MMP BR 16 Ton Mineral Wagon

richard carr

Western Thunderer
Ken

By all means let know when you ar in the area, we are just finishing a small extention to the front section and should be back up and running in a couple of weeks.

Richard
 

farnetti

Western Thunderer
As I pinched the 2mm washers for something else I have been waiting for a packet of Alan Gibsons which arrived recently and so have continued with the chassis.

The axles and wheels now in place and springs fully fitted. Brake handle brackets in place, the chains from the kit look overscale which I think they are, but this is also because of the I took the photo. I prefer them in an exposed place to twisted wire or none at all.

The brake shoes, hangers, cross shaft and push rods have all been fitted but need cleaning up. Next will be the brake handles and associated gubbins at the end of the cross shaft.
DSCN1034.JPG

I am still wondering how (or whether) to fit some of the smaller detail to the body. The next photo shows the chains fitted to the upper side door, and on the panel to the left is the locking pin - I hope you can see it. DSCN1002.JPG

Ken
 

farnetti

Western Thunderer
Got most of the brake gear stuff done today as well as fitting the body to the underframe.

DSCN1038.JPG

Above is the non braked side, the side door bangers only fixed at the top as per the prototype. Notice the cotter pin through the end of the cross shaft. I am not sure why there seems to be a kink in the brake lever near the V hanger, will have to check it out tomorrow.

DSCN1039.JPG

Much the same on the braked side, these enlarged photos don't half show up the dust.

By the way, I normally end up doing the warm soapy water wash after soldering until I fit the wheels. After that I am concerned about steel going bad. What do others do, wifes hairdryer? I am not too worried as with the RSU and solder cream flux isn't needed so not a lot of corrosion.

Ken
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
My first job on most builds is to chemically blacken the wheels and axles. That prevents a lot of the incidental rust from fluxes and so on.
 

Rob Pulham

Western Thunderer
My first job on most builds is to chemically blacken the wheels and axles. That prevents a lot of the incidental rust from fluxes and so on.


Me too, that and I have an old hairdryer that I use in conjunction with rags for drying off after washing. Incidentally I also use it to warm brass kit's prior to painting them which I do in the spray booth with everything ready to go once the model is warm.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
No. Birchwood Casey is the stuff I use. I tend to blacken everything, and then run a brass cleaning wheel brush in my whizzydisc to buff the tread after painting.
 

90164

Member
If you spin the wheels using the mop-like tool in a mini-drill, the wheels will dry off nicely, but chemical blackening certainly is a must.
 

Brian Daniels

Western Thunderer
Very nice Ken but just one thing, the brakes will be coming off if you put the lever down! As you can see the rod to the right hand brake block comes off the bottom of the central cross shaft and the right hand rod off the top of it. It surprises me how many models are built like this.

This picture is of an MCO.

Open MCO B177027 Didcot.jpgOpen MCO B229637.jpg
 

farnetti

Western Thunderer
No. Birchwood Casey is the stuff I use. I tend to blacken everything, and then run a brass cleaning wheel brush in my whizzydisc to buff the tread after painting.


Thanks Heather

Isn't that the reflection of the door banger? ;)


Yup, that what it was.

Very nice Ken but just one thing, the brakes will be coming off if you put the lever down! As you can see the rod to the right hand brake block comes off the bottom of the central cross shaft and the right hand rod off the top of it. It surprises me how many models are built like this.

This picture is of an MCO.

View attachment 35564View attachment 35565

Brian, many thanks for this info. Having studied your photos I see what you mean. This is the first wagon I have built with this type of brake gear and followed the instructions without understanding how it actually works in practice. Your photos make it clear.

I'll have to see whether I can take the push rods apart and correct it. Fortunately I didn't solder the brake linkage arms to the cross shaft and they are free to rotate (thank goodness).

Alternatively I could just make sure that it is always viewed from the non brake side and hope no-one notices - but that doesn't seem to be the WT way.

Ken
 

djparkins

Western Thunderer
Brian, many thanks for this info. Having studied your photos I see what you mean. This is the first wagon I have built with this type of brake gear and followed the instructions without understanding how it actually works in practice. Your photos make it clear.

I'll have to see whether I can take the push rods apart and correct it. Fortunately I didn't solder the brake linkage arms to the cross shaft and they are free to rotate (thank goodness).

Alternatively I could just make sure that it is always viewed from the non brake side and hope no-one notices - but that doesn't seem to be the WT way.

Ken

Ken -

Be careful on this one - this is not always the case as on four shoe minerals the linkages are in line across the wagon and I've the photos to prove it. In any case the linkage can be assembled either way around so it is easy to change if you want to.

Regards,

DJP/MMP
 

dibateg

Western Thunderer
Yes - you have to put it right Ken - we all know now! And if I have to put right all my muck ups, so do you!
Great job though - it would be nice to have a rake of 20 of these...
Tony
 

Brian Daniels

Western Thunderer
I will have my Conflat L at Telford on my demo so if you want a one to one on these brakes do give me a shout. As I said earlier there are quite a few people that get this wrong so don't worry Ken you are not alone.
 

NickRees

Member
Ken the wagon is looking great.:thumbs: I'm building some Parkside ones at the moment but I was tempted to dip in the funds and get some from David. This thread almost seals the deal. I for one have done the brake gear the wrong way in the past and Brain got me wondering if I was still doing it wrong :eek:

Thank Heather and Rob. Does the chemical blackening prevent electrical contact?

Hi Ken, I don't think so. I've read people doing it to driving wheels so logical conclusion on my part.

No. Birchwood Casey is the stuff I use. I tend to blacken everything, and then run a brass cleaning wheel brush in my whizzydisc to buff the tread after painting.

Hi Heather,

Do you prefer Birchwood Casey as apposed to other makes? I suppose Carr's comes to mind. also, could you suggest a trusted UK supplier for Birchwood Casey?

Nick
 

djparkins

Western Thunderer
Don't know if this makes it clearer for those that struggle to follow the way a brake works? I would never make a good teacher that's for sure with my little diagrams :headbang:View attachment 35581

Brian -

It isn't a question of not understanding how brakes work. You are quite right about this in relation to an unfitted two shoe mineral or a wagon with independent brakes such as the ex-LMS 16 tonners with bottom doors.

However, your earlier posting might have lead Ken & others to have assumed that this is the case on BOTH sides when assembling the linkage for ANY four shoe wagon and as you will know, if it is not independently braked, the brake rodding is then in line and this means that on the side without the clutch, the brake rodding IS right over left in relation to the cross-shaft and not as in your photo.

Our rodding can be assembled either way around, as it needs to be in our four shoe fitted minerals. We supply a scrap view of brake rodding [50% valid for our four shoe fitted minerals] but as always check your refences. We'll probably clarify this on the instructions for the 1/108s & 1/109s & Rebodied MCO [where this does not apply] but thought it would be obvious.

DJP/MMP
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
I last used a Carrs chemical blackening stuff many years ago, with unhappy results. I don't know if the formulation has changed since then, so can't really comment. The Birchwood stuff works a treat, and I started using it after reading Martyn Welch's book on weathering.

The surface to be blackened has to be fairly clean, or at least given a going over with a brass or steel brush. I used to apply the fluid with a cotton bud, but now I use an old sable paintbrush - I mean really old! I also dunk things like coupling hooks and buffer heads directly in the bottle for ten or more seconds, and then let them dry before giving them another brush, buff and dunk if needed. A method for blackening larger areas, such as complete loco frames, is used by Ian Middleditch. He dilutes the Birchwood chemical in quite a lot of tap water, and leaves things to "steep" over a period. I first used this method successfully on a JLTRT pannier tank build.

Once dry, you do need to give the parts a buff to remove the dried chemical. It leaves a kind of sooty residue, which is sometimes desirable for the effect of dirt, but most times needs polishing away.
 

Brian Daniels

Western Thunderer
I know Dave but I am trying to keep it simple and on subject regarding Kens MCO. As you say some better clarification in the instructions won't go amiss.
 

farnetti

Western Thunderer
Been away on a couple of hols and got back on Friday. As I was going to my first meeting of the S7 South West area group meeting since moving down this way I decided to correct the problem and take it with me. It took me all of 40 minutes (thank goodness I hadn't fixed the linkage arms). Photo below with side door hinges also added, looks a bit messy but haven't cleaned up yet.

The right hand brake shoe looks very close the wheel, no shorts but might tweak it a bit to be sure.
DSCN1041.JPGDSCN1042.JPG

I'd like to thank David, Brian and Heather for their very helpful input.

I've still to sort out the top side and end door locking chains not happy with them so far but don't hold your breath.

Ken
 
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