pcalkel
Active Member
Hi
I have some of these in a box, not sure what they were used with though, I will check and see how many I have.
best regards
Paul Stokes
S7 Stores
Modelling the Midland in S7
- Thread starter Crimson Rambler
- Start date
I have some of these in a box, not sure what they were used with though, I will check and see how many I have.
best regards
Paul Stokes
S7 Stores
Crimson Rambler
Western Thunderer
For various reasons this year I have only been able to spend short periods modelling so no progress worth photographing has been made on the Class N 0-6-0T. All has not been lost, instead efforts have been redirected to other aspects of developing my train set.
On Friday DH and I were able to meet in person for the first time since this wretched Covid business started so we took the opportunity of playing with his train set which is much, much further advanced than mine.
One good thing from the lockdown is that he was able to press on with the scenery and buildings - all much advanced since I last saw it. The above photo shews the turntable, water tower and shed office/mess room while the next one is of a former goods shed. Something after the manner of Rowsely this will become a permanent way yard.
But what use is a layout without locomotives so his Compound features below near the coaling stage while his open cab 0-6-0T keeps an eye on things.
A few more engines have joined in for the next view alongside the coaling stage. Peeping in at the left is the smokebox of the 0-6-0T. By the stage is his 'Princess of Wales' Single with the Compound just behind her. On the nearer road is one of the slide valve Singles No 34 built to O.745 - the model was a combined effort by John Horton and James Harwood. Just appearing above No 34's tender is Class R 4-4-0 No 2440 built by Geoff Holt, while just visible at the back is Class L 4-4-0 No 2193 built by James Harwood.
A slightly different view of the same engines less the tank engine. The difference in power potential of the larger 4-2-2 - a class 2 engine and No 34 of class 1 revealed by the former's longer firebox is noticeable. Slightly more can be seen of the two slim-boilered 4-4-0s together with JH's take on Midland red! The Class R and the Class L both carried the same boiler - the main difference between the classes being the R had piston valves while the L had slide. The need to increase the boiler pitch in No 2440 to accommodate the valves significantly altered the visual balance but the associated larger depth of frame above the platform is obscured in this view.
All however, is revealed in this final overhead shot.
Crimson Rambler
On Friday DH and I were able to meet in person for the first time since this wretched Covid business started so we took the opportunity of playing with his train set which is much, much further advanced than mine.
One good thing from the lockdown is that he was able to press on with the scenery and buildings - all much advanced since I last saw it. The above photo shews the turntable, water tower and shed office/mess room while the next one is of a former goods shed. Something after the manner of Rowsely this will become a permanent way yard.
But what use is a layout without locomotives so his Compound features below near the coaling stage while his open cab 0-6-0T keeps an eye on things.
A few more engines have joined in for the next view alongside the coaling stage. Peeping in at the left is the smokebox of the 0-6-0T. By the stage is his 'Princess of Wales' Single with the Compound just behind her. On the nearer road is one of the slide valve Singles No 34 built to O.745 - the model was a combined effort by John Horton and James Harwood. Just appearing above No 34's tender is Class R 4-4-0 No 2440 built by Geoff Holt, while just visible at the back is Class L 4-4-0 No 2193 built by James Harwood.
A slightly different view of the same engines less the tank engine. The difference in power potential of the larger 4-2-2 - a class 2 engine and No 34 of class 1 revealed by the former's longer firebox is noticeable. Slightly more can be seen of the two slim-boilered 4-4-0s together with JH's take on Midland red! The Class R and the Class L both carried the same boiler - the main difference between the classes being the R had piston valves while the L had slide. The need to increase the boiler pitch in No 2440 to accommodate the valves significantly altered the visual balance but the associated larger depth of frame above the platform is obscured in this view.
All however, is revealed in this final overhead shot.
Crimson Rambler
Crimson Rambler
Western Thunderer
In the odd moments time since I last posted anything on the Class N 0-6-0T I have been able to make some progress on the frames. Over last weekend (coinciding with the S7 AGM) it was tried out on DH's layout. I reckoned that a 7ft - 4ins x 7ft - 8ins wheelbase would need none or next to no sideplay to negotiate David's 12ft/1 in 7 points - and this seems to be the case.
Here it is posed outside the office block on David's S7 Midland engine shed layout. Its not waiting for overhead cateneries - I haven't connected the pick-ups to the motor.
For those of you who are not familiar with Midland engines this is David's version of the beast:-
And if my one turns out as good I will be well pleased.
Before I finish heare are a couple more views of the layout - the rails in the PW yard are destined to be rusted:-
Hope you find something of interest.
Crimson Rambler
Here it is posed outside the office block on David's S7 Midland engine shed layout. Its not waiting for overhead cateneries - I haven't connected the pick-ups to the motor.
For those of you who are not familiar with Midland engines this is David's version of the beast:-
And if my one turns out as good I will be well pleased.
Before I finish heare are a couple more views of the layout - the rails in the PW yard are destined to be rusted:-
Hope you find something of interest.
Crimson Rambler
Crimson Rambler
Western Thunderer
I thought it was high time I posted details of the progress with the Class N 0-6-0T. Trouble is while I have been very on the project there is not a lot to shew for my efforts as almost all of my time has been spent working out what items I have to make, how to make them followed by a start on making them.
Having reached the stage when some of these can be fitted I have taken these few few photos. Thus the buffer bodies and leading splashers have been made together with a start on cleaning up the chimney casting, while the portion of the frames above the platform in way of the smokebox has been replaced.
Before I can start fitting these new items permanently in place the wheels, axleboxes etc must be removed. That should be the next job but being a bit fiddly I'm much more likely to find something to delay it!
The next two photos demonstrates why I dislike making kits. I didn't like the fold-up splasher design provided so made a pair of replacements. The splashers are meant to be 4ft 2ins long overall but that is the length of the hole the kit designer provided in the platform – doh!
I am more than capable of making my own cock-ups without paying for the privilege of correcting those made by kit designers!! As this is meant to be the season of good will to all I shall say no more.
Wishing you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Crimson Rambler
Having reached the stage when some of these can be fitted I have taken these few few photos. Thus the buffer bodies and leading splashers have been made together with a start on cleaning up the chimney casting, while the portion of the frames above the platform in way of the smokebox has been replaced.
Before I can start fitting these new items permanently in place the wheels, axleboxes etc must be removed. That should be the next job but being a bit fiddly I'm much more likely to find something to delay it!
The next two photos demonstrates why I dislike making kits. I didn't like the fold-up splasher design provided so made a pair of replacements. The splashers are meant to be 4ft 2ins long overall but that is the length of the hole the kit designer provided in the platform – doh!
I am more than capable of making my own cock-ups without paying for the privilege of correcting those made by kit designers!! As this is meant to be the season of good will to all I shall say no more.
Wishing you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Crimson Rambler
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Not an Alan Gibson kit is it by any chance 
The 3F was the same, well not the same as the gaps were bigger, really gets my goat when they design splasher tops so short, if you don't know, or can't (be bothered?) work out the arc lengths, then make them too long so builders can at least have a fighting chance to cut them back to size.
Even if you can work out the length, it pays to have them slightly longer in case the etcher over cooks your artwork and they end up short through no fault of your own (developer).
Taking metal off to fit is really easy, adding it back on when it's too short is really really hard.
The 3F was the same, well not the same as the gaps were bigger, really gets my goat when they design splasher tops so short, if you don't know, or can't (be bothered?) work out the arc lengths, then make them too long so builders can at least have a fighting chance to cut them back to size.
Even if you can work out the length, it pays to have them slightly longer in case the etcher over cooks your artwork and they end up short through no fault of your own (developer).
Taking metal off to fit is really easy, adding it back on when it's too short is really really hard.
Ian@StEnochs
Western Thunderer
I am very pleased that the trade doesn’t consider the railway I model commercial so there are no cr##p kits to tempt me, However I am just as capable as you at making my own mistakes!
Ian
daifly
Western Thunderer
As well as some impressive scrartchbuilt Scottish beasties!
Making stuff - it's what we're all about.
Cheers
Dave
Overseer
Western Thunderer
I think the over length cut outs would have been an intentional design decision. Imagine the complaints there would be if ‘finescale’ flanges didn’t fit under the splashers.
I have built very few loco kits and this reminds me I should get on and finish a part built one. Unfortunately, unlike Ian I model a Scottish railway which has had a fair few loco kits produced over the years and I succumbed to one mainly to see how they dealt with the complex front end. No help at all. A few incorrectly shaped etched bits and instructions literally telling you to work it out for yourself.
It looks like the Midland tank is less compromised than many kits and you will end up with a good (and accurate) model.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Good point, in which case the splasher face should also be equally 'longer' and the top sheet lengthened to compensate.
There's three basic reasons that might account for this, the designer didn't measure or work out the relationship between the three components, he did work it out and didn't test build to spot the error; or, as is probably more likely, the etch has been over cooked by the etchers and it's been missed in the QA...by the etcher and the builder/seller.
Overcooking will reduce the size of the face plate and top sheet and it'll enlarge the opening both fit into. It doesn't take much to mess things up royally. I had an etch back where slots drawn at 0.4 were nearer/over 0.6, consequently the two sides and rear tank walls didn't even touch when placed in the slots. You can design your artwork to very close tolerances but if the etchers get lazy in their process and QA.....your stuffed!
Having said that, it appears the splasher top sheets are the correct width, either drawn correctly and the rest is wrong, or drawn over wide and over etching has made them fortuitously the right width
Personally I'm going with the tops are just too short, it's nothing unusual either, four of the last six models (from different stables) I've built all suffered from the same fate in one way or another, two never got past the first splasher top sheet before it and the rest were all rebuilt from scratch.
Last edited:
Crimson Rambler
Western Thunderer
David Hunt and I visited a friend of ours the day before the Midland Railway Society AGM. The friend owns the Midland Class H 0-6-0 built as a joint venture by Ron Spiers and Bernard Miller in the 'sixties. He graciously allowed us to borrow Nº 1440 which is to 33mm gauge so that we could see how it ran on David's S7 train set:-
It was the first completed of a small batch of Midland classes that were intended for W S Norris. Nº 1440 featured in an article Spiers wrote (Dec. 1973 issue of Model Railways) in which he advised Norris was interested in going to the wider gauge but died before the project came to fruition.
Nº 1440's owner thinks that this engine is the first example of 33mm gauge. He may be correct but personally I have some doubts simply because that prolific LNWR modeller Jim Richards was working in 33mm gauge around that time. Spiers was known as a LNWR modeller so he may perhaps have followed Richards. Be that as it may Nº 1440 is not actually to S7 standards albeit very close. The back to back is nominally 31mm while the wheel flanges are a little deeper than scale. Nevertheless the engine ran well enough through the crossings only in a couple of instances did the narrow back to back cause the wheel backs to rub on the check/wing rails.
I have long admired this model from when as an apprentice I saw it in the magazine. Ten or so years later when I changed to S7 decided I would also like a Class H 0-6-0. Naively thinking I had enough information and knowledge about Midland 0-6-0s I made a start. Due to subsequently studying for a degree followed by changes in occupation meant progress was slow nevertheless the engine in its part built state appeared over thirty years ago in a GOG Gazette. I have misplaced those photos but also included is a poor view of the unfinished cab controls:-
With hindsight the Class H was probably the most awkward Midland 0-6-0 class to have chosen. They were built by four different builders – Dubs, Derby, Stephensons and Beyer Peacock – with quite significant differences between them. While building the tender I found discrepancies in the GA drawing I was using which I discussed with David Tee but he was unable to help. These together with other errors present in the engine – not least a chimney 3ins too short! – resulted in the model being put away partially dismantled while more information was sought.
After a longer than anticipated delay a start has been made on building a replacement Class H – hopefully avoiding(!) the errors in the original. Currently this only exists as a number of parts but before starting to assemble them due to the time elapsed not modelling I elected to built the Class N 0-6-0T first as described at the beginning of this forum. Once this is finished – more piccies soon – it's back to the Class H.
Inspecting Nº 1440 it was interesting to see that the tender of the Spiers/Miller engine was given the feedwater arrangement of a Beyer Peacock Class H, something that is not appropriate for a Stephenson built example. That and some other anomalies makes me wonder if they experienced similar difficulties over information?
Crimson Rambler
It was the first completed of a small batch of Midland classes that were intended for W S Norris. Nº 1440 featured in an article Spiers wrote (Dec. 1973 issue of Model Railways) in which he advised Norris was interested in going to the wider gauge but died before the project came to fruition.
Nº 1440's owner thinks that this engine is the first example of 33mm gauge. He may be correct but personally I have some doubts simply because that prolific LNWR modeller Jim Richards was working in 33mm gauge around that time. Spiers was known as a LNWR modeller so he may perhaps have followed Richards. Be that as it may Nº 1440 is not actually to S7 standards albeit very close. The back to back is nominally 31mm while the wheel flanges are a little deeper than scale. Nevertheless the engine ran well enough through the crossings only in a couple of instances did the narrow back to back cause the wheel backs to rub on the check/wing rails.
I have long admired this model from when as an apprentice I saw it in the magazine. Ten or so years later when I changed to S7 decided I would also like a Class H 0-6-0. Naively thinking I had enough information and knowledge about Midland 0-6-0s I made a start. Due to subsequently studying for a degree followed by changes in occupation meant progress was slow nevertheless the engine in its part built state appeared over thirty years ago in a GOG Gazette. I have misplaced those photos but also included is a poor view of the unfinished cab controls:-
With hindsight the Class H was probably the most awkward Midland 0-6-0 class to have chosen. They were built by four different builders – Dubs, Derby, Stephensons and Beyer Peacock – with quite significant differences between them. While building the tender I found discrepancies in the GA drawing I was using which I discussed with David Tee but he was unable to help. These together with other errors present in the engine – not least a chimney 3ins too short! – resulted in the model being put away partially dismantled while more information was sought.
After a longer than anticipated delay a start has been made on building a replacement Class H – hopefully avoiding(!) the errors in the original. Currently this only exists as a number of parts but before starting to assemble them due to the time elapsed not modelling I elected to built the Class N 0-6-0T first as described at the beginning of this forum. Once this is finished – more piccies soon – it's back to the Class H.
Inspecting Nº 1440 it was interesting to see that the tender of the Spiers/Miller engine was given the feedwater arrangement of a Beyer Peacock Class H, something that is not appropriate for a Stephenson built example. That and some other anomalies makes me wonder if they experienced similar difficulties over information?
Crimson Rambler
Crimson Rambler
Western Thunderer
Just a short note to advise that it is with great sadness that I have just heard that Ken Cottle, one of the three leading lights involved in developing Scaleseven, died on Friday 19th May - he was 88.
Crimson Rambler
Crimson Rambler
Overseer
Western Thunderer
Sad news, thanks for letting us know. Ken’s engineering skills and lateral thinking were important in proving that S7 standards work well and are attainable by anyone, made easy using the various jigs and tools produced.
Tim Watson
Western Thunderer
Sorry to hear that Ken has died. I remember so well the 5516 group meetings we used to go to in the ‘80s.
Tim
Tim
Last edited:
Lancastrian
Western Thunderer
Crimson Rambler
Western Thunderer
Crimson Rambler
Western Thunderer
Realizing that nothing has been posted recently concerning my Class N 0-6-0T despite progress having been made on the beast, so to make amends albeit in a bit of a rush here are a couple of views of the bunker and the first tank - shewing progress to date:-
The bunker is almost finished with the major outstanding items being completing the coal rails and soldering in the sanding lever and the coal space division plate plus a trim strip. The lamp irons also need completing together with the hand brake handle and shaft. Also it needs a thorough clean but that won't be just yet.
Being fundamentally a very lazy modeller I use scale thickness materials - it saves having to (a) think and (b) remember when making parts to allow for overscale thicknesses. The logical extension to my mind in S7 of not having to make any allowances for departures in track gauge,r wheel width etc. Instead, as I used to tease John Horton, you work to dimensions! Bunker platework is 6 thou, nominally the equivalent of the 0.25in of the prototype. Unfortunately I don't have a source of 5 thou and 6 thou nickel silver sheet so in effect I use brass shimstock.
Of course the downside to this is, as can be seen in the embryonic driver's side tank, you have to include a representation of the internal support structure the prototype used.
Geoff Pember used a somewhat similar approach in the construction of the tender of his wonderful 7mm scale model of LNWR Precedent 2-4-0 No. 890 Sir Hardman Earle.
Crimson Rambler
The bunker is almost finished with the major outstanding items being completing the coal rails and soldering in the sanding lever and the coal space division plate plus a trim strip. The lamp irons also need completing together with the hand brake handle and shaft. Also it needs a thorough clean but that won't be just yet.
Being fundamentally a very lazy modeller I use scale thickness materials - it saves having to (a) think and (b) remember when making parts to allow for overscale thicknesses. The logical extension to my mind in S7 of not having to make any allowances for departures in track gauge,r wheel width etc. Instead, as I used to tease John Horton, you work to dimensions! Bunker platework is 6 thou, nominally the equivalent of the 0.25in of the prototype. Unfortunately I don't have a source of 5 thou and 6 thou nickel silver sheet so in effect I use brass shimstock.
Of course the downside to this is, as can be seen in the embryonic driver's side tank, you have to include a representation of the internal support structure the prototype used.
Geoff Pember used a somewhat similar approach in the construction of the tender of his wonderful 7mm scale model of LNWR Precedent 2-4-0 No. 890 Sir Hardman Earle.
Crimson Rambler
Crimson Rambler
Western Thunderer
LarryG
Western Thunderer
Excellent work. I love the MR livery and once called myself the 'Midland Livery Specialist' in adverts long when I was painting models part-time. For some reason, I missed this thread until today. It happens, but more so these days since the computer is forever asking me if I want to WAIT for a page to download of move on. It happens with websites as well as YouTube and I rather suspect BT has slowed things down so that I will eventually accept their latest wizz-bang faster speed offer and shell out more money.!!!