7mm Mid-Century mineral
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michael mott
Western Thunderer
Tidy looking body.
Michael
Michael
Good morning Fraser,
I've just discovered this thread and read it between trains while at work, so I'm afraid you'll have a whole rash of "Liked" notifications.
All fascinating stuff, and the plastic wagon modifications/distressing is very much the sort of thing I've been dipping my toes in for years with my few EM wagons.
Somewhere I have one or two pre-printed Slaters POs and I vaguely remember starting to distress one of them, most of my more involved modelling things are in store pending a house move at the moment though.
All the best,
Simon.
I've just discovered this thread and read it between trains while at work, so I'm afraid you'll have a whole rash of "Liked" notifications.
All fascinating stuff, and the plastic wagon modifications/distressing is very much the sort of thing I've been dipping my toes in for years with my few EM wagons.
Somewhere I have one or two pre-printed Slaters POs and I vaguely remember starting to distress one of them, most of my more involved modelling things are in store pending a house move at the moment though.
All the best,
Simon.
Overseer
Western Thunderer
Thanks for all the likes and compliments. And, @Simon H, there is some more distressing of models planned - I acquired a rtr Dapol/Lionheart PO wagon on sale that needs the treatment to match its 1950s end of life condition. I have not previously purchased any of the rtr wooden bodied wagons, now to work out how much needs to be replaced to match the rest of the fleet.
I milled the corner protection angles from a piece of scrap 3mm brass and have fixed them in place, as well as the riveted corner angles. The protection angles could be folded but I think the milled version will be stronger.
If anyone is thinking of scratch building a steel boded wagon I did a step by step guide quite a few years ago here - Steel 13T Private Owner Wagon
Sheet metal makes sense for models of sheet metal wagons and they are not particularly difficult to make. Good practice for making more important things like locomotives as well.
I milled the corner protection angles from a piece of scrap 3mm brass and have fixed them in place, as well as the riveted corner angles. The protection angles could be folded but I think the milled version will be stronger.
If anyone is thinking of scratch building a steel boded wagon I did a step by step guide quite a few years ago here - Steel 13T Private Owner Wagon
Sheet metal makes sense for models of sheet metal wagons and they are not particularly difficult to make. Good practice for making more important things like locomotives as well.
Overseer
Western Thunderer
A little more progress amongst holiday activities. Focused on the top cappings, the ends retained the original angles while the sides had an extra angle welded (or riveted?) to the outside of the top. To simplify installation of the side caps I used a 1.5mm end mill to mill a slot then a 2mm end mill to form channel sections, instead of two angles.
Brian McKenzie
Western Thunderer
This wagon plan caught my eye
https://archive.org/details/carbuildersdict00mast/page/n731/mode/1up?view=theater
but it must predate your prototype by 30 years or so (might need to scroll down to next page).
https://archive.org/details/carbuildersdict00mast/page/n731/mode/1up?view=theater
but it must predate your prototype by 30 years or so (might need to scroll down to next page).
Overseer
Western Thunderer
It certainly has similarities. Iron and steel rolling stock has a long history with patchy acceptance in Britain. Daniel Gooch designed quite a few all iron open wagons and vans during the 1850s which had long service lives, some over 100 years, so the technology was available. The higher initial cost and the common user scheme for the most numerous wagon types slowed the adoption of steel wagons in Britain.
AJC
Western Thunderer
I don’t necessarily recognise it as a type that was built though (but my ignorance of wagons of that period is quite deep and there were a lot of Company iron wagons to those broad dimensions). Useful railtank drawings though!
Adam
Overseer
Western Thunderer
It doesn't look like much has been done. Actually it is not much but the various brackets and rivet plates have been added to the solebars. Only the door catches and hinges to make and fit on the body. The running gear and brakes will then be quick thanks to etched brass and nickel silver bits.
Overseer
Western Thunderer
Not a lot of spare time but getting there.
Door drop springs still to solder on. Then the springs and axleboxes. The lifting link brake gear is from the Rumney Models 21 ton underframe detailing set. The W irons are Ambis, set up to have one rocking axle using the bits provided to spring them. Buffers are Slaters heavy duty LMS buffers.
Door drop springs still to solder on. Then the springs and axleboxes. The lifting link brake gear is from the Rumney Models 21 ton underframe detailing set. The W irons are Ambis, set up to have one rocking axle using the bits provided to spring them. Buffers are Slaters heavy duty LMS buffers.
Overseer
Western Thunderer
I haven't said anything about the door catches. I decided to make them slightly differently for this wagon as twice as many were needed.
The drop catches were made by milling a 2mm slot in the edge of some 3mm brass, then milling off the strip. The raised edges were then filed to 45 degrees. Individual catches were then cut off with a jewellers saw. The photo is of the leftover bits.
Previously I have bent up retaining strips using fine nosed pliers. That is a bit fiddly so I milled up a little press tool from some scraps of 3mm thick brass strip. A 1.5mm wide 0.25mm deep slot was milled across to hold a 1.5mm strip in place, followed by a deeper slot a bit over 2mm wide was milled across. The second piece had one face milled off apart from a small rectangle. 1/8 inch holes were drilled in both to keep the two parts in register, short length of brass tube were loctited in one part and the other pair of holes opened up a bit. To use a strip of brass is placed in the slot and the plates pressed together using a small hand press.
All pretty rough but it works. The tool took about 15 minutes to make and massively speeds up production of the catch retaining clips.
The drop catches were made by milling a 2mm slot in the edge of some 3mm brass, then milling off the strip. The raised edges were then filed to 45 degrees. Individual catches were then cut off with a jewellers saw. The photo is of the leftover bits.
Previously I have bent up retaining strips using fine nosed pliers. That is a bit fiddly so I milled up a little press tool from some scraps of 3mm thick brass strip. A 1.5mm wide 0.25mm deep slot was milled across to hold a 1.5mm strip in place, followed by a deeper slot a bit over 2mm wide was milled across. The second piece had one face milled off apart from a small rectangle. 1/8 inch holes were drilled in both to keep the two parts in register, short length of brass tube were loctited in one part and the other pair of holes opened up a bit. To use a strip of brass is placed in the slot and the plates pressed together using a small hand press.
All pretty rough but it works. The tool took about 15 minutes to make and massively speeds up production of the catch retaining clips.
Overseer
Western Thunderer
Instead of being sensible and finishing off the last few bits of the diagram 1973 steel wagon I felt the urge to test out an idea I had for converting a Dapol RCH 7 plank wagon to Scale7. I had resisted buying any of the Dapol RCH wagons as I didn't think they were as good a starting point as the Slaters kits to achieve the battered 1950s wagons I am aiming at. I had been looking at the New Cransley coke wagon for some time to finish looking like Paul Bartlett's photograph of one of them and couldn't resist when Hattons had them on sale towards the end of last year. For the price it was worth it to compare with the Slaters wagons. I will see if I can live with the emaciated buffer housings. I couldn't live with the wheels as I don't have any 32mm gauge track. Previously, when converting Dapol Lionheart wagons (a steel mineral and tank wagon) I have altered the wheels to S7 by pushing the tyre to the outside of the centres then narrowing the width of the tyres. This time I also needed 3 hole disk wheels instead of the open spoke wheels supplied so decided to fit Slaters wheels. I know the S7 Group has short axles to allow a direct swap over but I am not a fan of 'pin point' bearings in O scale.
After looking at the wagon for a month or two and measuring bits it seemed possible to fit the standard Slaters wheels and bearings without much difficulty. And so it proved. Not sure if others have done the same, I would assume so. First take the axles out then pull the bearings out using flush-cutting side cutters. The bearings are 3.1mm diameter so the Slaters bearings need a sleeve to increase their external diameter. I drilled out some 1/8 inch brass rod with a 2.55mm drill, cut off lengths and hammered (gently) onto the Slaters bearings. 1/8 inch is a bit larger than 3.1mm so I held the bearings on the end of a drill bit inside the bearing and filed them a bit smaller. Push bearings into the holes in the compensated side. The fixed side needs a small alteration to ease installation of the axle, just a slot through the raised ring around the hole. Install the axle into the bearings in the compensated side, put the other bearing on the axle and ease the axle into the hole in the fixed side. There is just enough give in the ABS. No need to alter the brakes.
Now the wagon is ready for some accelerated ageing.
After looking at the wagon for a month or two and measuring bits it seemed possible to fit the standard Slaters wheels and bearings without much difficulty. And so it proved. Not sure if others have done the same, I would assume so. First take the axles out then pull the bearings out using flush-cutting side cutters. The bearings are 3.1mm diameter so the Slaters bearings need a sleeve to increase their external diameter. I drilled out some 1/8 inch brass rod with a 2.55mm drill, cut off lengths and hammered (gently) onto the Slaters bearings. 1/8 inch is a bit larger than 3.1mm so I held the bearings on the end of a drill bit inside the bearing and filed them a bit smaller. Push bearings into the holes in the compensated side. The fixed side needs a small alteration to ease installation of the axle, just a slot through the raised ring around the hole. Install the axle into the bearings in the compensated side, put the other bearing on the axle and ease the axle into the hole in the fixed side. There is just enough give in the ABS. No need to alter the brakes.
Now the wagon is ready for some accelerated ageing.
Prompted by your most recent post, I have been back through your thread looking at previous contributions.
You have created some really convincing weathered wagons. Super nice.
One query though. In your post #6 you show a wagon with two-shoe Morton brakes but with painted chevrons indicating bottom discharge doors. I thought this was an impossible combination, because the cross-shaft connecting the brake levers would prevent the bottom doors opening. The wagon in your most recent post illustrates the point.
It is noteworthy that the early 16-ton minerals with bottom discharge doors had independent either side brakes, the later mass-produced type without bottom doors had Morton brakes. The switch in brake type following the change to no bottom doors is surely not a coincidence?
If it was possible, as per the wagon in your post #6, how was it done?
Overseer
Western Thunderer
Not impossible, just uncommon. The bottom doors are not very wide so when open they clear the brake cross shaft. The reason double sided independent brakes were usually used with bottom doors was probably to avoid a maintenance problem, dropping tons of coal on the cross shaft would eventually cause damage.
Thank you for explaining that.
Overseer
Western Thunderer
I just had a look in David Larkin's The Acquired Wagons of British Railways Volume 3, which I acquired recently from Titfield Thunderbolt, and there is a photograph on page 44 of the same type of wagon. Seven plank steel underframe wagon with bottom doors and Morton brakes.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
'Pin point' bearings have their place when it comes to long wagon or coach rakes however they are less than useful for shunting layouts. In both O and HO scale I'm invariably finding ways to arrest the often too free movement to prevent vehicles rolling at the first touch.
Overseer
Western Thunderer
A start has been made on the Dapol wagon. Hopefully it will end up looking something like Paul Bartlett's photograph, also published in Larkin Acquired Wagons Vol 3 page 131.
It started like this -
After a couple of washes of dilute white with some Humbrol number 73 to tone the red down, some fibreglass brush attention to the lettering, replaced planks painted with a base colour and some brown rust base on the steelwork it looks like this -
It looks a bit scary in this state. A dark wash will be next then black patches. The coke raves have been unclipped to be modified to match the photo more closely and repainting.
It started like this -
After a couple of washes of dilute white with some Humbrol number 73 to tone the red down, some fibreglass brush attention to the lettering, replaced planks painted with a base colour and some brown rust base on the steelwork it looks like this -
It looks a bit scary in this state. A dark wash will be next then black patches. The coke raves have been unclipped to be modified to match the photo more closely and repainting.