7mm Connoisseur Models Southern Railway G6
- Thread starter Ian G
- Start date
Ian G
Western Thunderer
Further progress, tanks filled with lead shot and araldite, lids on sand boxes and tanks in cab, hand rail holes in side of cab filled, a spot more cleaning up then to add the cab fittings, I have noticed on the photo's I have that there is a pipe coming through the cab to the whistle then going down both sides, dos anyone have a good picture of this?
Ian G
Ian G
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Ian,
Is this being modelled with an Adams or Drummond boiler? Apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs, the latter has safety valves on the dome, the former in the traditional position over the firebox. It can make a small difference to the plumbing arrangements for the injectors, which is actually what you're describing.
I'm really struggling to find a good clear image, but the Locomotives Illustrated covering the class will allow you to piece it all together (No. 127 'The Larger 0-6-0 Side Tank Locomotives of the Southern Railway including the 'E1R' 0-6-2Ts' as it's catchily titled). What you actually have is a whistle manifold and valve on the centre of the firebox, with the whistle valve handle going back in to the cab. Either side of that are separately-mounted injector steam valves; the handle shaft goes back in to the cab and the piping goes down between tanks and boiler to the injectors (which could be either Adams or Drummond type).
In later condition there's another steam valve on the driver's (right hand) side, which is for the vacuum brake ejector.
You don't have to look just at Adam's locos, or just at G6 class locos. The vast majority of LSWR locos have a similar arrangement of steam valves over their fireboxes.
I hope that helps?
And I've just realised I need to get a set of injector steam valves for my G6 too...!
Steph
Is this being modelled with an Adams or Drummond boiler? Apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs, the latter has safety valves on the dome, the former in the traditional position over the firebox. It can make a small difference to the plumbing arrangements for the injectors, which is actually what you're describing.
I'm really struggling to find a good clear image, but the Locomotives Illustrated covering the class will allow you to piece it all together (No. 127 'The Larger 0-6-0 Side Tank Locomotives of the Southern Railway including the 'E1R' 0-6-2Ts' as it's catchily titled). What you actually have is a whistle manifold and valve on the centre of the firebox, with the whistle valve handle going back in to the cab. Either side of that are separately-mounted injector steam valves; the handle shaft goes back in to the cab and the piping goes down between tanks and boiler to the injectors (which could be either Adams or Drummond type).
In later condition there's another steam valve on the driver's (right hand) side, which is for the vacuum brake ejector.
You don't have to look just at Adam's locos, or just at G6 class locos. The vast majority of LSWR locos have a similar arrangement of steam valves over their fireboxes.
I hope that helps?
And I've just realised I need to get a set of injector steam valves for my G6 too...!
Steph
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Rightio, so this photo will be useful then? Adams boiler, Drummond injectors by the way - so you'll need to get a set of Drummond injector steam valves too...
Steph
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Ian,
I'm trying to describe the fittings either side of the whistle, which you raised a question about in post #45.
Unfortunately I haven't got a photo available to me which is out of copyright and which I can mark up.
The long and short of it is that the fitting you describe at the base of the whistle isn't a single item, it's three; the whistle valve with an injector steam valve on each side of it. I'll try and knock up a quick sketch in the next day or two to help.
Steph
I'm trying to describe the fittings either side of the whistle, which you raised a question about in post #45.
Unfortunately I haven't got a photo available to me which is out of copyright and which I can mark up.
The long and short of it is that the fitting you describe at the base of the whistle isn't a single item, it's three; the whistle valve with an injector steam valve on each side of it. I'll try and knock up a quick sketch in the next day or two to help.
Steph
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Ian,
Are you referring to a picture of DS3152? I think the fitting you're describing there is the carriage warming valve, which I don't think the Meldon shunter would have had. Certainly neither of the photos I have of it show steam heat hoses on the bufferbeams. I'll check and get back to you.
Steph
Ian G
Western Thunderer
My backhead before assembly water gauges either side, outside left brake valve, outside right combined ejector, this is the item in my earlier post I was refering to, on the GA drawing a pipe comes out of the top through the cab into the manifold thingy Steph, The GA drawing is only side on and look down, the fire box door handle looks a bit long.
A look down into the cab a tad more cleaning required before fitting out.
Ian G
A look down into the cab a tad more cleaning required before fitting out.
Ian G
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Ian,
Unfortunately there are some fundamental errors in the GA and further things which changed over the years:
The spring hanger arrangement shown on the GA is that of the O2 class, by the time the G6 class actually came to be built the arrangement was simplified.
Not long after introduction all locos received vacuum brake on the loco, the cylinder goes under the cab, with the lever acting on the existing brake fulcrum.
Locos of the first batch were the only ones to have a full set of Adams fittings and it appears that most (if not all) locos subsequently lost them in favour of Drummond fittings.
It is just possible your loco survived late with Adams fittings, but I can't say how likely it is. I'll have to check my pics over the next few days and get back to you.
If you're looking at the side view when referring to the fire door handle, I suspect you're actually looking at the sanding handle, which goes inside the side tank, in the cab, on the driver's side. I'm not sure about the need for a separate brake valve and ejector, most locos would have had a combined ejector/valve; which seems to be the component on the right. I'm really not sure I recognise the part on the left, but will dig out the components/research and have a check.
One last thing I'm not sure of with your loco is whether it was one of the latter batches that had steam reverse and other Drummond details, including the shorter boiler. Certainly the photo I linked earlier seems to show an early Adams boiler, so I suspect you're alright there.
For a small class they're an absolute ruddy nightmare for details...!
If you don't mind bearing with me I'll get some info to you here over the next few days.
Steph
Unfortunately there are some fundamental errors in the GA and further things which changed over the years:
The spring hanger arrangement shown on the GA is that of the O2 class, by the time the G6 class actually came to be built the arrangement was simplified.
Not long after introduction all locos received vacuum brake on the loco, the cylinder goes under the cab, with the lever acting on the existing brake fulcrum.
Locos of the first batch were the only ones to have a full set of Adams fittings and it appears that most (if not all) locos subsequently lost them in favour of Drummond fittings.
It is just possible your loco survived late with Adams fittings, but I can't say how likely it is. I'll have to check my pics over the next few days and get back to you.
If you're looking at the side view when referring to the fire door handle, I suspect you're actually looking at the sanding handle, which goes inside the side tank, in the cab, on the driver's side. I'm not sure about the need for a separate brake valve and ejector, most locos would have had a combined ejector/valve; which seems to be the component on the right. I'm really not sure I recognise the part on the left, but will dig out the components/research and have a check.
One last thing I'm not sure of with your loco is whether it was one of the latter batches that had steam reverse and other Drummond details, including the shorter boiler. Certainly the photo I linked earlier seems to show an early Adams boiler, so I suspect you're alright there.
For a small class they're an absolute ruddy nightmare for details...!
If you don't mind bearing with me I'll get some info to you here over the next few days.
Steph
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Ian,
I've just had a quick look through the info I have to hand. To sum up:
DS3152 was built as 272 in 1889, to works order X7. It was built by Drummond to the original Adams specifications so there are no significant modifications required to the kit; it has lever reverse and the longer boiler. Bizarrely it also appears to not have any wheel balance weights in any of the photos I have of it. That makes the main error in the kit the long O2-style spring hangers, you can replace them with 3-axles worth of Laurie's part 27-42. The photo I linked to in post #48 confirms this quite nicely as the spring hangers are entirely absent.
In terms of cab details, and with no G6 still in existence, it's worth looking at the O2 'Calbourne' as preserved on the Isle of Wight. Traps to avoid are that the 02 is air brake, so there's no vacuum ejector. The air brake handle seems to be mounted on the right hand cab wall and there's an extra handwheel - the governor/steam valve for the Westinghouse pump.
In terms of the brake valve vs. combined ejector, Laurie's notes in with the cab backhead point you in the right direction: When vacuum (rather than steam) brake was adopted for Adams locos the combined ejector was fitted and the lever-style brake valve removed. The additional valve over the firebox on the driver's side is the steam valve to supply the combination ejector; you'll need to find or make something suitable.
I've had a look at the position of the firedoor handles on the GA, photos of the O2 and the LG parts. The latter are correct, but it appears that the lower fulcrum should be prototypically mounted below floor height. You'll then find it'll all work quite nicely. The pics (below) should help with your finishing of this part. The major omission from the LG backhead set is the plethora of handwheels required for the blower, two injector steam valves and ejector steam valve.
Other details to note, and an error on my part for which I apologise: It appears that DS3152 did indeed maintain a number of Adams steam fittings, the whistle manifold is therefore a combined casting with the injector steam valves; assuming you've already got an Adams whistle you should be able to use it as supplied. In the photo links (below) be aware that the O2 has an organ-pipe whistle rather than the style you need, but the casting and plumbing it sits on does apply to your model.
I haven't got a clear view of DS3152's injectors, which are tucked up under the tank between the middle and rear drivers, so can't confirm whether they're Adams or Drummond type; you would get away with either, or just a carefully-shaped length of wire!
Piccies, of 'Calbourne':
http://www.flickr.com/photos/65614637@N00/5221840406
http://locoyard.files.wordpress.com...t-steam-railway-havenstreet-w24-calbourne.jpg
http://locoyard.files.wordpress.com...t-steam-railway-havenstreet-w24-calbourne.jpg
Steph
I've just had a quick look through the info I have to hand. To sum up:
DS3152 was built as 272 in 1889, to works order X7. It was built by Drummond to the original Adams specifications so there are no significant modifications required to the kit; it has lever reverse and the longer boiler. Bizarrely it also appears to not have any wheel balance weights in any of the photos I have of it. That makes the main error in the kit the long O2-style spring hangers, you can replace them with 3-axles worth of Laurie's part 27-42. The photo I linked to in post #48 confirms this quite nicely as the spring hangers are entirely absent.
In terms of cab details, and with no G6 still in existence, it's worth looking at the O2 'Calbourne' as preserved on the Isle of Wight. Traps to avoid are that the 02 is air brake, so there's no vacuum ejector. The air brake handle seems to be mounted on the right hand cab wall and there's an extra handwheel - the governor/steam valve for the Westinghouse pump.
In terms of the brake valve vs. combined ejector, Laurie's notes in with the cab backhead point you in the right direction: When vacuum (rather than steam) brake was adopted for Adams locos the combined ejector was fitted and the lever-style brake valve removed. The additional valve over the firebox on the driver's side is the steam valve to supply the combination ejector; you'll need to find or make something suitable.
I've had a look at the position of the firedoor handles on the GA, photos of the O2 and the LG parts. The latter are correct, but it appears that the lower fulcrum should be prototypically mounted below floor height. You'll then find it'll all work quite nicely. The pics (below) should help with your finishing of this part. The major omission from the LG backhead set is the plethora of handwheels required for the blower, two injector steam valves and ejector steam valve.
Other details to note, and an error on my part for which I apologise: It appears that DS3152 did indeed maintain a number of Adams steam fittings, the whistle manifold is therefore a combined casting with the injector steam valves; assuming you've already got an Adams whistle you should be able to use it as supplied. In the photo links (below) be aware that the O2 has an organ-pipe whistle rather than the style you need, but the casting and plumbing it sits on does apply to your model.
I haven't got a clear view of DS3152's injectors, which are tucked up under the tank between the middle and rear drivers, so can't confirm whether they're Adams or Drummond type; you would get away with either, or just a carefully-shaped length of wire!
Piccies, of 'Calbourne':
http://www.flickr.com/photos/65614637@N00/5221840406
http://locoyard.files.wordpress.com...t-steam-railway-havenstreet-w24-calbourne.jpg
http://locoyard.files.wordpress.com...t-steam-railway-havenstreet-w24-calbourne.jpg
Steph
Ian G
Western Thunderer
I am hoping I have got the next bit right as described by Steph and in the pictures supplied.
The mock up before soldering, top flange cast buffer spun in mini drill 1mm rod for pipe, the bit sticking up is a cocktail stick for alignment, this will be replaced with small tube.
As there needs to be a hand wheel on the other side, hole drilled and broached to allow fine tube through, this will act as a flange as in the O2 pic and an ease to secure both items attaching to the cab front.
Final pic I am hoping these are the right castings to go into the boiler and down between the front and centre wheels, Alan Gibson part 701.
Ian G
The mock up before soldering, top flange cast buffer spun in mini drill 1mm rod for pipe, the bit sticking up is a cocktail stick for alignment, this will be replaced with small tube.
As there needs to be a hand wheel on the other side, hole drilled and broached to allow fine tube through, this will act as a flange as in the O2 pic and an ease to secure both items attaching to the cab front.
Final pic I am hoping these are the right castings to go into the boiler and down between the front and centre wheels, Alan Gibson part 701.
Ian G