Martin Finney

[7mmMick]

Western Thunder Consortium.....

The idea could have legs, it could be quite fortuitous that several ranges are for sale at once ?

Mick

 

[Railwaymaniac]

It was not facetious, but a throw it out and see what happens comment. It depends on who would get involved, and Finney's price.

I'd like to be involved in this, please ...

My thought is that the Finney range is well worth preserving, but I doubt that I could afford to buy it myself. And beyond this I have *zero* experience of designing new kits to add to the range.

However, (and I'd need to speak nicely to both the accountant and the Domestic Authorities first), the thought of being part of such a consortium sounds much more of a 'go-er' than anything else I've heard.

Oh, and did anyone else look at the numbers they were touting on the website? - roughly ten thousand kits in thirty years is about 300 kits per year ...
Would anyone like to guess at the average sale price of those kits?

Ian

 

[Steph Dale]

Would anyone like to guess at the average sale price of those kits?

Ian

Around £300 quid a shot would still give a return on investment at about 3/5ths of naff-all by the time the tooling is transferred and materials/production paid for. I suspect the 0-gauge component of the number you quote is very small though.
This isn't a business in which to make money!

Steph

 

[mickoo]

This isn't a business in which to make money!

Steph

Agreed, I don't think anyone should get involved if they are thinking of making a large profit to retire on, at best it'd cover costs and maybe enough to expand or improve the current stock or enough for an Xmas meal at the end of the year

I wonder if either range has the art work on CAD, it'd be nice to look over them and possibly offer alternatives for S7, S7 is growing and I wonder if the lack of suitable out of the box kit options is holding that side of O gauge back?.

Failing that, it might pay to just redo the art work from the original etches in CAD to preserve that for the future, etch art work isn't hard and once done will last forever, unlike castings which require new moulds over time.

It certainly warrents a little more effort and investigation I think, I'm also going to presume both sources are probably going to opt to try and shift it all in one lump, rather than odd ones here and there as I am (mildly musing) tempted to pick one or two from Gladiator to rework and continue with.

 

[SteveO]

30 years ago kits were much more popular, so I'd guess the majority of those sales are in the archives. I'd guess about 20-30 kits per year would be a good guess, and most of those at shows - which means plenty of weekend working.

Not only would this not be a cash cow, but it would take a lot of time to even make any money at all. Just a heads up for those rubbing their hands together and drooling at the prospects...

 

[OzzyO]

Hello all,

I've just had a look at the members list, 41 pages with 20 members per page = 820 members. If each and ever one put in £5 that gives £4,100.

But when you look at some of the pages over half of the member have not posted a message, So that now brings the pot down to £2,050 I don't think that Martin will reply to that amount.

For it to be viable I think that each member would have to put in around £20. That is assuming that 410 member wanted to put in £20 (= £8,200).

OzzyO.

 

[richard carr]

All of Martin's Art work is done in DesignCad, its partly why there are often components in the kit that really should be castings but are laminated etches because Martin is very good at drawing in CAD. Slide bars were the most annoying thing on the V2.

Richard

 

[OzzyO]

If the modellers Co-op / Finney venture did look to be possible, would it be for the whole range, 4mm only or 7mm only. If it was only one side of the business be it the 4 or 7mm that could affect the number of people that would come forward.

OzzyO.

 

[Steph Dale]

Mick,
The kits already include S7 provisions and have done for around 25 years in some cases!
Steph

 

[mickoo]

Mick,
The kits already include S7 provisions and have done for around 25 years in some cases!
Steph

I didn't think Gladiator did S7 spacers or alternative motion brackets etc for S7, I accept Finney does but my comment, probably incorrectly, was aimed at both ranges.

 

[mickoo]

All of Martin's Art work is done in DesignCad, its partly why there are often components in the kit that really should be castings but are laminated etches because Martin is very good at drawing in CAD. Slide bars were the most annoying thing on the V2.

Richard

That seems to be a trend with many etched kits though, I suppose back in the day when these kits first came out, laminated etchings may well have been better than available castings, casting masters (3D printing these days has made masters very detailed) or casting methods?

 

[mickoo]

For it to be viable I think that each member would have to put in around £20. That is assuming that 410 member wanted to put in £20 (= £8,200).

OzzyO.

At a wild stab, I'd guess at 20-30K for the 7mm range, maybe even higher, this is Mr Finneys retirement fund were talking about here, unlikely to go for car boot prices Regarding members interested and in a position to consider opting in to the Finney range I'd guess at 20-25 serious enough to cross the dotted line, more would be better but you may find it be less.

 

[SteveO]

I have a feeling that more would not necessarily mean merrier here. What would be more beneficial would be a core of 4 or 5 active decision-making members and as many 'sponsors' as necessary. Sponsors could get discounts, perhaps, instead of being involved in the running of the business.

First, anyone interested needs to get hold of the books and see what the asking price is. I would say that a dedicated team of modelling enthusiasts would be looked on more favourably towards a discount than a competitor purchase.

 

[Pugsley]

I could be interested, depending on the exact arrangements and amounts required. I'm pretty good with 3D cad, so can offer some expertise.

 

[Rob Pulham]

Sadly the timing is wrong for me - having spent up all the spare funds on the new house.

 

[mickoo]

I would say that a dedicated team of modelling enthusiasts would be looked on more favourably towards a discount than a competitor purchase.

Why, if your retiring why would you care where the masters went? Other than perhaps previous sword crossing in the past.

 

[Dikitriki]

When I tossed the idea in originally, I was envisaging a small group, maybe 4-6 people, each putting in an equal share of the required capital.

I think working with more than that number would be difficult, and the smaller the group the better for direction and decision making purposes. Speaking personally, I'm not going to waste my time on anything other than 7mm (or maybe 1/32), as it would be a time-consuming and poorly rewarded venture undertaken for the satisfaction of doing something worthwhile.

Richard

 

[Steph Dale]

Richard,
I'm with you on that, there are some optimistic and or unrealistic expectations at work here already. Whether I'm involved or not, setting up a partnership with more than a handfull of people is a ruddy nightmare (been there; done that, got to do it again).
Steph

 

[SteveO]

Why, if your retiring why would you care where the masters went? Other than perhaps previous sword crossing in the past.

That depends if the brand is kept or not. His name will still be Martin Finney, and if the company is still called the same, personally I would want to know it's being kept to the same standards as I kept it. In some small way, it would be nice for my name and 30 years of hard work would live on. I would be prepared to give a little leeway regarding price, if it were me.

If the brand is not kept, or the company is asset stripped of goodwill, then I would want the highest price possible to forget it.

 

[Steph Dale]

Steve,
You've got it. For a relatively recent example look at Alan Gibson...
Steph