D G Williams
Active Member
It is Carlisle on the Bishop's Castle Rly, a detail from a photo by, I think, H. C. Casserly (can't spell).
NRM under threat
- Thread starter makhis
- Start date
Wagonman
Western Thunderer
At Lydham Heath, from memory...
D G Williams
Active Member
Yes, at Lydham Heath.
Dave
Western Thunderer
Is it just me or does anyone else think these e-petitions are a waste of time? I remember one under the last government that was about road pricing. Apparently millions signed it and it was said to have been the greatest number to have signed one of these things...
At the end of it the government more or less said that they'd go ahead with it anyway if they got the chance!
In the old days some Downing Street lackey would have to physically take a paper petition and dump in in the bin; now all he has to do is press the delete key...
At the end of it the government more or less said that they'd go ahead with it anyway if they got the chance!
In the old days some Downing Street lackey would have to physically take a paper petition and dump in in the bin; now all he has to do is press the delete key...
Bob
Western Thunderer
In the old days some Downing Street lackey would have to physically take a paper petition and dump in in the bin; now all he has to do is press the delete key...
Just add the "spin" statement thanking the people who engaged in the process, quote some spurious statistics and then press the delete key and you have it, a government consultation process (from whichever side of the house). Mind you, the decision would have been made months before anyway but it's important we feel we've been listened to
.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
It's a shame the UK government are very afraid of referendums - unlike the Swiss..... Then being cynical I suppose the UK government are very relieved with voter apathy in type of scenario.
S
Simon Dunkley
Guest
Guys, this is getting close to politics.
Bob
Western Thunderer
Agreed, now back on topic
Does anyone agree with the school of thought that perhaps York and Darlington are too close to justify retention of both? Certainly the sheer quality and professionalism of the longer-established preserved railways (Bluebell/GCR/SVR etc) has come on so much beyond what was around when the NRM moved to Leeman Road back in 1975?
Perhaps there is scope for more of the national collection to be entrusted to preserved lines with perhaps the core collection (Scotsman/Truro etc) being housed at York? To my mind there is even a case for a dedicated NRM anexe purely covering diesels & electrics?
I hasten to add that I do not necessarily agree with the suggestions above (apart from the diesel annexe
but the ideas are not new and were reported as being discussed by the government department concerned a couple of years ago.
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Some good points there Bob, but I wonder if you're being a bit much of an 'enthusiast'? There's nothing wrong in that of course, but it's not the purpose of any of our national museums. Their primary reason is, always has been, and (in my mind) should continue to be education.
In the context of educating, informing and entertaining (sorry for nicking the old BBC mantra, but it seems apt) the NRM has to tell the fantastic story of our railways. It has to look beyond the locos, rolling stock, models, etc and establish the context for the items in the national collection on the basis of where they fit in that story. I know they've made some spectacular howlers in the past (10000, 10001, 87 101, etc.) and perhaps even today in the fantastic ineptitude around Flying Scotsman.
I actually agree quite strongly in the need to make the national collection more accessible; get it out there into the care of individuals and displayed on as many sites as possible. But it can't jeopardise the ability to tell a sensible story at the main museum. And breaking the diesels and electrics out into a separate annex, even on the same site, would put a major (and largely artificial) break in that story.
As a free-form thought; surely the value for us as enthusiasts is actually primarily in the records kept by the museums, rather than the more obvious artefacts (the locos)? In which case we should be lobbying for the retention of MSIM as well as the NRM; the collection there is priceless and has a much greater value in Manchester than it would in York, Shildon or London.
Steph, in a slightly expansive mood.
AJC
Western Thunderer
The episode of the early diesels - while unfortunate - is not really relevant to the modern museum while, from a collection management point of view, the important bits of 87101 were technical and not visible when actually inside the loco' so far as I understand it.
The difficulty with accessibility in this respect is the disjuncture between the way in which museums operate (and this is what the NRM is - enthuiusiasts tend to forget this - it operates according to the manner and nature of museums; we're interested because it happens to house things we're interested in) and what enthusiast-run preservation and tourist sites actually do and are capable of when if comes to accessioned, managed objects judged according to their historical value and the managment plans thereof. It has been proven, unfortunately, that not every preservation organisation is capable of this and the NRM report on the management of the Scotsman debacle rather showed this up.
Museums are a large, regulated, sector with established 'best-practice' and professional standards (even if we might not always agree with them) while railway preservation is, for the most part, as the man from Tysley had it, 'a cottage industry'. The author was equally scathing about the NRM's competence to manage the engineering task on Scotsman and rightly so; museums are not generally in that sort of business, even if, in this case, they may need to be. For a museum - any museum - to put items from its collections in the care of other organisations is a risk and one which doesn't always end well which is why structures for collection management are in place. The situation with the collection of the former Empire and Commonwealth museum in Bristol demonstrates why such mechanisms need care* as does the unfortunate episode of the ex-NRM Cowans Sheldon steam crane sent for scrap by the North Staffs Railway contrary to the disposal agreement made with the NRM. My suspicion, for what it's worth, is that Shildon may only survive as a storage site in the longer term. Not ideal, but still serving a useful function.
Adam
*Although in that case, the loan was from a private invidual; mismanagement of the collection led to items being sold by the museum and not recorded.
Ressaldar
Western Thunderer
the latest from the Beeb
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22948171
fingers crossed that it doesn't close
cheers
Mike
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22948171
fingers crossed that it doesn't close
cheers
Mike
