JB's 3D CAD & Printing bench

John Baker

Western Thunderer
Resurrecting this thread now I actually have a 3D printer of my own. A while ago, (see first post) I had a play with Fusion 360 to model a few bits for a Manning Wardle Old Class i. After a few pieces of helpful advice, I got them looking like they should and had them printed in different materials by Shapeways & Xometry.

Now I've got my own printer - an Elegoo Mars Pro - I've printed them myself. Just though I'd post them here for interest sake :) Apologies for the poor lighting on the photos.....a light box is next on my list of things to make.
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John Baker

Western Thunderer
For a relatively budget machine, you can get great detail out of it. The screen has a resolution of 2560×1440, which is a 2K LCD screen. This results in a layer height of about 0.047mm. I'm still playing about with exposure times, as some of the test pieces I did were a little overexposed, which resulted in slight loss of detail, but to be honest, for the prints I've been doing you'd never know.

The photos below are of the calibration print I did. The whole thing is only about 3cm wide. On the back, the smallest rectangular slot at the top is 0.4mm wide. There’s meant to be 0.2 and 0.1mm slots too, but these didn’t print due to overexposure. I’m going to take the exposure down by a second to see the difference.
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mickoo

Western Thunderer
Just for info, the 2K screen (it is a very common screen used in many budget printers) is 0.047 microns in X and Y, not height (Z) that is determined by the layer height you set in your slicer.

Most budget printers will go down to 0.01mm which is 0.010 micron layers.

It is important to remember that X and Y are fixed, only height is adjustable.

Welcome to the world of test prints and exposure searching, muhahahar :D
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Yeah, I'm already slightly obsessed :rolleyes:
:cool: To be fair, you have to find what's best for your set up, you can read all the forums you like, they'll give you a base figure.....which you seem to have a grip on already....then it's a case of fine tuning your machine, to that particular resin and ambient temperature and that can take a lot of effort.

Good luck, once you get it dialed in you'll enjoy it immensely :thumbs:
 

adrian

Flying Squad
For a relatively budget machine, you can get great detail out of it. The screen has a resolution of 2560×1440, which is a 2K LCD screen. This results in a layer height of about 0.047mm. I'm still playing about with exposure times, as some of the test pieces I did were a little overexposed, which resulted in slight loss of detail, but to be honest, for the prints I've been doing you'd never know.
Thanks for posting the prints look impressive.

I have a query about the resin or print material you are using. I appreciate you are still finding you way around the options available so if not yourself perhaps one of the other 3D printers may be able to contribute.

It's related to the print material available for your machine. I've drawn out some replacement axle boxes which include lugs for continuous springy beam suspension ( Continuous springy beams ) and I used shapeways because they could print in "hardwearing" nylon which I considered more suitable as a sliding component in a brass horn guide. So can the Elegoo print in a "nylon" material? Whilst on the subject of materials can it print at the other end of the spectrum and print in a wax material suitable for sending out for lost-wax brass casting?
 

John Baker

Western Thunderer
Thanks for posting the prints look impressive.

I have a query about the resin or print material you are using. I appreciate you are still finding you way around the options available so if not yourself perhaps one of the other 3D printers may be able to contribute.

It's related to the print material available for your machine. I've drawn out some replacement axle boxes which include lugs for continuous springy beam suspension ( Continuous springy beams ) and I used shapeways because they could print in "hardwearing" nylon which I considered more suitable as a sliding component in a brass horn guide. So can the Elegoo print in a "nylon" material? Whilst on the subject of materials can it print at the other end of the spectrum and print in a wax material suitable for sending out for lost-wax brass casting?

Hi Adrian,
To be honest I've not read about any that contain nylon (not to say they don't exist), but I know there are 'tough' resins available. I haven't had chance to play with these yet, but I did read about them here a little while ago - it might point you in the right direction, although I haven't investigated there availability recently.
There are definitely resins available for lost wax casting purposes, which once I've saved up some pennies (!) I will have a play with, as this is a road I want to head down eventually. Powercast and Blucast both do castable resins (as do an increasing number of companies), both of which can be used on the Mars Pro. There's a great chap on YouTube, VOG, who does some excellent videos about these resins. He then casts his own items from them, alas not railway items unfortunately! He's got a whole playlist reviewing and trialling them. If you are lucky enough to own/have access to a Formlabs printer, they do a wax resin specifically for lost wax casting, but their machines are very expensive, and the resin comes in a cartridge that only fits the Formlabs printers. Not sure if you could break the resin out and use it in other machines or not..... you might just have sewn the seed for another experiment there :D
John
 

Brian McKenzie

Western Thunderer
It's worth having a chat first with any prospective lost wax investment casting service for their recommendations regarding castable resins and to learn of any issues experienced.

Early problems with these new materials were often because of a reluctance to burn out the resin to the manufacturer's recipe of staged times and at higher temperatures, compared to the less demanding use of wax. Some brands of 'castable resin' were more prone to leaving ash contamination behind, others could bubble and fizz if not processed correctly, disturbing the finish.

"Get your resins done when the caster is doing some platinum work", I was once advised. (This requires higher temperatures.)

A more up-to-date perspective would be much appreciated from someone who has had produced some of the very fine castings displayed recently.
 

Clarence3815

Western Thunderer
Hello Mickoo

I`m a little confused. I`ve had some printing done commercially at 18 microns resolution. Is 0.01 mm better than that? I`m annoyed if so!

Bernard
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Hello Mickoo

I`m a little confused. I`ve had some printing done commercially at 18 microns resolution. Is 0.01 mm better than that? I`m annoyed if so!

Bernard
Unless my math is wrong then yes 0.01 is better at 10 microns, however, as I mentioned above, that is only in one axis, the Z axis or height.

Z axis is controlled by the stepped motor and can be changed in the slicer, X and Y are controlled by the physical pixel size of the screen, most budget printers only achieve 47 microns as their best resolution in X and Y axis.

It's a bit of a marketing hype when they describe products with a 10m micron resolution, they fail to mention (it's in the small print) that the other two are 47 microns.

If your part was 18 microns on all axis then you won (over a budget printer) on X and Y and lost on Z. If your item was 47 in X and Y and 18 in Z then you matched budget printers in X and Y but lost in Z.

It has to be said though, the difference between 10 and 20 on budget printers is negligible, especially as it's only one axis at that resolution.

An incorrect exposure or ambient temperature change can easily negate any gains you might see going to 10 microns from 18 microns.

Many people assume that 3D printers are like CNC machines, insert object 10 mm cubed, out comes object 10 mm cubed, not so dear Sherlock, not so at all. I watched a YouTube video the other day that best described how a 3D printer actually works......in a language with pretty pictures that I understood.

Imagine a drop of ink onto a glass surface, it will form a spherical puddle, lets say 1 mm in diameter, resin printing isn't quite like that, that would be the ideal CNC result. Instead, imagine the glass surface is now blotting paper, that drop now begins to seep and spread, and not uniformly either, that's 3D printing.

The longer the exposure the more the spread, the type of resin (colour and opacity have a factor as well) also controls the spread as does ambient temperature. Now factor in adjacent puddles, all minutely variable with their partner and you can see how imprecise it can become, especially if you're trying to print a 0.4 mm AF nut detail.

All of the above matters not to the vast majority of budget printer owners, they're printing minis, dungeons, dwarves and mythical beasts, who cares if it's slightly out or twisted, you'd never notice, but when you get to engineering shapes with sharp corners and uber flat surfaces, then your workload goes up exponentially, as does your wastage trying to find the sweet spot in orientation and settings.

None of this is top secret, it's all on the web on thousands of forums and bloggs, you just have to sift through it all and pick what works best for you.
 

John Baker

Western Thunderer
No more printing just yet.....I'm awaiting delivery of a new FEP, after I got a bit over-enthusiastic whilst trying to remove a failed print.

I have been doing the 3D modelling of a few other parts for the MW Old Class i, ready to go when the FEPs arrive.

Buffer Body & Head: These will be a self contained sprung buffer, so the hole in the top surface is for a retaining wire to prevent the buffer head from falling out.
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Coupling chain bracket: The prototype I'm working from uses an eye bracket instead of a hook, bolted on to the buffer beam.
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Blowdown Valve: I don't have any information about what the valve on the prototype would have looked like, but looking online, they all look to be quite similar, so this is my best guess. This will be pretty small (no more than 3mm from back to front), so I'm hoping it will print OK.
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Smokebox Door: Not finished yet.....still battling with the hinges. For someone well-versed in Fusion360, this is probably quite straight forwards, but for me it's taken an awful lot of trawling through videos and forums to get to this point! Creating the domed shape, and then to get the hinges to follow the contours of the domed shape, ended up being quite straight forwards however there just didn't seem to be any info out there about how to do it! Got there in the end.
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ianlbsc

Western Thunderer
Smokebox Door: Not finished yet.....still battling with the hinges. For someone well-versed in Fusion360, this is probably quite straight forwards, but for me it's taken an awful lot of trawling through videos and forums to get to this point! Creating the domed shape, and then to get the hinges to follow the contours of the domed shape, ended up being quite straight forwards however there just didn't seem to be any info out there about how to do it! Got there in the end.
This projection onto a curved surface is covered in the Warwick tutorials I mentioned last March. Looking very good! Seasons felicitations and top of the mornin to ya!
 

John Baker

Western Thunderer
This projection onto a curved surface is covered in the Warwick tutorials I mentioned last March. Looking very good! Seasons felicitations and top of the mornin to ya!

Yes, I got somewhat waylaid in March when we moved house (again!). Just tried printing the smokebox door this afternoon, but for some reason it didn't stick to the build plate, and is patiently waiting for me to try and prize it off the FEP. 'appy Crimbles to you too!
 

Mike Trice

Western Thunderer
It is essential that the printing environment is warm enough or at a minimum the resin and build plate. When it is cold I leave the resin vast, the resin bottle and build plate on a radiator to warm up and just to make sure and just before printing use a heat gun to keep them topped up. I also find it helps to increase the bottom exposure times in cold weather.
 

John Baker

Western Thunderer
It is essential that the printing environment is warm enough or at a minimum the resin and build plate. When it is cold I leave the resin vast, the resin bottle and build plate on a radiator to warm up and just to make sure and just before printing use a heat gun to keep them topped up. I also find it helps to increase the bottom exposure times in cold weather.

I have built myself a heater that is fixed inside the cover of the printer, heating the printing chamber. It keeps the chamber between 25&28oC - I'd put the heater on about 20 minutes or so before printing and the resin was kept in the house, rather than the garage where I keep the printer. It was bloody cold in there though when I tried printing the door.....only about 2 oC, but it was toasty warm in the printer. I'll experiment over the next few days, but I seem to have more problems when using a raft with the 'skate' shape, rather than the plain raft. Just altering my saved Chitubox projects now to see if it makes a difference.
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