Car Paint Discusion (moved from Phill's Workbench)

[warren haywood]

Brian, Tim.
I will come back to you with a list of codes when I get a bit of time, just spent most of the day painting the black and buffer beams on Nicks 3 princesses.

Brian, regarding etch primer, in my opinion you can't beat Phoenix precision 2 pack primer. It can be bought in small quantities ideal for occasional use as it won't go off. I use tetrosyl which I think is the same stuff, I bought 10 litres of it about 4 or 5 years ago and it is still fine although I have almost run out.

I would advise etch primer through your airbrush every time as the top coat is only as good as what's underneath. I regularly take commissions which have been primered usually with the grey Halfords stuff. These go straight into a celly bath to get it off. Compared to an airbrushed primer there is no comparison, the etch primer dries in a minute or so and is totally flat, there is no grittiness which is so common with spray cans. Also try the 'fingernail test' after 24 hours you won't shift it yet ordinary primer will scratch off.

To spray it I ignore the instructions that it comes with, I mix 1 part paint to 2 parts activator to 1 part cellulose thinner. Spraying is done with a medium pressure say 20 psi from about 6 inches away, you don't need to fully cover the model. Ideally you should still see the base metal and solder marks underneath. Just a light coat is fine. Leave for 24 hours then on with livery coats, it's as easy as that!

Hope this helps
Warren

 

[warren haywood]

Just add to above posts, never use standard cellulose thinner for painting, it's basically a cleaner and degreaser. Always use high gloss thinner, sometimes it's also called superflow. Anti bloom is also fine
Warren

 

[oldravendale]

I will come back to you with a list of codes when I get a bit of time.

Brian, regarding etch primer, in my opinion you can't beat Phoenix precision 2 pack primer.
To spray it I ignore the instructions that it comes with, I mix 1 part paint to 2 parts activator to 1 part cellulose thinner. Spraying is done with a medium pressure say 20 psi from about 6 inches away, you don't need to fully cover the model. Ideally you should still see the base metal and solder marks underneath. Just a light coat is fine. Leave for 24 hours then on with livery coats, it's as easy as that!

Hope this helps
Warren

Thanks for this, Warren - and also your comments about cellulose thinner about which I was totally unaware. I guess this thinners comes from the same place supplying the cellulose paint? I have some Precision 2 pack primer in the cupboard, unused so far, so there's a starter for me! So useful to know your mix as well. I've also used tetrosyl on the last couple of locos (but from a spray can ) and found it an enormous improvement over the normal Halfords primers.

Thanks in anticipation of the list of codes. I guess I'll have absolutely no excuse to liberate the air brush once that's available!

Best regards.

Brian

 

[TheSnapper]

Warren

Thanks for the info on Etch Primer.

Can I ask: do you use a separate Airbrush for it, to avoid wear on the nozzle, or is that an "old wives tale"?

Tim

 

[warren haywood]

Tim, old wives tale mate

 

[warren haywood]

As promised,
Ral & BS codes.

These are mostly matched as close as possible to Phoenix Precision, others are my own interpretation

SECR, Great Central green. BS227
Maunsel olive green. BS224 + a drop of Ral 8016
LNER apple green. Bs225
GWR chocolate. Ral 8016
GWR cream. 50% BS 353 + 50% white
GWR loco green BS 224
GWR Indian red. 50% Ral 3009 +50% Ral 8016
Undercoat for Maroon, crimson. Ral3009
BR maroon. Ral3005
BR crimsons. Ral 3003 or Ral 3004
BR cream. Bs 353
BR green. BS 224
Coach roof grey. Bs 638
BR steam loco blue 1948. Bb. Ral5002
BR steam loco blue standard. Ral5010
Black. Ral 9005
Smoke box black. Ral9004
Rail blue. Ral 5001
Warning panel yellow. Bs356
Lnwr coach plum. Bs541 + a little black
Lnwr coach white. Ral1013
Lms period 3 coach roof silver. Ral9006. (Or Stratford duffs )
Signal red. Ral 3020

All for now Warren

 

[lancer1027]

Thanks Warren thats going to be very useful to alot of us on here.

I would also be interested in BR Rail Grey ( blue/grey ) if this is possible.

Rob

 

[warren haywood]

Rob,
Ral 9002 looks a good match for rail grey.
Warren

 

[oldravendale]

That's really helpful, Warren. Thank you so much.

Brian

 

[TheSnapper]

That's really helpful, Warren. Thank you so much.

Brian

+1 Warren, thanks!

Tim

 

[Steph Dale]

Interesting list Warren,
I've got RAL 5020 'Ozeanblau' for Rail Blue - it's the same colour as that used by Deutsche Bundesbahn for their blue/cream stock...
Steph

 

[lancer1027]

Rob,
Ral 9002 looks a good match for rail grey.
Warren

Cheers Warren much appreciated.

Rob

 

[warren haywood]

Rob no probs, any more you need just ask

Steff, some colours including the British railways standard blue are pretty much guesswork. It just looks correct, I've done quite a few locos in it and no one has ever said its wrong, but then who would remember. You only have to look at the preserved King and Sir Nigel Gresley, both are supposed to be in standard blue but are as different as night and day.
The other colour that is a problem is Midland/LMS crimson lake. There isn't a colour that I like from the
Ral/BS range so I borrowed a loco painted by Bracks and did a bit of mixing myself til I got a match. Again it looks right and nobody has ever said otherwise.
The trouble with colours as we all know is that they look different in certain light, fade, human error in the mixing and so on.
I could go on but it's tea time now
Warren

 

[warren haywood]

The photo in Nicks princess thread is 5010 it's called gentian blue although the image is a little brighter than the actual model.
5001 is green blue and is basically rail blue. They used to do rail blue but it's now gone from the list.

Don't know if it shows up in the picture but will try



Warren

 

[Steph Dale]

It's all approximate anyway - many of the Rail colours we know and love are in the BS381c series.
Have a dekko at this link for an example: http://www.indestructible.co.uk/BS_381C/
E.g. Rail blue - BS381c/114
Rail grey BS381c/627

And here for what I understand to be more modern references: http://www.e-paint.co.uk/other_bs_colours.asp

Steph (demonstrating he's got a mind full of . Again.)

 

[warren haywood]

Yeah, but Bs114 no longer available, 540 crimson has gone aswell

 

[Steph Dale]

Yeah, but Bs114 no longer available, 540 crimson has gone aswell

Warren,

Is it not just a case of finding someone who will mix paint to the obsolete standard - even if the standard is no longer 'legal tender'? I only say that as the two links I posted are from paint manufacturers who claim to produce finishes to those specifications...

Not that I'd go to Indestructible for a small quantity of paint unless I had a spare grandmother I was prepared to part with.

Steph

 

[Pugsley]

I think now is about the right time to lob a grenade

Whilst I appreciate that BS381C/114 is the actual colour for Rail Blue, wouldn't a model painted that colour look too dark? In my opinion, the colours for use on models should be lighter than the true shade, due to the scale effect.

 

[Steph Dale]

I think now is about the right time to lob a grenade

Whilst I appreciate that BS381C/114 is the actual colour for Rail Blue, wouldn't a model painted that colour look too dark? In my opinion, the colours for use on models should be lighter than the true shade, due to the scale effect.

Hehe, probably, yes.
Try getting hold of HO scale paint though; then you'll get a funny look
Steph

 

[Heather Kay]

It's a good point, though. I see so many threads over on RMW that are along the lines of "where do I find the right paint for this shade of ... ". As modellers we sometimes tend to the obsessive about total accuracy, forgetting that what we do is an art form.

(The following will begin to get ranty, but it's not meant to be.)

I take the view that it's nice to have the exact shade of blue as used by the GER in 1904, but who is going to know if you get it wrong? Provided you are consistent about colour, will it really matter if your LMS coaches are painted with Damask Red off the shelf at Halfords or from a custom mixed colour carefully matched to a flake of paint found behind a cupboard in the old paintshop in Wolverton Works?

In the Real World, colour varies according to lighting conditions, age, how carefully the paint was applied and how long ago. A rake of coaches in BR maroon would have shown subtle variations in shade for all kinds of reasons. The most convincing models to my eye are often those that show these subtle flaws to perfection - the work of Martyn Welch and Colin Dowling and Fred Lewis, and plenty of others, some of whom can be found on this very forum, fit this bill perfectly.

As a rule, I am happy to buy what the model trade suppliers provide as "authentic" colours. There are some colours - BR coach crimson, for example - which I feel are not quite right, but I don't have personal recollections or good colour reference material to prove it. I try to be consistent with my approach.

You can kind of see why many railway companies adopted black as a livery colour for locos!