Rescuing a Martin Finney Princess Coronation

Scanlon

Scanlon

Western Thunderer
As far as I'm concerned the Stanier Princess Coronation locos were the zenith of British steam power. In my personal opinion the only machines to rival a Bulleid pacific but I'm sure you have your own favourite. For a while I owned a Fine Scale Brass model but parted with it a while ago. However when a Martin Finney model appeared for sale I was tempted. The loco was on sale via Steamlines Limited and the photos on the website showed a number of issues, not least the cab being at a jaunty angle as these photos show!
LM6233A.jpg

LM6233E.jpg
photos courtesy of Steamline Ltd.

Thanks to Chris Aldred I received a number of more informative illustrations and these were thoroughly reviewed in conjunction with Dikitriki, the consensus being the model could be salvaged. Armed accordingly I reserved the model with the agreement final inspection at the Bristol show by the Finney7 team and Warren Heywood would see the deal confirmed or not.

Suffice to say all parties having seen the loco in the" flesh" urged me to purchase the model. The immediate thoughts of the Finney7 team was the boiler had been mounted too far forward and this would account for the poorly fitted cab. Yesterday armed with screwdrivers and a great deal of patience the loco was reduced to a kit of parts.
Parts 250117.JPG

Generally the model has been well built but with a number of compromises especially on the valve gear and accounts for the droopy look of the valve rods. The paint job has done nothing for what is a brilliant kit and the model is so oily it rivals the Torrey Canyon oil slick! Yes I'm that old!

This will not be a speedy rebuild, nor will it be up to Dikitriki's standard but I want to give this loco a new lease of life. The first job is to get rid of the paint job and see exactly what is underneath all that gunge. A major problem will be removing the cylinders and motion brackets, in places they have been soldered in making disassembly somewhat tricky. As for missing or damaged etchings, fortunately the kit contains lots of spares and thanks to Dikitriki some can be provided from his build. To bring the model up to the later condition a few Ragstone parts will be used. Bear with me and hopefully this oily swan will grace Heyside as 46234 Duchess of Abercorn in 1961 condition.
 
Silverystreaks

Silverystreaks

Western Thunderer
Yes Duchess Montrose my very first train set. I can get misty eyed just thinking about it.

Looking forward to following this thread
 
Dikitriki

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
It was a real oddball this!

It was with some trepidation that I assessed it at Bristol, especially as I couldn't go too far with a model that wasn't Roger's at that point. Looking at the individual units, and I had the advantage in knowing exactly how it went together - and how to disassemble it as well - it was clear the builder knew what he was doing. I eased off a few screws and finding that the main body had (correctly) been screwed and not glued to the footplate, said to Roger that it was doable.

The disassembly went well, and Roger was left with the units in his picture. A close inspection of those units showed that they had all been built straight and true, and that it was the final assembly that had let the builder down. It was the smokebox and boiler being too far forward that meant that the top of the cab was pulled forward leading to the jaunty angle described. The cab and cab roof are fine otherwise. So the body and tender are a simple strip and reassembly, and I doubt that Roger will find any other problems. The chassis will be more tricky (and it has the inside cranks and rods) but once the cylinder block had been removed, is a straightforward strip and repaint. The only issue is really the valve gear, or rather the valve rods, rocking arms and inside valve rods, the latter 2 of which were not present.

As a wider point, the location of, and relationship between, the cab, boiler, smokebox and footplate, can have some issues, and we (Finney7) will cover this when we rewrite the instructions to match the new house style. No more jaunty cabs!

Richard
 
Scanlon

Scanlon

Western Thunderer
Thanks Richard for your assessment. Boy am I going to need help, a strip down of the frames resulted in most of the Torrey Canyon slick covering me. There are major problems on the frames and I'm going to need a tremendous amount of help to get this loco running again. More news and photos later but the photos will not be pretty!
 
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Scanlon

Scanlon

Western Thunderer
Phrases like Don't panic, we're doomed spring to mind with this loco. Today a visit to the Ragstone emporium to collect some parts to bring this loco up to a 1960's condition resulted in further stripping down. From the Ragstone range I have obtained external water sieves for the tender, various parts for the AWS and most importantly a pair of cast valve rockers and valve rods.

Andy wanted to understand why the cylinders and motion bracket would not lift out as one unit. Large amounts of solder were removed but this only achieved minor movement of the motion bracket but nothing else. So with my days work on 34010 completed I decided to take another look at the frames. Before investigating the known problems I removed the wheels, coupling rods, connecting rods and crossheads etc. Sounds easy but the return crank on the drivers side just turned and eventually I removed the driving wheel complete with side rods and connecting rod plus crosshead! Then three of the four slidebars fell off! This little exercise transferred most of the oil slick from the loco onto me!

Returning to the cylinders, there was a huge gob of solder holding the front of the etch onto a frame cross member. Andy had cut through this in the hope the cylinders would lift out.
Frames 270117 (4).JPG
No joy and I suspect they are soldered elsewhere to the frames, but where?
Frames 270117 (6).JPG

Frames 270117 (7).JPG
As of now I have no idea. I also noticed all the anti vacuum valve castings were fitted upside down so these were removed and put in the rapidly filling parts box.

Attention now turned to the motion bracket which had shown signs of moving. Using a Dremel with a small wire brush lots of solder was removed which was holding the motion bracket to the frames. A scalpel cut through the remaining solder and it slowly started to lift up. Then I discovered the etch was fractured on both sides along a curved(?) section of etch which eventually supports the slidebars. Before removing the bracket completely I quickly tacked the bits together.
Frames 270117 (1).JPG
Very carefully the whole assembly was eased out albeit forced at the front because of the cylinder problem. Not surprisingly the valve rods which really were much too long came off rather worse than I had hoped.
Frames 270117 (2).JPG

Frames 270117 (3).JPG

With the bracket removed I compared it with the photos of Richards motion bracket as shown in his thread on building a Duchess. I am now quite convinced that at some time this model met with a big accident. The whole thing is twisted, there are big gobs of solder all over the place and very little is straight. The general build of the frames is not too bad but the motion bracket bears no comparison. A lot of work will be needed to restore this part and get it to sit level rather than being too high at the firebox end.

A very minor issue still to be overcome is that I cannot remove the trailing driving axle from the gearbox. Yes the grub screw has been slackened off.
Frames 270117 (8).JPG

Well what other horrors await me?
 

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AJC

AJC

Western Thunderer
Crikey, what an appalling mess! The rescue job should be well worth seeing: good luck.

Adam
 
mickoo

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Get some celly thinners, pour into a tallish container, something that you can up end the chassis into, flower vase are good for this....word of advice, go buy your own from the cheap £ shop of something.....do not use the domestic gods one, trust me I know!

Fill with thinners, drop the whole front end in and leave over night, that way you may have half a chance of finding what's holding it all together.

Don't be shy, get rid of all of that paint, you'll have to do it at some point, shame the motor won't come out so you can do the rear end as well, I'd be tempted to sacrifice it anyway and dunk the rear end, you'll spend so much time trying to get it out it's probably cheaper to cut it out and buy new.

The thinners should also help de-grease the whole lot as well.

Looking at the rear axle it looks like it's sprung and the only thing holding it in is the spring, unsolder that and you may be able to drop the rear axle and motor out the bottom of the chassis.

Good luck :thumbs:
 
simond

simond

Western Thunderer
I'm with Mick on this one, but perhaps, you could dunk the motor end in, just up to the axle - IPA probably won't hurt the motor, (or get rid of the paint) and anything strong enough to dissolve the paint will probably nadger the motor which looks to be a good one, so be careful how much acetone or celly thinners you use. It won't hurt the gears or bearings, and it might soften any adhesive.

Of course, if the unit will come out of the frames, so much the easier.

Watching with interest
Simon
 
Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
The motor looks like an Escap (good). If it's on a Portescap gearbox (less good) I'd suggest getting it out however you can and get ABC to put a decent gearbox on it.

Of course, if it's already on an ABC gearbox then Brian will be able to sort it for you - even if it's got a section of axle stuck in it.

Steph
 
Len Cattley

Len Cattley

Western Thunderer
I do what Mick suggest get the motor out then dunk it in thinners, when all the paint is off use a micro flame to take it appart. Best of luck.

Len
 
Scanlon

Scanlon

Western Thunderer
Gentlemen,
Thanks one and all for all your thoughts and suggestions. Tony's last comment made me laugh, you'd think this was a gladiatorial spectacle, just not sure if the thumb is up or down. Dismantling a model is never a "happy" task but this one is proving to be a pain in the proverbial. I'm probably at my lowest ebb with this rebuild and shortly the only way will be upwards.

As for the gearbox I've spied a nylon gearwheel, think a Finney7 gearbox will be soon be installed!

Happy days.
Roger
 
oldravendale

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Hi Roger.

Hopefully for inspiration.......

No doubt Steph will remember this - I bought a basket case but complete unpainted JM MR 3F at the Langley Show many years ago for about £100 - maybe less. Money was scarce at the time! It was my second loco build after a Jim McGeown "Pocket Money Kits" Jinty. I wish I'd taken photos of it when I got it home, but it was stripped to component parts, solder removed and scrubbed clean before reassembly. This is what it looks like now, and it's one of the sweetest running locos I have.

LMS 3F 0-6-0. JM Kits (1).JPG

The Coronation is a bigger challenge for sure, but once it's in bits things will start to look rosier.

Brian
 
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