Tim Watson
Western Thunderer
Can’t wait to get my hands on Valour and do the final tweaks. Superb job, thank you Ian.
Tim
Tim
Ian Rathbone's Workshop
- Thread starter Ian Rathbone
- Start date
Ian Rathbone
Western Thunderer
My Xmas project is finally approaching completion (actually it was Xmas 2019's project as well). A Brighton E1 in BR condition from the Albion kit. The kit is very basic and with a loco class that had so many variations I had to dig around to get details (needless to say the kit instructions had little to add). I have two photos of the prototype taken in 1949 and 1951, each with a different style of balance weights! The model is of 32151 which was Eastleigh works pilot and was the only member of the class to get BR Mixed Traffic lining. It is both Westinghouse and vacuum fitted but I have no idea what is inside the cab to operate them. Anyone know?
I have still to finish the backhead, and the Westinghouse pump and pipework is ready to be fitted after I've painted behind it. The model will now join the painting queue (why does it take so long to get stuff painted?)
Keep safe,
Ian R
I have still to finish the backhead, and the Westinghouse pump and pipework is ready to be fitted after I've painted behind it. The model will now join the painting queue (why does it take so long to get stuff painted?)
Keep safe,
Ian R
AJC
Western Thunderer
And I’m fairly sure the vac’ gear will have been refitted in preservation - I don’t suppose they’d have been much need for it at Cannock Chase. I guess that what’s in the cab will be arranged much as a dual fitted Terrier would have it (with a bit more space!). With a crew aboard you’d struggle to see it.
Adam
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
It'll look some thing like this.
This is my 7mm Roxey E4 built ages ago - the Vacuum ejector is on the left and the Westinghouse governer and lubricator is on the right of the cab sides. I used Laurie Griffin parts.
I even managed to squeeze it all into a 7mm Roxey Terrier I built ages ago. With an E1 the you will have a bit more space in the cab but not as much as an E4.
Ian Rathbone
Western Thunderer
Yorkshire Dave, thank you very much for that, it will be a great help. Now to find my way around Laurie’s web site!
Ian R
Ian R
Ian Rathbone
Western Thunderer
The E1 is mostly complete now but still no cab detail as yet.
It didn't have an emblem while in lined livery. It was painted in 1949 before the emblem became available and stayed like this until c1953 when it became plan black like the remainder of the class.
I've been doing lots of bits and pieces on vintage stuff for a local dealer, so nothing to show on this thread, apart from this Leeds Stedman engine which came to me in LMS black with an incorrect number for the class. The owner wanted it in CR Blue livery with its incorrect CR number so there ensued a long email argument as to what he should and shouldn't have. The result is that the model has a correct number but incorrect livery; I'm happy with that. It's an improvement from 'impossible' to 'improbable'. The engine is a Pickersgill 300 Class, which was never blue.
I quite enjoy doing these (not the paint stripping bit) as there is no need for great accuracy but it does have to capture the spirit of a vintage model and be able to stand by genuine ones without looking wrong. Fox transfers on the tender and hand painted 'number plate' on the loco.
My other lock down task was to finish my ex LMS 2P which was on this thread a couple of years ago (post 16). I was never happy with the front end frames above the bogie. The prototype looked like this -
and the kit gave you this -
So filed off the impressed rivets, added a section to the frame and modified the top of the bogie ie., filed it flat between the wheels. The model is compensated so the front end rests on the bogie without a spring. Having done that I weathered it as a 'cared for' engine.
Keep safe
Ian R
It didn't have an emblem while in lined livery. It was painted in 1949 before the emblem became available and stayed like this until c1953 when it became plan black like the remainder of the class.
I've been doing lots of bits and pieces on vintage stuff for a local dealer, so nothing to show on this thread, apart from this Leeds Stedman engine which came to me in LMS black with an incorrect number for the class. The owner wanted it in CR Blue livery with its incorrect CR number so there ensued a long email argument as to what he should and shouldn't have. The result is that the model has a correct number but incorrect livery; I'm happy with that. It's an improvement from 'impossible' to 'improbable'. The engine is a Pickersgill 300 Class, which was never blue.
I quite enjoy doing these (not the paint stripping bit) as there is no need for great accuracy but it does have to capture the spirit of a vintage model and be able to stand by genuine ones without looking wrong. Fox transfers on the tender and hand painted 'number plate' on the loco.
My other lock down task was to finish my ex LMS 2P which was on this thread a couple of years ago (post 16). I was never happy with the front end frames above the bogie. The prototype looked like this -
and the kit gave you this -
So filed off the impressed rivets, added a section to the frame and modified the top of the bogie ie., filed it flat between the wheels. The model is compensated so the front end rests on the bogie without a spring. Having done that I weathered it as a 'cared for' engine.
Keep safe
Ian R
Ian Rathbone
Western Thunderer
The trouble is Jim that the original model didn’t have one, so this doesn’t. Anyway it’s back with a satisfied customer now. I have to turn a blind eye to all the shortcomings of vintage models and their simplified liveries. I have a Westinghouse pump in my spares box waiting for a home.
Ian R
Ian R
Ian Rathbone
Western Thunderer
A bit of recycling to start. I painted Sir Nigel in its preserved state for Tony Wright back in 2017. To was to appear on a modern day layout on an excursion, which it duly did at the Warley show. However that layout was moved back in time so Sir N. Became redundant.
And here it is on Little Bytham, where it is also out of time. (I painted the whole train of Pullmans too, many years ago)
So here it is now, stripped and repainted. It’s a South Eastern Finecast model that is showing its age compared to modern RTR but, as Tony says, it’s heavy and it pulls, a good layout loco.
Ian R
And here it is on Little Bytham, where it is also out of time. (I painted the whole train of Pullmans too, many years ago)
So here it is now, stripped and repainted. It’s a South Eastern Finecast model that is showing its age compared to modern RTR but, as Tony says, it’s heavy and it pulls, a good layout loco.
Ian R
Ian Rathbone
Western Thunderer
As a bit of light relief, not, I took on four early livery GW locos, the first three by David Nicholson in S7, a River -
a Dean Goods -
And a Bird (really?).
And finally by Neil Kinison, a Stella in P4.
I painted the guard irons after the photo but forgot to photograph the completed job.
Ian R
a Dean Goods -
And a Bird (really?).
And finally by Neil Kinison, a Stella in P4.
I painted the guard irons after the photo but forgot to photograph the completed job.
Ian R
daifly
Western Thunderer
The GWR had a major renumbering in 1912 and 3445 Ilfracombe became 3383 while the number 3445 was transferred to Bird class 3735 Flamingo.
Dave
Ian Rathbone
Western Thunderer
On with the next batch. Firstly an M7, in 7mm this time, in an early BR livery. There were at least six styles of lining the splasher before it was standardised, as on the 4mm M7 in a previous post. Unfortunately no wheels with this one which was built by Richard Hall.
I rooted out one of my early models to check its condition, and whether it still ran. It’s a Wills Finecast A3 that I built about 45 years ago. When I built it there were bits of lining that I didn’t have the skills to do, namely the front of the cab, so I finished that and then put it on the track. It has a Portescap motor and ran perfectly first time in 40 years.
In my school library there was a book called ‘2750, The Story of a Locomotive’ which I read from cover to cover, and hence the model some years later. The prototype’s world record was never beaten, such a pity that it was scrapped. The book has been re-issued recently.
Next some serious models. This pair of LNWR Large Bloomers were (or should it be ‘was’) built by Nick Baines in his usual meticulous fashion. My instruction was to paint them in the Southern Division Red livery despite there being no positive record that they carried the livery. Much research ensued, including the history of pigments and what was around at that time. There is only one photo of an engine in that livery and that was all I had to go on.
The lining is a bit weird but that’s what they did in those days. The colour is ‘English Red’ (I hadn’t heard of it either) which is mid way between Crimson Lake and Indian Red.
My next job is shaping up to be the most difficult I’ve ever tackled. It is The Stockton & Darlington No. 161 for which I have two murky photos and a rough idea of colour. Here it is -
Ian R
I rooted out one of my early models to check its condition, and whether it still ran. It’s a Wills Finecast A3 that I built about 45 years ago. When I built it there were bits of lining that I didn’t have the skills to do, namely the front of the cab, so I finished that and then put it on the track. It has a Portescap motor and ran perfectly first time in 40 years.
In my school library there was a book called ‘2750, The Story of a Locomotive’ which I read from cover to cover, and hence the model some years later. The prototype’s world record was never beaten, such a pity that it was scrapped. The book has been re-issued recently.
Next some serious models. This pair of LNWR Large Bloomers were (or should it be ‘was’) built by Nick Baines in his usual meticulous fashion. My instruction was to paint them in the Southern Division Red livery despite there being no positive record that they carried the livery. Much research ensued, including the history of pigments and what was around at that time. There is only one photo of an engine in that livery and that was all I had to go on.
The lining is a bit weird but that’s what they did in those days. The colour is ‘English Red’ (I hadn’t heard of it either) which is mid way between Crimson Lake and Indian Red.
My next job is shaping up to be the most difficult I’ve ever tackled. It is The Stockton & Darlington No. 161 for which I have two murky photos and a rough idea of colour. Here it is -
Ian R
Overseer
Western Thunderer
I think you might be missing red lines from the strange panel lining, a similar style of shadowed lining was used by the Great Western early on but with convex corners. The bright red would not be differentiated from the body red in old photos. Your black lines could also have been bright yellow as it was recorded as black on early photos.
They look lovely though.
edit: Also, some of the white panel lines could have been blue as some blues were not seen by the photographic emulsion. No wonder loco builders went to the trouble of painting a sample in photographic grey livery so people viewing a photo could see something more like they would see looking at an actual loco in the livery.
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tomburnham
Member
Ian,
This view of the other member of the class, No 160 "Brougham", may be less murky than those in your possession.
There was an article by Laurie Ward in the July 1960 Model Railway News that included the attached drawing, stated to have been prepared from the original drawings by Robert Stephenson & Co. He describes the colour as "being a rather lighter green than used by the Gateshead Works, with a darker red-brown for frames (possibly indian red). Lining was in black with a fine white line edging." However, looking at the photo of Brougham, it looks like a darker green was used in the outer panels, giving a similar appearance to the preserved long boiler 0-6-0 No. 1275 but with simpler lining.
Tom.
Edited to show uncropped version of photo.
This view of the other member of the class, No 160 "Brougham", may be less murky than those in your possession.
There was an article by Laurie Ward in the July 1960 Model Railway News that included the attached drawing, stated to have been prepared from the original drawings by Robert Stephenson & Co. He describes the colour as "being a rather lighter green than used by the Gateshead Works, with a darker red-brown for frames (possibly indian red). Lining was in black with a fine white line edging." However, looking at the photo of Brougham, it looks like a darker green was used in the outer panels, giving a similar appearance to the preserved long boiler 0-6-0 No. 1275 but with simpler lining.
Tom.
Edited to show uncropped version of photo.
Attachments
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Ian Rathbone
Western Thunderer
https://www.westernthunder.co.uk/threads/ian-rathbones-workshop.7451/goto/post?id=228930#post-228930
The only reference to red and yellow lining that I have seen are for locos in the green livery. Both Carter and HMRS quote black and white lining for the red livery.
Tom Burnham, thank you for the photo and drawing. I already have both plus another of Brougham showing the firebox lining in more detail. Your photo is slightly more clear than mine. The firebox lining on the drawing is incorrect when compared to my photo, but more logical! I am still working on possible areas of a darker green which I will discuss with the owner.
Ian R
Overseer
Western Thunderer
I am not an expert on early LNWR liveries but there is always a logic to Victorian era lining which seems to be missing on the Bloomers as painted. Looking at the photo of 381 in LNWR Liveries I think I can see more lines between the lines clearly visible in the photograph, but they register as dark in the photo so do not stand out against the background colour. The illustration in Carter doesn't match the photograph, being simplified in many areas. Carter can be difficult as he doesn't make clear which 'quotes' are contemporary descriptions and which are later interpretations of photographs. I know of lots of examples of apparently definitive statements made by previous historians which are based on assumptions made while looking at old photographs and have been proved to be wrong by analysing actual samples from the prototype.
The following are examples of lining schemes with shadow work, the basis of my previous post. The GWR 1875 - 1881 scheme as drawn at Swindon in 1954 -
This is a Victorian Railways scheme (1870s to 1892) on a two tone green livery, probably designed with knowledge of the GWR scheme. Note how some of the lines seem to disappear in the photo.
But in a closer view the fine red line can just be made out on the opposite side to the white lines.
Another example of the same livery where the light has allowed the red line to be seen but makes it difficult to differentiate the two green colours.
From everything I have seen 'vanishing' lining at corners is due to it being blocked and shaded lining, exactly mirroring the use of blocked and shaded lettering on PO wagons, following Victorian fashions for display sign writing on buildings.
