Does Anyone Know Where or When?

[oldravendale]

I've done a search of my prototype photos on here and have failed to locate this one, so I may be in the clear.... I have one of an A1 or A2 which is somewhat similar. I'll have a look for that one too.

B

 

[Bob Reid]

Its just coming off the Royal Border Bridge after Berwick heading South towards Tweedmouth - the next small viaduct passes over the A698

Bob

 

[adrian]

I think it rang a bell with Stonehaven for me.

Prototype - Can anyone identify Where & When?

I can't find a photo from a similar location but the topography and long curved white station canopy just seemed familiar to me. Apologies if I've sent you off in a wild goose chase.

 

[Bob Reid]

Not a white station canopy Adrian, it's the roof of the main stand at Shielfield Park home to Berwick Rangers FC...... Definitely not Stonehaven

 

[adrian]

Definitely not Stonehaven

Thanks for the clarification - at least I was in the right region (more or less!) with the Borders.

 

[JimG]

I could be completely off the mark but I seem to remember a very very similar photo on here or RMWeb last year and that turned out to be the Scottish Borders if I remember correctly. That's going to bug me now until I find it - thanks!

I nould agree with Adrian about it being somewhere in Scotland - the houses look like typical Scottish council houses.

Jim.

 

[JimG]

I nould agree with Adrian about it being somewhere in Scotland - the houses look like typical Scottish council houses.

Jim.

Well, just about in Scotland.

Jim.

 

[Bob Reid]

What does nobody believe me it's Berwick? well Nr Tweedmouth if you want to be a bit more precise - Northumberland in Englandshire nonetheless - I'm opening a book with long odds and placing my best hat on it!

Here's a modern overview;


Take a line from the end of the Royal Border Bridge, through the end of the second (small) viaduct and Berwick Rangers ground is just off to the left. The factory (a Bakery) has gone, but the allotments in the photo are still there - new houses being built on the site of the Bakery. Berwick Rangers moved into Shielfield Park in 1954 after playing Giant killers in the Scottish Cup and in the same year, they bought that stand with the bright shiny roof secondhand from Bradford City in late 1954 rebuilding it at Shielfield Park. Given the car, the clubs history, the shiny roof on the stand and the lack of obvious BR Maroon stock - all the obvious ones are Br Crimson Lake & Cream, I'd have to say 1955!

 

[oldravendale]

That's pretty conclusive again - many thanks. And for date? Is there general agreement on the car and therefore my guess on the date? Unfortunately the advertising hoarding can't be read, as that could give a half way decent clue. Really good stuff to locate it so quickly, though.

Adrian - I wonder if this is the photo you've seen already.



This went to one of the LNER sites some time ago, and these are the responses:

"Comments from LNER Study Group Journal Summer 2011:From Tom Scrimgeour:In the case of the second photograph (above right), I cannot identify the location but noting that the viaduct is crossing a tidal estuary / river and that the cottage (toll house?) architecture looks Scottish style. I have looked at various OS maps of coastal lines in Scotland without success.
Mike Bootman adds:
Brian Dale has been very generous in sharing his photos and one of his hopes by so doing was to identify locations and the subject matter.
I was looking at the second photo earlier today and had come to the same conclusion as you in that the bridge crosses a tidal estuary and, assuming that it is on the east side of the country, the photo was taken quite early in the morning - look at the long shadows to the left of railway bridge. It's interesting to note the difference in height between the railway and the road, and the fact that the road bridge might only have one small span across the estuary - quite a restriction as far as water flow is concerned - and suggests that the coastline is relatively high at this point.
An 'overflight' using one of the internet mapping sites is probably called for."

We never got any further with this one.

Looking at this photo again I notice a few photographers alongside the road which suggests this might be a special, and even quite late on in the time of steam if an A1 or A2 attracts photographers to the East Coast which must have seen plenty of these in the past. There's also that car - it looks to me like a 1940s/50s Princess, or even a Daimler, but in the mid 60s that would have been an anachronism even then.

Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks Bob.

I was writing mine as yours was arriving, so the date looks as though it's nailed, as well as location. Great piece of detective work.

Brian

 

[adrian]

What does nobody believe me it's Berwick?

My apologies I didn't make it clear but I did believe you.

This Britain from Above photo (1949) also indicates what seems to be a chimney between the two bridges as seen in Brian's photo.



The Royal Border, Royal Tweed and Berwick Bridges and the town, Berwick-upon-Tweed, 1949 | Britain from Above

 

[Bob Reid]

View attachment 63880

Brian

Ferryden Viaduct south of Montrose (it's the brick one south of the rather more recognisable South Esk Viaduct) the road (Inch) bridge has long gone - in 1972? some eejit decided to fill in the south channel and reclaimed the land for Oil Industry development and covered the bridge plonking a roundabout on top of it making it total unrecognisable these days compared to back when that photo was taken.



p.s. The advertisement in the earlier Berwick photo appears to be good old "Brylcreem"

 

[adrian]

Ferryden Viaduct south of Montrose

Again courtesy of Britain from Above - even with matching hay sheaves but in the other field!



Montrose, general view. An oblique aerial photograph taken facing north-east. | Britain from Above

 

[Bob Reid]

No need for the earlier apologies Adrian!

before (as in the photo);


And after....


Bob Reid

p.s. My wife (of farming stock) says those are "Stooks" in the field (sheaves are the wee bundles that were gathered to make up a stook apparently

 

[oldravendale]

I'm in wonderment!

Location totally nailed. And that lovely rural scene gone forever. Oh well, that's progress.

I'll be updating the descriptions with this info, chaps. Now that I'm getting to the end of the scanning and photoshopping process there will be a fair few more of these. Some are really nice photos with very limited info, so to build up data like this is enormously helpful. As for the earlier photo, Bob, you could well be right about the advert. That, together with the car, makes 1955 - ish quite likely. Thank you again.

Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Here's another which I believe to be an impossible challenge regarding location. However, some comments before someone tells me that it's a rubbish picture (which it is). Technically poor and from a 127 neg which suggests it was probably a first camera for someone. However:

It's a diesel piloting a steam loco. Numbers are not decipherable. Not totally unheard of but not hugely common. Then the oil train - no barrier wagon between the steam loco and first oil wagon. I suspect it's late in steam days, somewhere in the North West.

Finally I wonder whether these wagons give us a guide to the potential date - at least a bracket between dates which this photo must be.

Any help on this one?



Brian

 

[mickoo]

Split code class 40 with small yellow panel so post 62/63, steam engine is 8F.

Location, could be S&C or WCML in the hills up north.

MD

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks Mick. That's 100% more detail than I had previously.

I had thought the steam loco to be a Black 5, but you are correct - the footplate height confirms it to be an 8F and you found details on the Class 40 which I'd simply not found previously. I assume some of the Class 40s carried this livery as late as 1968 which gives this a six year window.

And - here's another. I think the loco is possibly 62663, Prince Albert by playing around with the contrast on a higher def copy, but any details about date or place elude me.



Brian

 

[mickoo]

I think class 40's got full yellow as did most diesels earlier, might have been the odd one or two small panel ones lingering on, I've been keeping a spreadsheet with yellow panels, half and full on green class 40's, trying to find that one photo of a 40 with yellow panel dated to coincide with Princess Royals still working, which is late 62.

I'd say it's more earlier than later as the 8F is still steam tight, they tendered to get rather worse for wear in their later years and I can still see the number and tender totem, so it's been cleaned or ex works, in later years they were just pure filth on the whole.

Second shot, no idea, could be anywhere on the GC or even Scotland, but once you have a location the date shouldn't be too hard as that looks like a new or rebuilt bridge in the background. Given all the point rods to the left and to the right behind the hut there's a fair bet there's a signal box just to the right behind the photographer or in close proximity.

MD

 

[Steph Dale]

That bridge is certainly distinctive, but could be virtually anywhere.

Prince Albert did a good few railtours in the early sixties, included in that was an occasion when she even got stuck on the Southern for a period. This might genuinely be the prototype for everything.

Steph