Hop on a bus

[AJC]

Hi Adam, I am relieved that you are happy with the correction.

I will admit that I have not researched BR wagon colours, so should not comment! However, the description of "oxide" as the wheel colour could be misleading?

I always suspected that LT's original version of "Indian Red" had a rather more pinkish tinge to it.

I am slightly frustrated that I never got round to acquiring a genuine paint sample when I had more than enough opportunity, so am relying on a memory that has already been proven to be a bit unreliable!!

Pete.

The post-64 wagon brown is much nearer Indian Red than bauxite (which often appeared more or less bright orange when new and clean - though I'm basing this on photos it accords with dad's recollections) and faded to a slightly pinkish hue, just like the wheels you showed.

What I really had in mind was the Humbrol description of its no. 113 as 'rust'. I've never knowingly seen rust that colour.

Adam

 

[Engineer]

"What does the acronym RT stand for? And, for that matter RLH, RF, STL, T, TD etc etc?"

Hope I get this right - my reliable knowledge extends to trams and the Metropolitan and not much further:

RT is Regent Three
RF is Regal Four

A guess - RLH is Regent Low Height

As far as I know, the earlier codes don't in neatly with the description in words but there are some family patterns in the choices of codes - LT, ST, T is the best example

 

[Osgood]

RT? That's easy - nobody knows! See:

What Does RT Stand For

But according to the London Bus Mesuem at Brooklands (well worth a visit - I went to Brooklands for a day out with a couple of racing car friends and found solace with the buses), it was most likely the next code in AEC's development programme.

 

[Peter Insole]

Adam, I now remember an article in BRM (I think) about wagon colours, and that a form of Indian red was indeed used later, but was distinct from Bauxite which was a more orangey shade just as you describe. I know not exactly how either shade faded though. Both colours could, and I suspect sometimes are described as "oxide" which is a rather broad term and why I added the caution that it could "be misleading"! What I do know is that British Railways painted over the GWR style scumble in the interiors, around 1968, of it's Vale of Rheidol stock in Bauxite. They officially referred to it as "Wagon Brown", and that was definitely not even remotely akin to the paint that LT used, faded or otherwise!
Like I said, I regrettably don't have a sample of LT wheel colour to get a precise and accurate match, so now I have yet another challenge. The wheels of the little Hachette bus have not yet returned to me, but when they do this will need sorting out!

Incidentally, "Slate grey" is absolutely nothing like the stuff that's on my, or anyone else's roof come to that either!!!

All the best,

Pete.

 

[Peter Insole]

Thanks Osgood for that amusing link!

I don't think anyone mentioned that the RT chassis was designed by LT itself at Chiswick (a mixture of AEC and Leyland influence) and only bore a vague resemblance to any previous AEC product. Just look at the problems LT had when they decided to fit standard STL chassis under a batch of new bodies to create the temporary SRT class!

Of coarse, RF might have been for "Regal Four", but I don't know nuffink abaht 'em single deck fings!

Except perhaps that there were short ones, long ones, luxury ones, refurbished ones as well as crewed and single manned varieties, all without any extra type letters added.

But then again, there was that wide one given the code RFW?

I'm on my way out...

Pete.

 

[Osgood]

No worries, Peter. I'd sent you a 'conversation' which should log up as a notification at top right of your WT page. It also sends a copy to your email address, but does not allow you to reply on the back of the email, you have to reply via 'conversations'.

I'd be surprised if any of the station and yard staff at Love Lane remembered my name! Ashamed to say have not attended recently let alone contributed anything to Love Lane - even so I'm very sad that I will be at the Weald & Downland Steam weekend when the layout debuts at the sugar factory.

Anyway for the record here was the PM/conversation:

Hello Peter,
Noting your interest in models of the RT, would you be able to offer any appraisal of the diecast SUNSTAR 1/24 RT released in 2011?
I've seen some good reviews of the model, but these may not have been written by someone who knows much about the real thing!
Any comments gratefully received.
Many thanks,
Tony​

The Sunstar effort - to a layman like me - looks to be a pretty decent replica despite the slightly 'heavy' diecasting.
Just google images "sunstar 1/24 aec bus" and you'll see what it looks like.
TBH I'm still not sure exactly what is wrong with it, but am happy to accept your judgement that it is flawed - mainly with respect to proportions.

I guess what it boils down to is - if you don't know enough about the real thing to see what's wrong yourself, hardly any point worrying about it!

Back to the RT - for those not modelling London or its suburbs, then depending on period modelled there is still scope for the old RT - some were bought for further use by provincial bus operators, a few ended up around Waterbeach in the fens and Bishops Stortford I believe.

But I'm tempted to re-create the 'shunter' used by Wombwell Diesels at their bus breaking yard - the final resting place of many RTs:

RT519 Wombwell Diesels shunter August 1979

I suppose once the shunter had abraded as far as the rear wheels, they simply scrapped it and started using another!

I recall the poor old Land Rover 'shunter' at Military Vehicle Spares, Litchfield - ex army LRs were stored bumper to bumper in rows of a hundred or so (at any one time there were around 2,500 here), and if anyone wanted a specific vehicle the shunter - adorned with 3 x truck tyre fenders at each end - would push the others out of the way, 15 or 20 at a time!

Tony

 

[Peter Insole]

Sorry Tony, I feel a bit silly now! I am terrible enough at putting names to faces, but add an avatar (I think that's what it is called?) and I'm completely lost!

I'm afraid that I must stand by my criticisms and repeat the first point; that these models are beguiling! They look really impressive from any angle! You would be quite correct to ask if it really matters in the end though? After all, there are an awful lot of people who are perfectly happy with their purchases.

I just find it impossible to disguise my disappointment when there was so much potential, and each time it has proved to be a wasted opportunity for the want of a bit of care and attention by the designers.

A friend and I went to Wombwell back in '78. We speculated that the staff spending all day, every day smashing up everything in sight with such apparent gusto probably enjoyed the most relaxed and happy marriages in Yorkshire?!

Most of the buses delivered were still runners, but they required a sufficient charge of air pressure to operate the gears and brakes. The quick answer was to leave them in gear (fluid flywheel transmission), start them up, aim at an immovable object, usually other buses, drive it across the yard toward target while keeping the pedal hard down and then jump out of the cab just before impact. The shunter was only used when something got jammed and required a slightly more considered ramming.

And we were allowed to wander about, climb on and unscrew bits and bobs off any vehicle we chose while this mayhem went on all round us!

Pete.

 

[Simon]

Sublime to ridiculous department calling

A couple of years ago, when my friend Alan Dorrington was going through his "Bedford OB phase", we ran a bus tour as part of the Bath fringe festival, entitled "Colin and Reg's Great Railway Adventure".

Alan was Curmudgeonly Colin, and I was Reg, the gormless conductor. We toured railway locations south of Bath, with quite a lot of Titfieldery involved, and I gave some sort of commentary. People dressed up, the weather was great and we all had an incredibly good day out.

Curmudgeonly Colin himself. Some of you may recognise him, as Alan drives on the WSR and was also the slightly demented fishmonger in the first series of new "Poldark".



The OB coming up the hill in Freshford.



Our last port of call, Wellow for the old station and the "Fox and Badger" and lunch.



And journey's end in the Avon Street coach park in Bath.



A very grand day out indeed!

 

[Peter Insole]

A phase, A PHASE??? How can anyone have an OB phase?!

A OB is for a lifetime - not just for summer don't you know?

Oh, looking at those pictures, I can hear that grand old girl whining up the hill.

And what is it about that shape? Whichever way you look at it, every little bit seems to be exactly the right size, set at exactly the right angle and in exactly the right place!

I feel compelled to compliment Alan's well trained beard as well. When he wants to look serious it just stays still and quiet, but in the photo of the days end, he not only looks happy with himself, but his beard appears more frisky too!

Super shots Simon, thanks again!

Pete.

 

[Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen]

Peter,
As much as I agree with Mick's view on old buses, I'm starting to get addicted to this thread. You're a bad influence on me.
See you next Wednesday,
Tim

 

[Osgood]

... I am terrible enough at putting names to faces, but add an avatar (I think that's what it is called?) and I'm completely lost!….

Aha - if you had problems adding a photo avatar that would explain why you had to draw one on.

 

[mth]

Here is another convertion that could be done.......

RM1691 The Bus Bar...................


time to hide

 

[Peter Insole]

Although one of these bus stops was specially made for Love Lane, I thought I would knock out a couple of extras at the same time for friends with Hachette RTs!

I order to obtain the overall curvy, triangular section with the sticking out timetable holder in the middle I laminated the post in two halves of scraped and shaped plasticard. I was a bit concerned that the finished poles might warp after a while, but am happy to report that they have remained nice and straight so far!

When originally measured and cut out I had intended to start from ground level, adding a pin for fitting into a small hole drilled into the pavement on the layout. Crazy! Of course, the pin is smack in between the layers and yes, it has happened. The Love Lane one has copped a knock, and split open at the bottom.

As all the effort in the last few weeks has been concentrated on much bigger issues in the run up to the exhibition, bus stop re-design has been put on hold.



JB has drawn and ink jet printed some "Compulsory" bull's-eyes on white transfer film for me and applied a pair to the Love Lane flag. They are very good indeed!



We have yet to establish the best method and obtain satisfactory artwork for the timetables and frame, and I fancy experimenting with the paint surface in order to try and obtain the slightly glittering aggregate effect. As the base fitting will definitely need to be sorted, along with a request for a "Request" and at least one for a combination "Central/Coach Stop" complete with "E plates", that will require an alterative double sided pole, I suspect that I will be making a few more of these stops fairly soon!



Once the show is over and we have all settled back down to some sort of steady progress routine I will be very much looking forward to getting on with these familiar but now vanished classics.

Pete.

 

[Simon]

Those bus stops are just brilliant, so very evocative of time and place.

You'll have to forgive me, because this has nothing to do with buses or railways, but in the course of researching the Titfield Thunderbolt for a new edition of my book on the subject, I have had pointed out to me what is possibly the best reference to the film I have ever come across. I put it in this thread to keep it hidden(!) but just take a listen to this:

I won't say what it is or when it occurs, the whole thing is pure magic anyway, but if you have any interest in the film you will be genuinely surprised and delighted….

Apologies for hi-jack!

 

[Osgood]

He was a very convincing HGV driver of an 8 wheeler Scammell in The 39 Steps (1959) too!

 

[Simon]

He was a very convincing HGV driver of an 8 wheeler Scammell in The 39 Steps (1959) too!
View attachment 59873

Aha - lorry driving!

Sid also appears in "Hell Drivers" showing on this Sunday evening 7.30 pm Talking Pictures.

Here's a bit of bus-ery to make up for the Sid Jamesery



A 2002 50th anniversary Titfield tour organised by Don Kennedy.

 

[Osgood]

….Sid also appears in "Hell Drivers" showing on this Sunday evening 7.30 pm Talking Pictures...

Parrot nose Dodge soon to be made available to 7mm modellers - Radley Models - Radley Models

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Aha - lorry driving!

Sid also appears in "Hell Drivers" showing on this Sunday evening 7.30 pm Talking Pictures.

Ah yes....Stanley Baker played the lead roll.

Col.

 

[Thirtysecond]

Here's a couple of RT interiors by Peter Insole. Good aren't they?!! RTs were such"cosy" buses and the two seats from which these views are taken were my favourites as a child.

N thousand raindrops all drawn by Petes fair hand.

 

[markjj]

Good is an understatement... Pete your work is just Bl**dy amazing....