adrian
Flying Squad
Don't worry that's not normal. Once there's a lick of paint on it, it'll look great.
MOK Standard 4 2-6-0 in S7
- Thread starter SteveB
- Start date
warren haywood
Western Thunderer
Steve, don't clean it with a cleaning gun. A good friend of mine did his MOK Ivatt with one. It left a grainy texture to the metal which showed through the paint. Viakal and a tooth brush is ample, they are only stains and as Adrian says they get covered in paint. The primer I use doesn't need a key in the metal.
Mr Grumpy
Western Thunderer
Steve, as Warren says, I give my locos a squirt with Viakal and a gentle massage with a toothbrush and it works a treat!
I can't paint like Warren, but the paint stays where I spray it
Your loco looks outstanding!! The pipework is exquisite, you must have been a heating engineer in your previous life!
I can't paint like Warren, but the paint stays where I spray it
Your loco looks outstanding!! The pipework is exquisite, you must have been a heating engineer in your previous life!
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Warren,
Using a grit blaster, even the Badger one, would make me a bit nervous, but I can't see that using baking soda would be a problem. It's perfectly normal for US modellers to use one, even on plastics, to provide a key for the paint. There just isn't the mass, roughness or hardness in baking soda to do the damage that aluminium oxide or other grits can.
In the US the approach is common as etching primers don't seem to be available over the counter in quite the way they are here. It also helps with models that are made from a variety of materials, where an aggressive primer may not be appropriate.
Steph
Using a grit blaster, even the Badger one, would make me a bit nervous, but I can't see that using baking soda would be a problem. It's perfectly normal for US modellers to use one, even on plastics, to provide a key for the paint. There just isn't the mass, roughness or hardness in baking soda to do the damage that aluminium oxide or other grits can.
In the US the approach is common as etching primers don't seem to be available over the counter in quite the way they are here. It also helps with models that are made from a variety of materials, where an aggressive primer may not be appropriate.
Steph
adrian
Flying Squad
Definitely no to the grit blaster. I once tried it many years ago following the advice of a well known 7mm builder before I knew better, it basically shot peened the side of a tender that I'd built such that it now has a very distinct bow in 2 dimensions.
Never again.
Overseer
Western Thunderer
I think there are potential problems with baking soda blasting. Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate, a salt. While dry it may not cause problems but any water or moisture will dissolve it and could lead to corrosion of the brass or nickel silver. The baking soda should be very carefully cleaned off the model before painting, introducing another cleaning step.
Baking soda has also been recommended for cleaning stonework. On one project the contractor thought it would help to mix baking soda with water in the blasting. It was a pity he didn't have any knowledge of chemistry as the 'cleaning' resulted in the loss of quite a lot of the face of the sandstone. A nice safe food substance can have disastrous consequences when used in the wrong way.
Baking soda has also been recommended for cleaning stonework. On one project the contractor thought it would help to mix baking soda with water in the blasting. It was a pity he didn't have any knowledge of chemistry as the 'cleaning' resulted in the loss of quite a lot of the face of the sandstone. A nice safe food substance can have disastrous consequences when used in the wrong way.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
As others have said, if it's going to be painted then it doesn't matter.
Most of mine are not so need to be kept cleaner, the only miles mine will do are in the boot of the car too and from shows.
I'd give it all a good wash in Cillit Bang and scrub gently with an old tooth brush and I often use a ½" paint brush as well, it's bristles are finer and longer and get into nooks and crannies a tooth brush will not. Viakal will work fine too, but both will stain the metal if immersed for a long period and solder will turn dark grey.
It is only a stain and colouring, the finish will still be fine and that's the important part.
As overseer notes, baking soda leaves a salty dusty finish if the mix is too strong, especially to any areas of exposed solder, so needs cleaning with something else before painting; but it is good at neutralizing flux. I prefer sodium carbonate (dishwasher salt) it seems less aggressive, as opposed to Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda), I'm sure there's a very long technical difference between the two, chemistry never was my strong subject
, I only know that one you can put in food, the other you cannot .
I find a healthy dunk in cellulose thinners and brush with tooth brush and ½" paint brush before painting gets rid of most of the grease, but wear gloves, a: to protect your hands and b: to stop you putting more finger prints on the cleaned article.
It all looks very nice anyway
so nothing to worry about really 
MD
Most of mine are not so need to be kept cleaner, the only miles mine will do are in the boot of the car too and from shows.
I'd give it all a good wash in Cillit Bang and scrub gently with an old tooth brush and I often use a ½" paint brush as well, it's bristles are finer and longer and get into nooks and crannies a tooth brush will not. Viakal will work fine too, but both will stain the metal if immersed for a long period and solder will turn dark grey.
It is only a stain and colouring, the finish will still be fine and that's the important part.
As overseer notes, baking soda leaves a salty dusty finish if the mix is too strong, especially to any areas of exposed solder, so needs cleaning with something else before painting; but it is good at neutralizing flux. I prefer sodium carbonate (dishwasher salt) it seems less aggressive, as opposed to Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda), I'm sure there's a very long technical difference between the two, chemistry never was my strong subject
, I only know that one you can put in food, the other you cannot .I find a healthy dunk in cellulose thinners and brush with tooth brush and ½" paint brush before painting gets rid of most of the grease, but wear gloves, a: to protect your hands and b: to stop you putting more finger prints on the cleaned article.
It all looks very nice anyway
so nothing to worry about really MD
richard carr
Western Thunderer
Steve
I use the flux from building O gauge online and after every session I just rinse whatever I have been working on in cold water and it stays remarkably clean, almost a s clean as Mickoo's !
Richard
I use the flux from building O gauge online and after every session I just rinse whatever I have been working on in cold water and it stays remarkably clean, almost a s clean as Mickoo's !
Richard
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
I've always just cleaned with a toothbrush and cotton buds after every soldering session and then rinsed under the tap then left to dry.
Never had any problems.
Col.
Never had any problems.
Col.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Richard, exactly what I use and on the B1 I made a special effort to clean after each session, traditionally it'd be every couple of days or after each major session, but it has to be religious after each session or day to keep on top of it.
I simply use fairy liquid and hot water, I know fairy liquid probably leaves a film on the metal but ironically that seems to prevent further staining when I solder and further tarnishing if using brass. Sometimes I have a small bowl of warm water with some dishwasher salts dissolved in it and a dash of fairy liquid and clean in that and then rinse under running warm water.
I've found the biggest bug bear is green fungus and it always comes from hot flux spatter, never in the work area but near by and always after a bash at 400°C, the flux boils off rapidly and the super hot spatter is the root of the green fungus, as soon as I hear the flux sizzling I wash right away. Generally at 300°C it tends not to be a problem.
MD
SteveB
Western Thunderer
I appreciate all the advice.
I use the flux from O Gauge Online, I rinse the parts under the tap regularly during a soldering session after cleaning it with washing up liquid and I use Cillit Bang! So it seems like I’m doing most things right. Living in Daventry, the tap water is very hard, so maybe that’s causing me some issues. It always looks quite good as soon as its cleaned but I seem to get a white powdery substance appear once its dried. Maybe, this is just the limescale from the tap water?
Best results seem to be when I put the project into the dish washer and put it on the mucky pan cycle.
I’m going to order some more flux, just in case mine has become contaminated.
Anyone want to buy a soda gun and some soda?
Regards
Steve
I use the flux from O Gauge Online, I rinse the parts under the tap regularly during a soldering session after cleaning it with washing up liquid and I use Cillit Bang! So it seems like I’m doing most things right. Living in Daventry, the tap water is very hard, so maybe that’s causing me some issues. It always looks quite good as soon as its cleaned but I seem to get a white powdery substance appear once its dried. Maybe, this is just the limescale from the tap water?
Best results seem to be when I put the project into the dish washer and put it on the mucky pan cycle.
I’m going to order some more flux, just in case mine has become contaminated.
Anyone want to buy a soda gun and some soda?
Regards
Steve
warren haywood
Western Thunderer
Steve
The white is just residue from the cleaning chemicals, nothing to worry about as the final pre paint clean will get rid
The white is just residue from the cleaning chemicals, nothing to worry about as the final pre paint clean will get rid
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Steve, with the flux, only decant what you need, I decant a small amount into the bottom of a large jam jar, I never put the lid on and oddly it never seems to evaporate, the bit I have here (about 2mm in the bottom) has lasted for months and is probably very contaminated and still works well.
Decanting solves several things, a: if you knock it over you don't loose all of your flux in one hit, b: it's less to clean up and c: your original stock will remain contaminate free.
I'm about 3/5th of the way through my first bottle and that's taken a good three years, I've just bought two more new bottles which are sealed and will hopefully last my life time.
Once you've washed then dry it right away, I use a good quality kitchen roll, not toilet roll as those fibers are very loose and free, kitchen roll leaves far less loose fibers on the work afterward, mop up any excess puddles and dab dry, that might help with the white fur, I always get that on any solder residue when using a strong dishwater salt mix solution.
MD
Decanting solves several things, a: if you knock it over you don't loose all of your flux in one hit, b: it's less to clean up and c: your original stock will remain contaminate free.
I'm about 3/5th of the way through my first bottle and that's taken a good three years, I've just bought two more new bottles which are sealed and will hopefully last my life time.
Once you've washed then dry it right away, I use a good quality kitchen roll, not toilet roll as those fibers are very loose and free, kitchen roll leaves far less loose fibers on the work afterward, mop up any excess puddles and dab dry, that might help with the white fur, I always get that on any solder residue when using a strong dishwater salt mix solution.
MD
adrian
Flying Squad
I decant mine into a small dispensing bottle - no searching for the brush plus you can give it a quick swill around when any sediment settles.
They are often on special offer about half this price. PROSKIT INDUSTRIES - MS-035 - Solder Flux Dispensing Bottle 2 Pack | CPC UK
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Now that looks handy
I did try one of those pens with the brush in the end, it must of been defective because nothing came out of it and then the sides split so it went in the bin, normally I just use a small brush, a triple O is fine, it sits across the top of the jam jar.....unless I knock it off of course
I did try one of those pens with the brush in the end, it must of been defective because nothing came out of it and then the sides split so it went in the bin, normally I just use a small brush, a triple O is fine, it sits across the top of the jam jar.....unless I knock it off of course
richard carr
Western Thunderer
Yes you need a needle bottle for flux that way you can just put the tiniest amounts where you need them.
The best ones are by Plato but I can only find them in the US these days no one in the UK seems to sell them any more.
Ebay has reasonable alternatives.
Richard
The best ones are by Plato but I can only find them in the US these days no one in the UK seems to sell them any more.
Ebay has reasonable alternatives.
Richard
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
.....so have I.
Brian
Brian