Finescale - of a sort?!

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Oh, how long we - drivers young and mature - have waited for this moment !!

Thanks Glenn for sharing that clip !!

P.S. A special thanks too to Robin, our own "Boyblunder" for all your advice and practical assistance to help make that happen!

Pete.
 
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Richard Insole

Western Thunderer
IT'S ALIVE!!

It seems like such a long way ago it last moved under its own power with the old plucky motor that could, even though it was deafeningly loud and slow However, Well done dad! It is fantastic to see it going.

Very exciting times ahead, it will be powering down the line in all its glory before we know it :)

Rich
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Having at last reached a significant milestone on the engine, and despite the ongoing health issues being somewhat compounded by an annoyingly persistent chest infection, the pace of the project seems to have picked up a little! Perhaps it is not just some sense of urgency alone, but also an impression that the goal is almost within grasping distance that is generating a bit more momentum ?!

The next major part, with whatever peculiar technique I might manage to decide upon, had been quietly bothering me for quite some time. Any questions, and the many lingering doubts, must however be resolved in the next few days, as I have now fully committed myself with the following action:

I recognised the essential requirement for an easily cut, chucked if necessary, and cut again template for the task. Thank goodness, (and Rod too!) for that splendid old mountboard stuff...

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Now I could see the shape of things to come! The route toward the destination may, typically for me, be a convoluted one though?

Nevertheless, having established the fit, the scalpel and saws were applied to some ply...

(and strip wood!)...

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The construction does look a bit quirky, or even bodged...? with extra holes in rather odd positions... ?! There is a reason - if that is indeed the word for it?:

The large saddle tank will have to be detachable in order to install and remove the battery for running sessions, so some form of reliable attachment system has to be devised, and using either loose or captive bolts, piano hinges or even draw sliding rails have been considered. Whichever method is finally chosen, there are some awkward fittings and fixtures to confound each theory!

Without any wish to be personally insulting, I am afraid that I feel compelled to mention that the enthusiast and author; Mr. M. Smithers, in what is regarded by some as a seminal publication on the subject of 18 inch gauge railways, unfortunately and unwittingly revealed a quite serious lack of observation skills, and therefore made some presumptive, and notably erroneous statements, particularly about the Horwich locomotives. Amongst them was a description of the "unique" and "unlike their Crewe predecessors" location of the blower valve - up forward and between the dome and chimney. He clearly hadn't looked very closely at the fair number of engineering drawings intended for, and then actually published in his own book, let alone studied any photographs that would contradict that notion. Furthermore, he also appears to have not fully understood the basic and fundamental principals that dictated the original design of the locomotives; that being the method of operation. John Ramsbottom's pioneering little Crewe tramway engines - and the inspiration for Aspinall's later version - were direct replacements for horses, that were primarily worked by a single, experienced "shunter" and a well trained animal. He would walk alongside and could be expected to let go the reins, move forward to change points and then let the beast and it's burden catch up. It is not so surprising then to note that the locomotives were configured to allow a similar way of working - and what might then have been regarded as an "efficient" practice! Why bother with a footplate then? The rather vestigial affairs provided were not much more than an occasional convenience, mainly used as a mount for passing through narrow, restricted spaces, and as a handy way of nipping over the "traces" while in motion. They were perfect for the driver to "pose" on for an official photo as well! There is not only a precious, ancient, and all too brief clip of moving film showing these practices in action at Crewe, linked on WT a while ago, but photos taken in the 1970's of the BR., two feet gauge, internal tramway serving Chesterton Junction PW Yard that reveal a driver on foot while controlling a Ruston LBT diesel and shunting a rake of loaded wagons in precisely the same manner!!

Mind you, to be fair, riding on a heavy engine with tiny driving wheels, hard riding with a suspension barely worth the title, and routinely passing over the flange gaps in standard gauge rails at repeated right angle, or worse, shallow crossings, we may have some sympathy with any driver who considered that no amount of discomfort or additional risk was anywhere near as bad as the alterative ?!

All that academic stuff aside, when the "Lanky" (in around 1902 (?)) decided to improve the water capacity of their eight little engines, in each case the blower supply and globe valve had to be moved aft to, a more sensible, main steam manifold above the backhead position, while a new pipe was then extended over the flat top of the tank on way to the base of the chimney. Large diameter balance pipes were also fitted under both the left and right sides of the saddle, leading aft to the original well tanks.

Just those features alone are downright awkward for a silly old modelmaker who would like a pretend water tank to act more like a motor vehicle bonnet !!

The old fool is also determined (against good advice I should add!) to fit a battery charge indicator, disguised as the pressure gauge, which is mounted on the dome - that itself will be firmly attached to the tank. Fearing inevitable memory loss moments that will occur, all the electrical wiring needs to be kept short and entirely contained within the "boiler" - with an absolute minimum of connectors to accidentally forget about!

A peculiarity of the prototype has provided some sort of answer to all the last mentioned issues:

The original locos' had saddle tanks - unlike the BR bodged and slightly dog eared survivor at the NRM, that were of rivetted platework. The final "closure" of the tanks could only be achieved by the provision of external flanges at one end. This might normally have been hidden from view on a locomotive with a more conventional weatherboard, cab or bunker structure abutting it, but in this case, for either Mr. Aspinall, Beyer Peacock or the Company Directors (?) it was presumably considered to be an unacceptably obtrusive eyesore. Their solution was a slightly extravagant extra bit of steel plate, held in line across the gap for the steam dome with an angle on the inside, and screwed to four lugs on the tank endplates. This plate was close, but not always a perfect fit, especially after becoming knocked about in daily service.

Curiously, when the tank on "Wren" rotted and required replacement in 1953, the Horwich fitters apparently went for the easier option of welding, and for that the technique would surely have rendered the flanging completely unnecessary - yet strangely, they chose to follow the earlier patterns, and luckily for us, retained the wasteful end plate arrangement. Very handy for me and this particular project anyway !!

Mounting this additional plate permanently on the boiler barrel, with the separate, and movable saddle tank snuggling up will provide a secure fitting for a bracket to hold the pressure gauge in an alignment that gives the impression that it is still attached to the dome. The bracket and framework will hold the contained wiring in place, along with the ends - with subtly placed joins - of copper plumbing for the gauge and blower. The narrow bottom of the tank will also be similarly fitted to the boiler, thus holding the balance pipes too.

It all seemed to be win, win... until; Uh, oh!...

With the tank end securely fitted in place, the reversing lever forward travel was compromised. It wouldn't quite latch any more !!


I had been so very careful with all the measurements, and was sure that I was within acceptable tolerances. I went back to reference pics, and closely examined images of the original locos - and there it was: The evidence was perfectly clear.

The Horwich draughtsman responsible for the modification work had cocked it up too, so many years before I came along !!

Proven, official Horwich remedy; multiplied eight times; belt the edge of the tank with a big hammer and make a dent, then the lever will fit !!

It rather looked like I would have to do something similar, but I was not so sure about that though. While genuinely prototypical, I fear it would look too much like seriously bad model making. After a bit of thought, I decided on a naughty compromise. Noting that I had already made a slight error - in that the cut-out in the boiler was not quite square anyway, pulling the glued and screwed plate back off and adding a slightly tapered gasket not only corrected that, but also moved the awkward (and previously correct) side forward by about 1mm. In the overall scheme of things, having a finished tank, perfectly square, but just 1mm short will really not be noticeable, and a carefully designed and weathered "dink", rather than a full blown whack on the tank edge might satisfy the purist in me, and look a little less like a mistake, and more of the expected wear-and-tear damage ?!!

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Damn close innit?! but I am a lot happier with that now !

Boiler cladding, a bit of filler on the quadrant bracket and several coats of thick, black paint should hide the gasket ?

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The beauty of using ply for a tapered gasket is being able to clearly "see" and check the amount of material being removed as the laminations are cut back and revealed.

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In my slightly about face way of working, I reassembled everything - just to make absolutely sure - then took it off again to fit the decorative screws and dummy "rivets" !

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Then forgot to take pictures of the completed article - now all back on again and awaiting it's first coat of that lovely, rich, "Ivory" black paint !!

Shaping and fitting the tank bottoms is the next challenge on the diminishing to-do list.

Pete.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Thank you so much Michael and Neil.

Giles, I have had a look at some pictures of your super Bagnall - and I just don't believe you !! Looks pretty good to me, and besides, you can light a real fire in your box - so it is a proper steam locomotive. I assume it does the job well enough too ?!

I was invited to a local, private, seven and a quarter inch gauge railway on Monday last. It turned out to be not so much a garden line, but an out and around the woods and meadows variety that, it seems only a select few are aware of. The engineer, and owner, had presumably been briefed about our little engine, so I was also asked to take it, along with a length of track for demonstration purposes.

"A-hah!" exclaimed the gentleman, as soon as he clapped eyes on the beastie;

"I can see some bits of my Tinkerbell there!"

Later on, he showed me his own fabulous, and aforementioned "Tink" project - being built in a very, very small workshop annexe at his home. During the conversation I said that I felt almost like a fraud - making an engine out of wood!

"No, no!" he said; "If it works, it works... and that's what really matters...!"

Happily, our little loco did the honours, and showed it could work quite well. The railway owner has even offered to lay an extra rail along the headshunt, to my (slightly odd!) 5.75 inch gauge, so that I could have a longer run for "next time" !!

With some renewed vigour, progress continues...

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As has been mentioned before, shaping long strips of sturdy plywood to the internal profile of the boiler barrel was relatively easy, with the exposed laminations providing a consistency guide, but an outer radius for the saddle tank support/runners was a bit of an issue for me.
Continuing concern that the weight of the battery at the front end was being carried only by the smokebox tubeplate, I hoped that the tank runner extending across the smokebox would provide a bit of additional support, provided it was beefy enough?

I had some reasonably straight and knot free pine with desirable dimensions... but were far too square! Abandoning any idea of even attempting to plane a perfect concave, lengthwise inner face, I elected instead to cut a plain, flat angle with the circular saw, and then file the outer, joining surface of the barrel flat, to match.

Apart from a niggling little notch having to be cut out at each end to fit over an awkwardly located bolt, and wasting two strips of timber by getting the angles wrong , I eventually managed to get both runners sitting level - and upright !!

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I admit that the number of "posidrives" driven through is perhaps a bit of overkill, but maybe that is a just reflection of my level of concern ?!

When the above shot was taken, I was still hunting for some slightly shorter screws - that would still bite sufficiently deep, but not go right through the smokebox lining, to poke their nasty, sharp points inside.

The next act was to attach the tank bottoms...

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I needed something 3mm thick - but nothing came to hand, so two strips cut from 1.5 ply sheet, stuck together and then pre drilled for later pipe fittings, did the trick instead.

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Those ugly, "modern" screw heads do look truly dreadful in the upper views. Rammed into the soft wood with what perhaps appears to be a bit too much splintering power applied. In defence, I would claim that firstly; the last turns were into some quite hard ply, secondly; that all the screws had to be skewed, in order to prevent the runner from being pulled out of alignment during the drive, and thirdly; all the heads had to be in far enough to ensure that none could foul the sliding part of the tank structure!!

Although the clumsy things will only be visible when the tank is lifted off, they will still bother me for evermore. A big bucket of filler will be called for, methinks.

Would that latter action be possibly worse than the excuses..?!!

This post is taking me too long to compose - and it is getting way past bedtime, so rather than ramble, here is a taster for later...

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I fear that I might be repeating myself with the line; "the shape of things to come..." ?!

Pete.
 
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michael mott

Western Thunderer
Well the reception on the model engineers line seemed pretty fine if you ask me. What a kind offer to lay a bit of extra track for you. Also the attitude speaks volumes about what a good chap. Nice work on the "wooden" loco by the way.

Michael
 

Tom Insole

Western Thunderer
It looks like it's really tanking along now dad!
Rather excited to see it in the flesh this afternoon. I've also got to say that I think you will have to let those screws that'll be hidden 'slide'.

Is it bad that I also looked at the last image and pictured a painting of a 1949 stock pier train rattling down Southend-on-sea Pier on a sunny day with a reflection on the glazing in the foreground, My instant thought was "well at least you're wearing clothes!"
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Thanks again Michael. Our hobby does seem to be populated on the whole with some very nice people!

It took me a few moments to work out what you meant Tom, but I got there! You might not remember, but it was another of those unfulfilled dreams, years ago, to have a go at building a 3 car, 5'' gauge Southend pier train!

I had to settle instead on a one dimensional illustration.

The little "self portrait" in the reflection was wearing a tee-shirt - and a pair of those grey shorts that didn't bend - and could stand up unsupported on the floor. There may be many who will recall the type, and observing their peers skinny legs and big knees going like bell clappers - knocking fore and aft on the hems.

Oh! how they chafed !!

Pete.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
The silly saga of the saddle, or maybe; more tribulations with timber! I'm not so sure about adding the prefix; "triumph and" to the latter though ?!

Side and front panels were cut to form the outer profile of the tank, while the identical, intermediate and rear end frames had to be pretty tough, and yet provide sufficient clearance for the battery, controller and wiring; hence the curvy shapes.

The setup seemed to be sturdy, square and slide superbly when sat on the runners.

Pride before a fall, and all that...

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The last two images above shows the limit of travel on the runners. A peculiar action of the tank sliding forward to a stop before then being lifted clear will be necessary to ensure reliable alignment of the copper plumbing and fittings between the tank and manifold, without risk of bending it all each time the battery is installed or removed. Another plus feature is the potential to fit any switches, fuses, circuit breakers, terminal blocks, etc., in the area of that aperture, thus allowing quick and easy access.

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It was so satisfying to visually see the true "character" of the little engine starting to appear!

The happy bunny at bedtime effect rapidly evaporated in the cold light, the following morning. A niggling doubt turned to utter horror when I had laboriously cut out and trimmed the flat ply upper portion of the tank, only to discover, when placing it on top, that the assembly was not actually square after all, nor indeed was it the right length either!!

Any attempt at dismantling, even at this early stage, would be too destructive. (note my deliberate avoidance of that extremely b****y annoying, all too pervasive, new word; "disassemble" - aarghhhhhh!!)

Yes. I know! I'm not only mad, but sad too !!

Just to prove it; I elected to modify the top by chiselling inclined grooves in the underside of the top...

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My reasoning, if that is the correct term, was that adjusting each individual frame in situ would be a right pain to clamp, or hold firmly in any other way while filing down, especially bearing in mind the splintering tendency of plywood.

The grooves and rebate do look rather deep in the above photo, but are actually only 1mm at the outer edge, with the shadows cast from the window more than doubling the apparent depth, as well as cruelly revealing imperfections!

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Set up on plate glass, checked and then glued, (and subsequently braced up with timber strips) the box was at least verifiably square - and wonderfully rigid !!

A little mucking about with the corner curves was still needed, but was much easier to do. Any irregularities arising from the cobble could be taken out later when smoothing down the fitted double layer of planking.

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That went fairly well!

The planking was built up using an unidentifiable hard wood. Very hard as it happens, and nicely fine grained too, but with a slight tendency to "fluff" when filed and sanded. The mildly worrying part is how it will behave in the longer term, being firmly contained between the rigid and immovable slabs of ply sheet. I pray that the strips won't shrink and split too much, or even more disastrously swell and blow outwards in humid conditions?!

Back to the immediate problems, and having dealt with the Quasimodo effect, the issue of length had to be tackled.

That old, wise saying; "measure thrice and cut once" is a bit wasted on me? It doesn't matter how many times I wield a measuring stick, I still more often than not manage to get it wrong! This time I not only forgot to take account of the 0.8 mm thickness of a vital veneer to cover the exposed end grain at the front of the tank, but again, the decision to move the "fixed" end plate forward by 1mm at the rear end !!

That took a whole, desperate days worth of chopping, carving, whittling, offering up, swearing profusely and covering the floor (and lots of other places) in wood shavings, before I eventually got the saddle to close properly - as it had previously done in it's wonky, limping state!!

One of the next challenges will be inserting zillions of rivets all over it!

I could almost envy the tedium of punching 'em out of a plain sheet with a tool ?!!

Pete.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Thanks Bill, I will be having a rummage round the local hardware shops with a little template in hand to check size and shape, and will bear your suggestion in mind. I will look at any and all options, though I admit that the solution chosen may not necessarily be the easiest - just whatever looks right in the end !!

Pete.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
I'm still not terribly sure about my choice of material for the planking! After an awful lot of priming and rubbing down, the slight differences in the grain and texture of each individual strip, despite all being cut from the same source is making it almost impossible to achieve a smooth and even curve. I dread to think what it might look like when the gloss black is eventually applied?

I am persevering, so will have to wait and see !!

Meanwhile...

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A representation of the three part fillet that covers the chimney cut out in the tank front, plus the base angle of the tank filler neck have been added.

Rather conveniently, both apertures needed to be 44mm diameter, and I had an old set of hole saws that included that particular odd size. Much less so, "had" was the operative word - as I could not find the blooming set anywhere - apart that is for the mandrel, with a badly worn, 40mm cutter still attached. One look at the prices for a replacement set nearly made me faint! There seemed little alternative to buying a brand new, single one. My automatic, wallet protection device very nearly worked when I discovered that my local shop had every size on the rack except the 44. Purchasing a dangly plastic price label on a bit of bent wire didn't seem very appealing, and would certainly have been of little use.

Despite what I can only assume is a global shortage, I did find the offending item elsewhere in the end, and after a fuss, actually paid for it!

Apart from the two low profile additions shown, all other fittings will only be applied after yet more filling and sanding has either been completed, or I have utterly capitulated and thrown in the towel ?!

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Thanks again to Bill Campbell's suggestion, a detailed search has revealed that it is possible to obtain "upholstery" nails with heads as small as 6mm. While the prototype rivets appear to scale down a bit nearer to 5.5, the marginally larger size still looks more or less in proportion when drawn up on a paper template.

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I'm quite happy with that!

Although pricking out the centres does seem a bit premature, I wanted to be sure of the overall appearance with the template cut out and held in situ, while also being able to count the number of nails to order. The temptation proved too great, and besides, the veneer on the tank front is so nice and smooth that it doesn't require any extra prepping anyway, and therefore without risk of the tiny pin holes being lost again.

The sides and top are another matter altogether, so I'm not quite finished with that wretched, suffocating facemask...?!

Pete.
 

Oz7mm

Western Thunderer
Indeed Tim. Just standard Halfords car body filler, though this job might require a fair bit. Rubs down nicely.

I used filler primer on an early 3D printed roof in Shapeways horrible white nylon like stuff as you can't rub that down. But it was awful lots of coats of filler primer and rubbing down.

John
 
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