Dikitriki
Flying Squad
Tony's customer has ordered an original Radial. At the time of ordering, the Drummond-boilered version was not in the pulic domain.
Richard
7mm Finney7 - Drummond-boiler Adams Radial
- Thread starter Steph Dale
- Start date
Tony's customer has ordered an original Radial. At the time of ordering, the Drummond-boilered version was not in the pulic domain.
Richard
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Aah, rightio. I'll make sure I draw out any other changes as I go in the hope it'll help Tony and other builders of the original kit.
Steph
Steph
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Steph
I've been reading/following the instructions as you're building this and there may be a typo on the smokebox and boiler A3 sheet. Part U53 appears twice. I think U53 at the bottom of the smokebox should be U51?
Richard, is the only difference between the original kit and the one Steph is building the boiler? Only asking as I'm tempted to build the EKR version before it acquired it's new chimney on 1935.
Is it worth adding an extra spacer in the kit(s) with etched rings of the common speaker diameters to make it easy for the kit builder to cut out if they intend building sound into the loco during construction?
I've been reading/following the instructions as you're building this and there may be a typo on the smokebox and boiler A3 sheet. Part U53 appears twice. I think U53 at the bottom of the smokebox should be U51?
Richard, is the only difference between the original kit and the one Steph is building the boiler? Only asking as I'm tempted to build the EKR version before it acquired it's new chimney on 1935.
Is it worth adding an extra spacer in the kit(s) with etched rings of the common speaker diameters to make it easy for the kit builder to cut out if they intend building sound into the loco during construction?
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Fair questions Dave, so let me help out with some answers!
Steph
I'll check, I'm doing the build alongside a set of original instructions (for intent) and the new ones (for clarity). I assure you that your observation is not the only change I've noted.
Prototypically, yes. In model form the change impacts a number of other areas (e.g. the cab front and completely new backhead) and a different set of castings are required. For your model of EKR No5 you'll need the original kit; this includes both Adams stovepipe and Drummond chimneys - I'm not sure which version you need?
I'm not sure how much personalisation is required to be designed in; this is definitely in that category. There are numerous different decoders and speaker installations we could design in and those not using sound would end up paying for parts they won't use. In terms of practicalities there's also the issue of the material thicknesses in use; the new fret is 0.45mm thick and the original spacers were on the 0.7mm thick chassis fret. In general terms this isn't a retool, it's a change to allow another variant to be built. Builders are still free to customise their builds and, indeed, we're always interested to see what people make of these kits - sound is a build option as much as motor, gearbox, pick-up methods, inside motion or even paint!
Steph
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daifly
Western Thunderer
How fortunate that you omitted the 'b' and not the 'l'!
Ian@StEnochs
Western Thunderer
Hi Steph
Using tubes as sockets to take fittings after painting is a very versatile technique. I have been using stepped ones, turned specially, to take boiler clacks and get the flange flush with the cladding. Here is an example. The spigot is filed to a taper so that the component wedges into place.
Ian.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Thanks for the comments Steph. It would be the earlier kit with the stovepipe chimney as I would model the loco before it's chimney was replaced by the EKR.
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Ian,
That's a neat trick! Thankfully it's not one required here; LSWR locos had their clacks mounted on small turrets, so are proud of the cladding. Yes, I did just check (again!)...
Steph
That's a neat trick! Thankfully it's not one required here; LSWR locos had their clacks mounted on small turrets, so are proud of the cladding. Yes, I did just check (again!)...
Steph
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
I was very late home this evening, but did get a chance to have a good look at the various cab front and rear parts. There were four items to look at:
Standard cab front
Standard cab rear
Late (small window) cab rear and
Drummond cab front (new)
Thankfully I found that they were the same size and that I'd managed to get the positions of the various rivets and vent holes correct on the new parts. So the parts I needed had their chosen rivets (note - not all those marked) pressed out and the various holes drilled through and de-burred - note this loco didn't have coal bars over the windows, so those holes are not drilled. With a little care to ensure the correct position, the cab front lamination was soldered on:
Perhaps a little more tomorrow, but so far, so good. It can't last, can it?
Steph
Standard cab front
Standard cab rear
Late (small window) cab rear and
Drummond cab front (new)
Thankfully I found that they were the same size and that I'd managed to get the positions of the various rivets and vent holes correct on the new parts. So the parts I needed had their chosen rivets (note - not all those marked) pressed out and the various holes drilled through and de-burred - note this loco didn't have coal bars over the windows, so those holes are not drilled. With a little care to ensure the correct position, the cab front lamination was soldered on:
Perhaps a little more tomorrow, but so far, so good. It can't last, can it?
Steph
Ressaldar
Western Thunderer
Hopefully until my coffers have swollen enough to afford one for myself
cheers
Mike
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
The last job to check the alignment of the boiler is to get the smokebox together. I'm about half way through the process at the moment, with front/bottom/rear frame folded and soldered. I've added slightly to the design by putting a tab of scrap etch across the top. My only advice around this assembly is to take as much time as necessary to ensure it's completely square. Fold up the front and back before the sides:
As hinted at earlier, I may use the smokebox as a ballast box, so the nut needs capping off. This is a 10mm length of 1/4" tube, blanked off with scrap etch. I'll probably do a similar trick for the smokebox lubricators, but some small-bore tubing is required (it's been ordered) so there's not much more I can do here until it arrives, so the next job will almost certainly be to form the valence and running plate:
Steph
As hinted at earlier, I may use the smokebox as a ballast box, so the nut needs capping off. This is a 10mm length of 1/4" tube, blanked off with scrap etch. I'll probably do a similar trick for the smokebox lubricators, but some small-bore tubing is required (it's been ordered) so there's not much more I can do here until it arrives, so the next job will almost certainly be to form the valence and running plate:
Steph
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
The small-bore tube arrived and I've now got a build order for the smokebox sorted; I'll explain in a mo.
For starters, it's probably worth a couple of quick shots showing how the smokebox wrapper is formed in relation to the inner. The aim with this type of smokebox construction is not to aim for a perfectly shaped wrapper. Much like the boiler you're aiming for a smooth curve, no kinks and with the reverse bends at the bottom in the right place. The former will get the radius correct and provide the strength and structure to the finished item. Perhaps a little like this:
I then soldered the wrapper in place, starting by pulling it taut to the frame and tacking at the rear top and at bottom on the two sides. A quick check to make sure the handrail knob holes are in the same place on each side (I hate wonky handrails!) and solder can then be run in. After soldering the excess solder is removed, in this case with wet and dry on a flat surface. You'll note that this loco hasn't got rivets on the front face (they'd have been pressed out already), but has on the wrapper. Incidentally, if modelling 30582 with the early BR totem you'd have to remove most of those rivets as, at that time, only the rear of the smokebox had snap head rivets:
At the rear the same trick is used, ensuring the back of the smokebox is flat. The edge of the rear overlay can then be radiused and after aligning with a 7/64" drill through the locating holes it's soldered just along the bottom edge before cleaning up:
So that's the smokebox largely done. It's not perfect, but is close enough and a lot more effort has gone into this than one of my normal test builds (where the emphasis is usually on how well it works when assembled badly/quickly!). Now; that build order thing. Well I realised I could put a length of tube across the smokebox for the lubricators to plug into, providing I did it after I had permanently tightened the screw between the smokebox and boiler. So that's what I'll do, but it needs doing after I've married various parts up on the running plate and ensured the handrails are straight...
In other news I noticed a little quirk with 30582 when preparing some illustrations for the instructions over the weekend. The injector steam pipes go in a slightly different position to the rest of the class and so I realised I needed to move them otherwise I'd be irritated and regret it later. It's a bit of a hiding to nothing as you'll see when it comes to the cab interior. Much later. Much, much later. Anyway, here's how I solved the problem, which would have been much simpler to solve before any rivets were pressed out or overlays added, but I digress. First up mark where the new holes have to be. Simple to work out where, permament marker provides good contrast:
Plug the old holes with wire, soldered from the rear, crop off and rub down:
Sorted. Right, what's next?
Steph
For starters, it's probably worth a couple of quick shots showing how the smokebox wrapper is formed in relation to the inner. The aim with this type of smokebox construction is not to aim for a perfectly shaped wrapper. Much like the boiler you're aiming for a smooth curve, no kinks and with the reverse bends at the bottom in the right place. The former will get the radius correct and provide the strength and structure to the finished item. Perhaps a little like this:
I then soldered the wrapper in place, starting by pulling it taut to the frame and tacking at the rear top and at bottom on the two sides. A quick check to make sure the handrail knob holes are in the same place on each side (I hate wonky handrails!) and solder can then be run in. After soldering the excess solder is removed, in this case with wet and dry on a flat surface. You'll note that this loco hasn't got rivets on the front face (they'd have been pressed out already), but has on the wrapper. Incidentally, if modelling 30582 with the early BR totem you'd have to remove most of those rivets as, at that time, only the rear of the smokebox had snap head rivets:
At the rear the same trick is used, ensuring the back of the smokebox is flat. The edge of the rear overlay can then be radiused and after aligning with a 7/64" drill through the locating holes it's soldered just along the bottom edge before cleaning up:
So that's the smokebox largely done. It's not perfect, but is close enough and a lot more effort has gone into this than one of my normal test builds (where the emphasis is usually on how well it works when assembled badly/quickly!). Now; that build order thing. Well I realised I could put a length of tube across the smokebox for the lubricators to plug into, providing I did it after I had permanently tightened the screw between the smokebox and boiler. So that's what I'll do, but it needs doing after I've married various parts up on the running plate and ensured the handrails are straight...
In other news I noticed a little quirk with 30582 when preparing some illustrations for the instructions over the weekend. The injector steam pipes go in a slightly different position to the rest of the class and so I realised I needed to move them otherwise I'd be irritated and regret it later. It's a bit of a hiding to nothing as you'll see when it comes to the cab interior. Much later. Much, much later. Anyway, here's how I solved the problem, which would have been much simpler to solve before any rivets were pressed out or overlays added, but I digress. First up mark where the new holes have to be. Simple to work out where, permament marker provides good contrast:
Plug the old holes with wire, soldered from the rear, crop off and rub down:
Sorted. Right, what's next?
Steph
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Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Neat clean work, and I thought I was doing so well
How did you press those triple rivets out so close together, it'd have to be a very very small rimed anvil to get into the gaps or were they punched with a drop punch?
MD
Mick, it's just the smaller of the two GW rivet presses using the smallest set of anvils. Lucky really; I couldn't find the larger ones!
And I'm really not doing any better at the soldering than you are; I'm just getting through a lot more 600 grit wet and dry...
Steph
mickoo
Western Thunderer
I've used the 4mm die and anvil and can't get anywhere near as close as that so turned up a new one with a 0.5 mm rim and that only just copes.
It's not been hardened yet and copes well enough on brass for the time being.
I think the trick is to use even less solder, like Richard
The slivers I carve off now are so small I have to use a looking glass to even see them 
Light cube works well I see
MD
It's not been hardened yet and copes well enough on brass for the time being.
I think the trick is to use even less solder, like Richard
The slivers I carve off now are so small I have to use a looking glass to even see them Light cube works well I see
MD
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Mick,
I think the smaller press is supposed to be for 2-4mm, I certainly got it to work well for the odd HO scale job where the rivets ended up very tiny and close together. Nice thin material and taking care to set up the stop for the press soon got tidy rivet runs sorted. The larger of the presses is a bit big for this sort of work, but has good use in the larger scale. In fact I suspect I'll probably end up using the larger press for the front boiler/smokebox ring when the time comes.
Just a quick check - small press has 3/16" diameter anvils, the large one 1/4" anvils.
Steph
I think the smaller press is supposed to be for 2-4mm, I certainly got it to work well for the odd HO scale job where the rivets ended up very tiny and close together. Nice thin material and taking care to set up the stop for the press soon got tidy rivet runs sorted. The larger of the presses is a bit big for this sort of work, but has good use in the larger scale. In fact I suspect I'll probably end up using the larger press for the front boiler/smokebox ring when the time comes.
Just a quick check - small press has 3/16" diameter anvils, the large one 1/4" anvils.
Steph
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Ahhhhh,
I think I have the larger press with larger anvils but one of them is for 4mm rivets, it makes small rivets alright but the rim around the hole is rather large so it cannot cope with the close spacing as the rim impacts on the previous punched rivet head.
Didn't know there was a smaller press in the catalogue.
MD
I think I have the larger press with larger anvils but one of them is for 4mm rivets, it makes small rivets alright but the rim around the hole is rather large so it cannot cope with the close spacing as the rim impacts on the previous punched rivet head.
Didn't know there was a smaller press in the catalogue.
MD
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Having done enough to check the new parts in isolation I need to be able to check them against each other and with the rest of the kit, so we're now back 'on piste', at Page 1, with Part 1; the footplate valence/jig, which looks like this when folded up:
I've also formed the running plate itself using the recommended 3/4" rod and, as Chris Wesson notes in his articles in MRJ, the position of the front curves can be judged against the front splashers. The question marks were to remind me to drill the positions for the vertical handrails, I've chosen the long tank position for my loco. The other marks are to help with positioning the forming rod:
Bringing the two parts together looks a little like this and they can be tacked together. The length is spot on as I expected:
More shortly...
Steph
I've also formed the running plate itself using the recommended 3/4" rod and, as Chris Wesson notes in his articles in MRJ, the position of the front curves can be judged against the front splashers. The question marks were to remind me to drill the positions for the vertical handrails, I've chosen the long tank position for my loco. The other marks are to help with positioning the forming rod:
Bringing the two parts together looks a little like this and they can be tacked together. The length is spot on as I expected:
More shortly...
Steph
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