DJH A3
- Thread starter oldravendale
- Start date
Dikitriki
Flying Squad
Driver's side only.
Here's the Finney version
For those who are interested, and with apologies to Brian for the diversion, DJ has not yet successfully run round Heyside, as it predates the final tracklaying and has not yet been chipped. I know I have some work on the bogie and trailing truck to secure adequate clearance.
The good news is that it has moved right up the agenda, not only because I have been considering it in response to Brian's posts, but I have finally reconciled myself (not easily) to the fact that I'm better off getting it painted professionally, and seeing Warren's work on here, I now know I will be happy putting it in his direction. The plan is to finish a new loco (Fowler 2-6-2) and a shelf queen (which the A3 is) and send them 2 by 2 for painting, which will have the effect of getting my 20 year backlog down too.
Richard
Here's the Finney version
For those who are interested, and with apologies to Brian for the diversion, DJ has not yet successfully run round Heyside, as it predates the final tracklaying and has not yet been chipped. I know I have some work on the bogie and trailing truck to secure adequate clearance.
The good news is that it has moved right up the agenda, not only because I have been considering it in response to Brian's posts, but I have finally reconciled myself (not easily) to the fact that I'm better off getting it painted professionally, and seeing Warren's work on here, I now know I will be happy putting it in his direction. The plan is to finish a new loco (Fowler 2-6-2) and a shelf queen (which the A3 is) and send them 2 by 2 for painting, which will have the effect of getting my 20 year backlog down too.
Richard
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Having in my ignorance, finally worked out which bit we are discussing
- Thanks for the photo Richard
I find that thankfully I haven't fixed that bit in place on mine yet - the rod that goes back to the cab is still way over length and needs cutting back so I will ensure that mine is "in gear" when I get to it.
- Thanks for the photo Richard I find that thankfully I haven't fixed that bit in place on mine yet - the rod that goes back to the cab is still way over length and needs cutting back so I will ensure that mine is "in gear" when I get to it.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Hi all again.
Here are the photos of the valve gear on my A3. Now they can be viewed on both sides and at two different
orientations. I'll be grateful if you'll examine and let me have your views.
Above please see gratuitous shot of bird poo, otherwise you might think something was missing.
Brian
Here are the photos of the valve gear on my A3. Now they can be viewed on both sides and at two different
orientations. I'll be grateful if you'll examine and let me have your views.
Above please see gratuitous shot of bird poo, otherwise you might think something was missing.
Brian
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Brian, I personally wouldn't scratch build from Isinglass myself, my view is that they are reasonably accurate overall drawings, same as any set of drawings out there really, excepting works drawings. I do have a GA of the A4 and I'm sure I picked up an A3 last time I was at York, certainly have the A1 and A2, all pretty much use the same motion in that area and certainly the A4 does, I'll grab that part of the GA and send it over tonight for you.
Regarding cleaning, strip it down and spray liberally in Viakal spray and let soak for five minutes or so, then drop it in warm water and scrub gently with a worm tooth brush or say a 1/2" paint brush and then leave to dry, that'll get most of the crud off. Viakal does turn any excessive solder a milky colour but it is clean and will take primer easily. Viakal may leave a residue but I've not had issues with it in the past. There are other ways to clean but thats what I use and it works for me....so far
Thanks for your comments about the Isinglass drawings, Mick. It's unlikely that I have a works drawing so your help in that respect is appreciated.
As far as the cleaning up pre painting is concerned I've taken to using Bar Keepers Friend. It has worked very well for me on the last two builds so I'll probably stick with it although I know many people swear by Viakal.
Best regards.
Brian
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
It's interesting to note that DJH have us connecting through a hole below where it all mount to the frames Brian -sorry I am not that au-fait with what the bits are called.
This photo should explain it better - DJH have us mounting through the screw in the green square but in reality it should be mounted higher up via the mounting in the red square as per Mick's prototype shot above - Thanks Mick I had never noticed that before despite taking dozens of shots of A4 valve gear.....
This photo should explain it better - DJH have us mounting through the screw in the green square but in reality it should be mounted higher up via the mounting in the red square as per Mick's prototype shot above - Thanks Mick I had never noticed that before despite taking dozens of shots of A4 valve gear.....
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Very helpful indeed, Mick. And thanks for looking for the drawings, but you've described the problem admirably here. I may even have a works drawing in one of the reference works I have here. It's just an issue of a non-engineer interpreting them!
I've rechecked the DJH instructions and they are clearly wrong, with the mount for the radius arm joining with the reverser lifting arm via a location on the expansion link which is lower than the pivot point - hence the problem. (I'll look at the 9F as well, to see if that set up is the same). I'll also check the Isinglass drawings because I have a feeling that they show the correct orientation - I made yet another assumption that the DJH instructions would be correct! However, correction of this error looks to be easy, so next time you see the loco......
May I ask a question from a position of total ignorance? I interpreted the valve gear as working by the reversing arm causing the radius arm to lift up and down by sliding in the expansion link (hope I have the names of these parts correct, otherwise this is
Which then raises a supplementary question of academic interest only, at the moment, although when I come to my 2-6-4 tanks it will be a prime concern - what setting do you put on the valve gear in such a case where locos will run as often in reverse as forwards?
The group help here is absolutely wonderful, so thank you all.
Brian
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Glad to see that my set up - a la DJH - is the same as yours. I wonder how they could get somethong so fundamentally important so wrong. (I'd better check my Oakville Black 5 too.....)
Your photo demonstrates exactly the same issue as on mine, Rob. Fortunately I'm not yet at an unrecoverable stage - I hope that you will be able to deal with yours comfortably too, and without wrecking all that work.
I've been
Brian
Dikitriki
Flying Squad
Hi Rob
When the radius rod is below the trunnions that mount the expansion link in the support bracket (as you, Brian and I have got it) the valve gear is in forward gear, thus imparting fore and aft movement to the radius rod and the top of the combination lever.
When the radius rod is above the middle of the expansion link, the valve gear is in reverse.
The radius rod slides right past the middle mounting of the expansion link.
Mick's picture merely shows it mid-gear.
Richard
warren haywood
Western Thunderer
Rob, your model is in forward gear, the picture of the a4 is in mid gear, if it were in reverse gear the position of the rod would be higher. There is nothing wrong with what you have done.
Brian, again yours is modelled in forward gear, it's the angle of the reverser linkage that needs altering
Not easy to explain when you can't remember what all the bits are called
Warren
Brian, again yours is modelled in forward gear, it's the angle of the reverser linkage that needs altering
Not easy to explain when you can't remember what all the bits are called
Warren
Dikitriki
Flying Squad
Hi Brian
You servo operate the reversing arm so the radius rod falls (forward) or rises (reverse) according to the direction of travel
I know there are exceptions to this, I'm trying to keep it simple.Richard
warren haywood
Western Thunderer
Ha ha must have posted at same time as Richard
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Thanks again to all.
Yes, I can see it now. What a nuisance - I'll need to find a way of extending the reversing rod. I'll also need to check the instructions again as - heaven forbid - it may be me, not them.
Despite the pain in but I can feel coming on it'll be good, and even relatively easy, to put it right.
Brian
Yes, I can see it now. What a nuisance - I'll need to find a way of extending the reversing rod. I'll also need to check the instructions again as - heaven forbid - it may be me, not them.
Despite the pain in but I can feel coming on it'll be good, and even relatively easy, to put it right.
Brian
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
I hate you clever people.
But seriously thanks, Richard. I was thinking of adding a piece on the end, supported from behind and all sorts. I must admit to having wondered what the rivetted strip was for. Now I know.
You've solved the problem in one swell foop.
Brian
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
It's interesting to note that DJH have us connecting through a hole below where it all mount to the frames Brian -sorry I am not that au-fait with what the bits are called.
This photo should explain it better - DJH have us mounting through the screw in the green square but in reality it should be mounted higher up via the mounting in the red square as per Mick's prototype shot above - Thanks Mick I had never noticed that before despite taking dozens of shots of A4 valve gear.....
Hello Rob,
If I may point out one thing, the part in the red box is upside down and inside out. In that the single dot should be at the bottom and the half etch should be formed into "rivets".
It would also look better if the lifting link was on the outside of the radius rod. On the real thing there are two of them. One inside and one outside.
OzzyO.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
The saga continues but this phase is probably now reaching a conclusion.
Checking the Isinglass drawings I find that the loco is in mid gear so, although the lifting link is square the layout doesn't follow the pattern for a loco in forward gear.
Reviewing the instructions the issue is really in the isometric drawings which constitute a large part of the build instructions. If I'd known more about the intricacies of the valve gear I'd have realised that the lifting link was the wrong shape, but the way the DJH drawing is laid out it looks as if the angle I've used is about right. So the drawing is not wrong, it's down to my inadequacies. You lives and you learns.
I looked at the loco this afternoon and the extension of the reversing rod is not too much of a trial using Richard's suggestion. However, at the moment the loco as it stands is a bit of a shelf queen until I've finished the 9F. Interestingly the lifting link on the 9F is in a single part so the error from the A3 can't be reproduced (although I will no doubt be able to create very many new ones)....... and then there's the Sentinel......
I'll continue this thread when I pick up the A3 again.
Brian
Checking the Isinglass drawings I find that the loco is in mid gear so, although the lifting link is square the layout doesn't follow the pattern for a loco in forward gear.
Reviewing the instructions the issue is really in the isometric drawings which constitute a large part of the build instructions. If I'd known more about the intricacies of the valve gear I'd have realised that the lifting link was the wrong shape, but the way the DJH drawing is laid out it looks as if the angle I've used is about right. So the drawing is not wrong, it's down to my inadequacies. You lives and you learns.
I looked at the loco this afternoon and the extension of the reversing rod is not too much of a trial using Richard's suggestion. However, at the moment the loco as it stands is a bit of a shelf queen until I've finished the 9F. Interestingly the lifting link on the 9F is in a single part so the error from the A3 can't be reproduced (although I will no doubt be able to create very many new ones)....... and then there's the Sentinel......
I'll continue this thread when I pick up the A3 again.
Brian