DJH A3

Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Dad,
Looking at your photos in post #27, there is no way that your model is in mid gear. It's actually pretty much full-forwards. Your suffering with the Isinglass drawings; they're all well researched, but the quality of the drafting is something to be desired. It may also be that the artist responsible doesn't know how valve gear works!
In terms of research material you've got a copy of the HMRS papers and I think you've got a copy of the Reidinger book? . Might be worth having a look at the relevant sections...
Steph
 
oldravendale

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Steph Dale said:
Dad,
Looking at your photos in post #27, there is no way that your model is in mid gear. It's actually pretty much full-forwards. Your suffering with the Isinglass drawings; they're all well researched, but the quality of the drafting is something to be desired. It may also be that the artist responsible doesn't know how valve gear works!
In terms of research material you've got a copy of the HMRS papers and I think you've got a copy of the Reidinger book? . Might be worth having a look at the relevant sections...
Steph
Click to expand...

Hi Steph.

Actually I realise that it's in full forward gear which is where I want it. Hence the brief discussion earlier about what to do with a Walschaerts tank loco. It's built according to the DJH instructions which I've concluded are correct but open to misinterpretation - and as I don't know how Walschaerts valve gear works and as most of my reference photos of A3s are stationary in mid gear, as are the profile drawings by Isinglass, even though accurate, my ignorance lead me to a hole down which I dutifully fell. Thanks to the help on this group the situation is quite easily recovered.

However it's been a valuable experience as it's an error which will not be repeated.

Dad/Brian
 
oldravendale

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
warren haywood said:
You could always follow the Bachman method and just not bother with any reversing arms
Click to expand...

What a good idea, Warren. However, I like to see all the bits going round and round and up and down. It sort of makes all the effort worthwhile.

BTW, another lovely paint job.:)

Brian
 
Rob Pulham

Rob Pulham

Western Thunderer
OzzyO said:
Hello Rob,

If I may point out one thing, the part in the red box is upside down and inside out. In that the single dot should be at the bottom and the half etch should be formed into "rivets".

It would also look better if the lifting link was on the outside of the radius rod. On the real thing there are two of them. One inside and one outside.

OzzyO.
Click to expand...


Thanks Paul,
Fortunately all are easily solvable - The plate is soldered to the end of the screw that you can see on Brian's version. So the upside down bit just needs a twist of the screw to correct. Instead of taking it of and reversing it I think that I will drill it and add some scale hardware screws to make it a bit more authentic. The lifting link is also an easy fix.

I am just at the point of reassembly so the timing of this discussion couldn't have been better for me.
 
oldravendale

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Further to my post #25 on this thread a million years ago (I keep telling myself not to exaggerate) I've now fixed the reach rod to combination lever link. I've also chopped the brake gear about following my discussion with Steph. The A3 now goes like - well, an express train. Photos to follow, although apart from the obvious change to the reversing gear tyhere's not much to see - yet.

On Thursday I'll be doing some testing on the club's layout before stripping it down for painting. That's weather dependant.

Brian
 
oldravendale

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Here are the photos I promised.

IMG_2397.JPGIMG_2398.JPG

This is the finished loco, ready for running in. I've tested on a short length of track and there may be some residual shorting issues with the brake gear but it's pretty well OK. I'll test it further on the club layout and determine the origin of any of these problems. Hopefully I'll be able to correct them without major surgery. I also need to check the ride height as I believe there may be a tendency for the third set of driving wheels to clout the underside of the footplate. If the ride height is good it'll need some minor surgery to relieve this area. If it's running on the low side I'll just give a couple of turns on the hornblock screws which should sort the problem out.

IMG_2399.JPG

Finally the reversing gear. Hopefully I have that sorted out now.

All thoughts, comments and criticisms will be welcome so I can correct them before I take the loco to the pain shops.

Onward and upward - the 9F next, around which I'll start the "K" and the Finney A3.

Brian
 
Scale7JB

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
Hi Brian,

Another issue, I'm afraid..

On the right hand side of the engine, the reversing rod should be inside of the supporting frame, otherwise it could never lift the reach rid to the top of the expansion link for reverse gear..

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news..

JB.
 
oldravendale

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Scale7JB said:
Hi Brian,

Another issue, I'm afraid..

On the right hand side of the engine, the reversing rod should be inside of the supporting frame, otherwise it could never lift the reach rid to the top of the expansion link for reverse gear..

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news..

JB.
Click to expand...

Please don't apologise. I need to know!

Actually, with the separating of the reversing gear on the questionnable side I think I've trapped the gear on the other side. I'll habe a look tomorrow, but in any event it's a small adjustment and it will be my template for future Waschaerts locos.

Many thanks.

Brian
 
oldravendale

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Yep. Looking at a previous pic it was correct. I assumed that the previously good side would be OK and didn't check it!:headbang:

More to do tomorrow, then!

B
 
mickoo

mickoo

Western Thunderer
oldravendale said:
Here are the photos I promised.

View attachment 34387View attachment 34388

This is the finished loco, ready for running in. I've tested on a short length of track and there may be some residual shorting issues with the brake gear but it's pretty well OK. I'll test it further on the club layout and determine the origin of any of these problems. Hopefully I'll be able to correct them without major surgery. I also need to check the ride height as I believe there may be a tendency for the third set of driving wheels to clout the underside of the footplate. If the ride height is good it'll need some minor surgery to relieve this area. If it's running on the low side I'll just give a couple of turns on the hornblock screws which should sort the problem out.

View attachment 34389

Finally the reversing gear. Hopefully I have that sorted out now.

All thoughts, comments and criticisms will be welcome so I can correct them before I take the loco to the pain shops.

Onward and upward - the 9F next, around which I'll start the "K" and the Finney A3.

Brian
Click to expand...
That looks nice:thumbs: I can feel the need for an A3 in my life in the future;) and will probably opt for the DA one when all said and done, with a high sided tender of course LOL.

On the A3 if I may be so bold, the front sanding pipe is often bent back toward the wheel a little, I don't know which loco you have mdelled so it may have straight pipes, in which case apologies, and, I think there should be a sanding pipe in front of the intermediate wheel as well, there appears to be a sand box lid above where it would be? I know sanding arrangements changed over the years on many types of loco, so you may have the correct option for the loco and period chosen, just minor observations from the locos I've looked at for my future projects. Without looking at my reference material (currently at work <sigh>) I can't remember if A3s were retro fitted with steam sanders or retained gravity fed, or mixed and matched depending on era or axle.

The 9F will be watched with interest, sorry if it's been mentioned before, but I'm going to guess it's the DJH one you have?
 
oldravendale

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
mickoo said:
On the A3 if I may be so bold, the front sanding pipe is often bent back toward the wheel a little, I don't know which loco you have mdelled so it may have straight pipes, in which case apologies, and, I think there should be a sanding pipe in front of the intermediate wheel as well, there appears to be a sand box lid above where it would be? I know sanding arrangements changed over the years on many types of loco, so you may have the correct option for the loco and period chosen, just minor observations from the locos I've looked at for my future projects. Without looking at my reference material (currently at work <sigh>) I can't remember if A3s were retro fitted with steam sanders or retained gravity fed, or mixed and matched depending on era or axle.

The 9F will be watched with interest, sorry if it's been mentioned before, but I'm going to guess it's the DJH one you have?
Click to expand...
Ah yes, I forgot to mention that I'd not completed the sand pipes - in fact one is missing. And they will be curved towards the wheel tread.

Not sure about the intermediate wheel sanders. I'll have another look at my photos. I'll also check regarding whether this loco was fitted with steam sanders although I'm pretty sure it wasn't. However, help me out here - how will I know?

Best regards and thanks for your comments.

Brian
 
mickoo

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Brian, gravity usually just have one pipe for the sand, steam have an extra pipe that joins the sand pipe near the nozzle. Gravity are usually almost straight down, steam bend a lot and are almost parallel with the rail head and shoot the sand directly into the gap between rail head and wheel, gravity trickles downward and lays on the rail head. Britannias have steam sanders. I'll check my A3 books when I get home.
 
mickoo

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Brian,

Early A3's, actually A1's, had steam sanders all round, these were, are, only fitted in front of the leading and driving coupled axles, no provision for sanding is made (or was ever made) for reverse running.

The leading axle sand box is high up in the frames and necessitated a long delivery pipe, the driving axle sand box is very low down and is just visible between the springs below the chassis and thus a very short delivery pipes.

The leading sand delivery arrangement was problematical, so was revised to the Swindon gravity feed arrangement and it looks like the steam pipe removed.

So, early batches of A1' locos had two sets of identical sand delivery arrangements. Later locos and refitted locos had the Swindon gravity system for the leading axle only.

Here's two photos of an A4, as far as I can tell they're pretty much the same arrangements.

Leading gravity discharge pipe, note looks like slightly larger diameter to steam fed pipe below.
IMG_7380.jpg

Steam fed sand pipe for driving axle, note extra small copper pipe for steam delivery, also of note the sand box, you can just see it's tapered base behind the brake block to the right, a much shorter delivery pipe, A3's from the GA I have are almost identical.
IMG_0886a.JPG

Original engines had two delivery pipes like the above, later only one at the driving (middle) axle, yours is correct but may need a little bend to bring it a little close to the wheel/rail contact point, some A3 leading pipes are curved like the above, some are two straights with a kink half way down.

Hope that helps.
 
oldravendale

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
That is really helpful. Thank you again!

It therefore appears that my A3 is correct, at least in this regard, as it's to be in early 1960s condition - it was one of the locos that never received smoke deflectors. Looking at the sand pipe as it is at the moment suggests that it may be a bit short by the time it's bent to shape but it won't be a problem to replace. Nowadays I like to give decent clearance above the rail head - too often they have been a source of shorting (haven't they, Yorkshire Dave?)

Yet again I've learned something - how to tell gravity fed sand pipes from the steam delivery version.

Best regards.

Brian
 
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