the original design was proposed by BR but by that time steam had a limited life and it wasn't done. It will be obvious that the arrangement with cotters is somewhat hit and miss, and time consuming. By changing to a threaded hanger with adjusting nuts it would have been quicker and by machining a mark on the hornguide where the top of the axlebox should align, possible to adjust a spring to both the correct weight and buffer height, with relative ease. I have been told that most of the 80000s in preservation have done it and, theoretically at least, could be done with all the Std classes. Obviously some haven't.
Regards
Martin
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
Peter
Not at all, fill your boots. I'm watching your thread with some interest, not least because I am going to do one as well, but the A3 was just outstanding.
Martin
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Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
A few more pics taken today.
The driving wheels having been turned, the new tyre is apparent.
The rear bogie
One of the bogie main spring beams gently being tried
Bogie wheel and axle with axlebox rotated nearly upside down
Frames 1
Frames 2
The driving wheels having been turned, the new tyre is apparent.
The rear bogie
One of the bogie main spring beams gently being tried
Bogie wheel and axle with axlebox rotated nearly upside down
Frames 1
Frames 2
Overseer
Western Thunderer
Out of curiosity, the new tyre looks larger diameter. Presumably the other tyres are half worn or more. Do you have to turn the new tyre down to match the diameter of the worn tyres? I imagine there would be problems with excess wear in the coupling rod bearings and less steady riding with an odd sized wheel on the loco. Is this the case I reality?