Prototype Ex-GER Y14 (LNER J15) preserved at the North Norfolk Railway

Eastsidepilot

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
On page 9 of the Yeadon's book you'll find the earliest photo ( 1913 ) of N31 959 at Colchester. This has the transverse strips across the roof and it is in my opinion, looking at the evidence we have, that this is how the roofs were built and then when we get into the '20's the longitudinal rain strips start to appear and the transverse strips are no longer fitted.
The first 4mm drawing in LG 017 showing the loco's as built by Sharp Stuart would be appropriate for your 1890's loco.

N31 959 Colchester.png
 
simond

simond

Western Thunderer
Richard,
IF you build the engine without a photo of your chosen number then it is almost certain one will turn up shortly after your finished model takes to the rails.
Ian.


Happened to me…. Ask @daifly :)
 
Richard Gawler

Richard Gawler

Western Thunderer
Y14 number 825 with boiler bands.jpg
I suggest, this photo of 825 (D20, built 1887) was taken before 1900 or so because the loco has not yet been retro-fitted with brakes.

There is a transverse element across the back of the roof, and if I view the photo at 400% there is a hint of something, a change in the light near the centre of the roof. As though there was a transverse element there too.

Screenshot 2023-01-13 15.06.55.png

So to avoid doubt, I think I should be making a roof like this, taken from the sixth page of the file containing LG17 and labelled "LB06a. GER class Y14 (LNER J15) 0-6-0".
 
Richard Gawler

Richard Gawler

Western Thunderer
simond said:
Richard,
IF you build the engine without a photo of your chosen number then it is almost certain one will turn up shortly after your finished model takes to the rails.
Ian.


Happened to me…. Ask @daifly :)
Click to expand...
Years ago I worked for six different companies all with the same staff and premises, we said the sign for the company name should be held up with Velcro. I will fix the number plates with varnish not CA.
 
Eastsidepilot

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Richard Gawler said:
Years ago I worked for six different companies all with the same staff and premises, we said the sign for the company name should be held up with Velcro. I will fix the number plates with varnish not CA.
Click to expand...
If you use UHU contact adhesive ( don't need a lot of it ) you'll find that number or name plates are easily removed with a sharpened flat strip of thin ply say 1.5mm or a lolly stick / coffee stirrer :thumbs:
 
Richard Gawler

Richard Gawler

Western Thunderer
I have added the transverse strips across the roof of my model (photos on my workbench topic), and I think this was worthwhile - they add some character to the loco at a place which would otherwise look a bit bland.

I am now having a think about the reverser. Unfortunately I didn't get any photos of this during my "field trip" where this topic started - I only had a viewpoint from the same side of the loco.

Brooks tells me,

"The reversing reach-rod was forked at the upper end and
embraced the reversing screw nut. Pins on either side were
carried in two slotted guides which were attached to the
reversing handle mounting in the cab, the guides themselves
protruding through the cab front".

DSC_1935.jpg
In this photo, the length of wire protruding into the cab is below the reach rod and is sitting at the same angle.

Please does anyone have a photo of the arrangement of how the reach rod meets up with the handle mechanism? I am sure a view of either Col's or JB's model would be perfect.
 
Eastsidepilot

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Richard ,
If you take a look at drawing LG017 you'll see that the reach rod is on the same alignment as the screw on the reverser. I can't find a photo at present but I think it has a slotted clevis.

Col.
 
Osgood

Osgood

Western Thunderer
The hole in your cab for the reach rod looks to be too high and the w/m casting about right - your two photos below from previous posts indicate a cab / reach rod interface just above the locker?
P1040359.jpegP1040373.jpeg
 
Richard Gawler

Richard Gawler

Western Thunderer
WT really is a most refined and polite forum - in another place I can imagine the reply being "look at your own photos and the drawings we gave you"!

Brooks also tells me,
In the GER period a cover was provided over the guide-bars only on a passenger-fitted engine, presumably to protect them from splashes of oil and water thrown out by the Westinghouse pump, which was in close proximity.

so I will omit the cover and try to fashion some kind of representation of the fork and maybe the spindle of the reverser protruding through the front of the cab.
 
Richard Gawler

Richard Gawler

Western Thunderer
I am pondering the correct livery for my model Y14 to represent a loco built in 1891 or 1892 and running from then until 1899. Blue or black, lined or unlined.
  • I have an undated photo of loco 825 (a freight engine built 1887) in lined blue.
  • I have a photo of 912 (built in 1891 and photographed in 1896) retro-fitted fitted with steam brake, in lined blue
  • I have a photo of 930 (the 1892 built engine constructed in World Record time) in black but I cannot see any lining.

Brooks writes (in Great Eastern Journal no.36),
"The first Y14s were finished in the standard blue lively with
small lettering GER on the tender. From 1885 Holden
introduced larger tender lettering, but from about 1890 all
goods engines were painted black with lining and lettering as
before. By 1899 all Y14s would have been in black, with the
exception of the new passenger fitted engines 640-9 which
received full passenger livery, as did the subsequent engines
which were all dual fitted"

I suspect Brooks is telling me all I really need to know, though "from about 1890" has a bit of wriggle room.

Thinking about only locos built in batches S.28 and X.28 (numbers 925 to 945, built 1891-2), I wonder if anyone has seen a photo of any of these locos in lined blue? I suppose, I would love to have a blue engine but it is a bit daft to spend five months building a model engine and then choose a livery I know to be wrong. I'll be happy with lined black if I have no choice.
 
Eastsidepilot

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Richard Gawler said:
I am pondering the correct livery for my model Y14 to represent a loco built in 1891 or 1892 and running from then until 1899. Blue or black, lined or unlined.
  • I have an undated photo of loco 825 (a freight engine built 1887) in lined blue.
  • I have a photo of 912 (built in 1891 and photographed in 1896) retro-fitted fitted with steam brake, in lined blue
  • I have a photo of 930 (the 1892 built engine constructed in World Record time) in black but I cannot see any lining.

Brooks writes (in Great Eastern Journal no.36),
"The first Y14s were finished in the standard blue lively with
small lettering GER on the tender. From 1885 Holden
introduced larger tender lettering, but from about 1890 all
goods engines were painted black with lining and lettering as
before. By 1899 all Y14s would have been in black, with the
exception of the new passenger fitted engines 640-9 which
received full passenger livery, as did the subsequent engines
which were all dual fitted"

I suspect Brooks is telling me all I really need to know, though "from about 1890" has a bit of wriggle room.

Thinking about only locos built in batches S.28 and X.28 (numbers 925 to 945, built 1891-2), I wonder if anyone has seen a photo of any of these locos in lined blue? I suppose, I would love to have a blue engine but it is a bit daft to spend five months building a model engine and then choose a livery I know to be wrong. I'll be happy with lined black if I have no choice.
Click to expand...
Brooks also wrote an article, ' Updating Buckle' Y14 class 0-6-0's in Journal 133. There is a paragraph describing liveries. But I think this only repeats what you already know, has some nice photo's and drawings.

Col.
 
Richard Gawler

Richard Gawler

Western Thunderer
I have a logical date and an desirable date in mind.

Logically, I want to portray a Y14 running from 1896 to 1898 and without a steam brake. These years would be a good time to set my layout. All locos had a steam brake by 1900.

I would also like to set a scene in around 1908 and enjoy the same loco. The lack of a steam brake I can live with but a blue goods engine will stick out like a sore thumb.

I will seek out Journal no.133, but I think the die is cast. I will have to save blue for my freelance crane tank, pretend it is the pet of the foundry manager.
 
Richard Gawler

Richard Gawler

Western Thunderer
These photos are going to help me a lot. I know there is a modern saying, "don't think, ask" but do the controls for the steam brake and the train brake appear in these photos? So I know to omit them from my model.
 
Richard Gawler

Richard Gawler

Western Thunderer
Here are some photos of the preserved J15 before it received its GER-style makeover. I took these at the North Norfolk Railway on 11th October 2008, it seems a shame to leave them languishing on a hard drive at home.

DSC_0020.jpeg
1. Weybourne.

DSC_0099_2.jpeg
2. The carriage sheds would have been nearly new in 2008. Wonky headcode disc suits non-perfectionist model making but panel-beaten smokebox door seems very odd.

DSC_0132_2.jpeg
3. Ascent at Kelling Heath, steam-hauled trains do not stop here in this direction.

DSC_0148.jpeg
4. Weybourne again, the signal is the one in photo 1.

DSC_0160.jpeg
5. Sheringham.

DSC_0165.jpeg
6. Sheringham.

DSC_0174.jpeg
7. Sheringham, running round the train in photo 5.

DSC_0181.jpeg
Bonus pic: Sheringham on the same day, this was the end of the line before reinstatement of the connection to Network Rail and remodelling of the public gardens.

Looking at the timestamps on these photos, most likely I visited the railway by car and didn't actually travel on a train.
 
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