Dublingham Goods Station

Discussion in 'Layout Progress' started by 76043, 26 October 2017.

  1. 76043

    76043 Western Thunderer

    Also in Midland Record 17 is a second article on recollections of Birmingham Central by a former fireman and signalman at the depot. Tales of mishaps stemming from the steep failing gradient into the depot make some shunting operations I've seen at model railway exhibitions seem perfectly reasonable and prototypical. Derailments due to poor track work being very common along with engines running out of braking power and crashing through the depot wall onto the busy main road. But my favourite is derailing a bogie parcels coach in the approach tunnel which became wedged in stopping all movements in and out of the depot seem all too familiar, I'm sure I've seen this at a show!! ;)

    I hope to emulate this with my cameo layout!!!
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  2. Threadmark: Failures

    76043 Western Thunderer

    I've made a test rig to test the HD/simplex couplings, I'm using the PECO HD uncoupler, product code SL-30 for those that want one (ha ha!) and amazingly still in production. (we all know Peco held the patent for the HD couplings and licensed it to HD don't we?)

    Anyway, it uncouples very well, no problems, so does it's job perfectly. However, I am let down by the metal HD uncoupler.jpg couplings, because they don't like re-coupling, the plastic ones work well, less friction. But that's not really the problem, what you may not get from the pic below is that the third rail cannot be used through the uncoupler because it raises up the collector shoe, so my 08 being short will stall and not have the reach to pick up wagons on the other side of the uncoupler. Mind you, I do have plans for a Dublo 8F with 60:1 gears...

    This is not bad news for the project, because in the October 2014 Railway Modeller contained an article on using the HD/simplex coupler the writer explained the use of a simple shunting stick. I have since tested with the rounded end of a small paint brush and found that the 'hand of god shunting stick' works extremely well and importantly very quickly. It's aided by the fact that the wagons do not have pin point bearings so don't move easily.

    So that's coupling/uncoupling sorted, and to think Mr Rice didn't even mention the simplex coupler as a suitable option in the Cameo book... ;)

    Reading this post again I can't quite believe I am writing in 2018, but then March's BRM is the 'Vintage Issue', so maybe I am in vogue!!
    Last edited: 9 February 2018
    jonte likes this.
  3. geoff_nicholls

    geoff_nicholls Western Thunderer

    Well, if you're operating by the rulebook, then a shunting pole adds to the authenticity. Just so long as it can be done smoothly and quickly in an exhibition situation, by both yourself and your assistant operators.
  4. 76043

    76043 Western Thunderer

    Thanks Geoff, yes agreed. I'm also keen on tooting before moving. Shunting wasn't as quick as model auto couplings allow, so slowing things down a little is no bad thing. My previously published timetable means shunting has to be done in a timely way anyway.

    The use of a shunting stick with HD couplings seems to be a flick action, similar in speed to how real shunters flicked couplings on and off the hook, so I am reasonably satisfied with the action.

    Conceptually I prefer this to auto couplings because real shunting requires human intervention, albeit I am completely out of scale with the layout!

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  5. Threadmark: Things I should know

    76043 Western Thunderer

    I've noticed a strange time format in working timetables for a while now but didn't think too much about it, I was generally annoyed by it as it is little difficult to immediately decipher being used to the 24 hour clock, or military clock as it turns out it also can be referred to, another aspect I had no knowledge of until now.

    So times described as 8.5 or 11/1 are in fact 08:05 and 23:01 in 24 hour format and UK railways almost exclusively used this format right up to 1965 according to one internet source. The dot refers to AM and the slash PM, with no unnecessary zeros.

    I will apply this format to the accompanying monitor display of the timetable.

    This is something I should have been aware of, so thanks to Midland Record No.18 pg.65 for putting me right!
    Len Cattley likes this.
  6. Threadmark: Planning

    76043 Western Thunderer

    Here's the latest layout plan for the cameo, after reading up on the operation of Birmingham Central, I felt a run round might be advisable as whilst some trains were propelled into the yard, there was still a need for a run round combined with arrival & departure roads. My arrival & departure area has been combined into one road. I've also managed to only add one extra point, which will be a relief as the wiring for '3 railed' PECO points will be a little complicated.

    The cameo section is now a little larger at 1.25m, up from 1.1m, with a larger fiddle yard. The shape of the layout has gone more conventional as a result and possibly a little easier to build. I do have some blue foam sheets that maybe could become the basis of the layout AKA Longwood Edge style construction, with completely removable facia and lighting.

    Dublingham Goods Station-v11h.png
    Last edited: 18 February 2018
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  7. Threadmark: Construction

    76043 Western Thunderer

    A couple of flat knot free sheets of 5.5mm exterior plywood were procured today for the baseboards. I'm looking at a ply and wood frame supporting the blue foam, rather similar to how this US modeller uses pink foam.

    Construction Log

    He and others in the US have described not having a ply baseboard top, stuck to the foam, just sticking items directly to the foam, again similar to the Longwood Edge pics in the Cameo book.
    Last edited: 23 February 2018
  8. Ressaldar

    Ressaldar Western Thunderer

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  9. 76043

    76043 Western Thunderer

    Thank you Mike for the photos and drawing, seems to be more or less what I am thinking except my foam is only 30mm thick so will need more support. I'm using 30mm for two reasons, first, it was going free and second, I don't want to use the thicker foam because I am concerned about access to wiring etc.

    30mm seems stable enough for the small baseboard size I am proposing.

    Can I ask what the glue is in the caulk gun?
    Thanks again
  10. Ressaldar

    Ressaldar Western Thunderer

    Hi Tony,

    All that I can remember about the adhesive is that was solvent free and was bought at the local B&Q and it worked.

    I assume that you will be using Peco point motors and fixing them directly to the underside of the point. If you use tortoise or the like then you are into cutting rebates into the top surface of the Styrofoam to fix ply pads to then fix the motor on - at 30 thick, there will not be much meat left in the board.

    I look forward to seeing your progress photos in the near future.


  11. 76043

    76043 Western Thunderer

    Thanks Mike, yes, I am using Peco motors, so agreed once those holes go in there isn't much meat left, so I am factoring in more ply support.

    I haven't used blue foam since leaving the architectural modelmaking business (often with @unklian) nearly 20 years ago and can't remember what glue we used. During my first year HND modelmaking course we made a blue foam three pin plug 10x normal size, I have a photo somewhere, but am sure we used PVA, which took forever to dry. PVA works for me in terms of the plywood side of things, so I'll do some testing.

  12. jonte

    jonte Western Thunderer

    Hi Tony

    If memory serves me right, Gordon Gravett used foam bound in thin ply for the board formers of his latest creation ‘Arun Quay’. I think he also mentioned a similar problem with Pva in the article so resorted to an alternative adhesive.

    I’ll see if I can find the article in MRJ and update you.

  13. jonte

    jonte Western Thunderer

    Hi again Tony.

    I remembered that the article (albeit in a briefer format) also appeared in a Railway Modeller that I bought at the airport last year as Geoff’s Llangunllo was in it.

    As this was to hand, I had a quick butcher’s. Turns out he used ‘No more Nails’, but also stated that a hot glue gun would have been quicker.

    Hope that helps.

  14. 76043

    76043 Western Thunderer

    Thanks Jonte, that's very kind of you to dig out that information. No-more nails would work for me if it's viscosity isn't too thick, as the build up of glue can stop the whole thing sitting well together. I saw some going cheap at a local Tesco recently, so if I can get hold of some I will do some testing.

    My experience with hot-glue guns over large areas is that it starts to set before you can get the whole thing together, it might also melt the foam if too hot.

    Thanks again for the info though, much appreciated.
    jonte likes this.
  15. Threadmark: planning

    76043 Western Thunderer

    Thought I should actually measure the stock including distance between couplings and check all sits in the sidings and fiddle yard as planned with the timetable, so produced the following diagram to assist. It does mean the run round has moved, and also includes a brake van, which could be left at the end of the run round I suppose. My milk dock can unload two tankers at a time, meaning the tanks need to be swapped, and the perishable depot is not long enough to unload all the wagons, so these to are my shunting inconveniences. The cattle dock at the end of the pair of mileage sidings, needs a little more space to allow road vehicles to pass between the run round so that this siding could also accommodate general merchandise. The 08 is marked up in black.

    No idea if any of this is super prototypical or even vaguely, but I've been reading like mad and hope I have done enough research.

    Dublingham Goods Station-v11h-train-lengths.png
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  16. unklian

    unklian Western Thunderer

    I can confirm that No-nails works well sticking hard foam to ply or hardboard. I seem to remember using thick Superglue to stick foam together in the past, putting glue on one surface and accelerator on the other. Sticktion was more or less instant though so you had to get it right first time. As long as you are not too generous in application No-nails makes for quite tight strong joints, the key is to clamp or weight it while it sets . I used a hard insulation foam 50mm thick clad in 3mm hardboard to make the base for my 1/6th scale garage diorama http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/mojo-repair-works.5128/#post-131570 . The foam I used came ( I think it was from B&Q or Wickes ) in a fetching shade of pink ! In this snap shot pieces of the foam cut 3mm undersize, have been stuck to a sheet of hardboard cut to the area/size required . More No-nails has been applied to the top for the top layer of hardboard .....

    Garage base 2.JPG

    Which is carefully lined up with the lower layer to give a 3mm overhang all round, and then weighted down with 'proper' baseboards, again to make it as flat as poss....

    Garage base 3.JPG

    Then strips of hardboard are No-nailed into the rebated edges, with wood glue applied to the edges of the hardboard for the hardboard to hardboard joints. Smoothed off and painted with grey emulsion it looked like this . Despite only being supported at the edges it has held up the contents of the garage with very little signs of sagging for a fair few years now .

    Garage base 4.JPG
    Last edited: 25 February 2018
  17. 76043

    76043 Western Thunderer

    Thanks Ian for a very comprehensive reply, much appreciated. My gluing technique was always to put too much on and suffer the consequences, so nice to see restraint on quantities.
  18. 76043

    76043 Western Thunderer

    Ian, just looked at the pic of your garage diorama, was that a commercial job or for yourself? It's brilliant either way.
  19. Threadmark: Planning

    76043 Western Thunderer

    Having got proficient with Sketchup via my work, I wanted to visualise the baseboard so that I make it right first time. I haven't made any models for myself since before I was an architectural modelmaker, but having learnt through work that rushing in doesn't work I now slow down. This 'slow' approach has worked well with my rolling stock builds as it has meant I thought it through before cutting. I do wish to put a cover on the top of the main section, but left it off 'for clarity'. :)

    'Think twice, cut once', to paraphrase that old saying!

    Baseboard-view1.png Baseboard-view2.png
  20. unklian

    unklian Western Thunderer

    Hi Tony, missed your comment somehow, thank you . The garage is my project and started as a way of displaying some 1/6th scale model bikes . It has also been exercising my figure sculpting and making skills, as well as becoming a collecting obsession for tools and accessories at 1/6th scale . Been getting a bit dusty recently though ......
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