Rescuing a Martin Finney Princess Coronation

[dibateg]

Looks very nice Brian! Yes stripping a finished model apart is always messy and it often looks like it's one step away from the bin, but once it's down to the constituent parts, cleanup and repair/replacement can take place. I suppose it's about judging how far to go taking it apart...

Regards
Tony

 

[Scanlon]

OK, today I should have been working on the West Country but I just had to put some of the advice I received on Friday and Saturday to good use. Thanks again to everyone who suggested ways forward and I am surprised at the level of interest this rebuild has attracted. By the way while on the SVR last weekend I was asked to rebuild another Coronation but not sure which kit! Oh what have I let myself in for?

This morning I got my cellulose bath out and dunked as many bits of the loco as I could into the clear liquid, it didn't stay that colour for very long as you can see, there is a wagon in there as well!


Heaven knows what paint had been used but it was a good 20 minutes before anything started to bubble up. In all it took the better part of 2 hours to get to a decent finish. About 90% of the paint had finally dissolved and been scrubbed off, the remainder would have to go by other means. Each end of the frames were dunked in varying depths of thinners leaving only the rear axle plus motor area to deal with. The previous builder had used lining tape and this defied the thinners and only gave up when faced with the Dremel.

During the scrubbing quite a lot of the whitemetal fittings came off. This is worrying because how many others might come loose elsewhere? In addition the outside frames for the tender fell apart and a buffer and step came off.


With much of the paint gone I could see the solder and in places there was a huge amount and in others just a quick swipe so to speak. At the end of the session I had quite a number of loose parts all of which must find their way back onto the engine. Although I think I know where they came from, may I borrow a set of build instructions please?

The parts were left to dry off before a start was made on cleaning up. I have used 6 Dremel steel wire brushes to get rid of the remaining paint and to scrub up the metalwork. For the whitemetal castings a brass brush has been used. In truth the build is quite good and I am surprised at the level of added detail that has been exposed. There is a considerable amount of pipework from the lubricators and much of it has been modelled even if it does go under the splashers instead of over them! I'm not sure I would have done as much.


With most of the parts sparkling I could not resist starting to rebuild something and decided to tackle the tender. The frames were rebuilt and just in case the axleboxes were to come loose I added some solder behind the frames to keep them in place. Quite a few small etches had come loose or been bent out of shape by the cleaning. These have been soldered back into place and cleaned up. The biggest problem was the way the tender bodysides had been soldered to the base. This had left gaps at each slot on the outside of the body and was quite unsightly. I have filled both sides and they look better but need more work. So now the loco looks like this


As you can see there is still a lot to do , the cylinders to remove, the motor to remove but hopefully later this week these problems will have been tackled. The cab has scrubbed up very nicely but the inside has some tricky corners still to be relieved of paint.


As I said on Sunday the only way is up from here. Tomorrow I must get on with the West Country.

 

[mickoo]

Now that looks much much better.

Shame some of the bits came off, but look at it another way, they would of anyway in time and fitting them back to a painted model would not have gone well if you needed to solder.

I am trying hard not to buckle and add one of these to my collection

MD

 

[Dikitriki]

That was well worth the effort, not least because we can more readily determine what's soldered around the cylinder area.

You can borrow my instructions Roger, I will have the new F7 ones to assess/pull apart/revise/rewrite, so the originals are spare.

Richard

 

[Scanlon]

Hi Mick,
Somehow this kit does not seem as daunting as I expected, go on add one to your collection. Bits falling of now I'll count as a blessing rather than a curse

Richard,
Thanks for your help and the loan of the instructions. Its going to be those odd pieces of etch which will need identifying and relocating.

 

[mickoo]

Roger, the problem is I'm a devout LMR man and would go into a frenzy of detail, great for me, bad for Finney7 and bad for the kit as I'd punch great big holes in it and add all the internal stays and frames supports, it'll probably end up with a whole new designed chassis if I'm honest. I worked out on the DA A3 that it would of been quicker to have done that than hashing around with what I had and adding bits here and there and always compromising.

So, if you're going to go that crazy you might as well do it in 1:32 and do a 'right proppa job matey'

Both the Princess Royal and Princess Coronation are very high on my personal want list, as are one or two others, it's not a case of if but when and what scale. Accepting that I'll never have a decent train set and I'm a detail freak then 1:32 is the logical choice.

However I do keep coveting Richards at shows and that front footplate drop plate would have to go for a utility style front, might even have that option in the kit, I don't honestly know as I dare not look for fear of loosing my will to resist.

Daunting lol, once you've built a Finney7 Bulleid Light Pacific (BLP) then everything else is a walk in the park on a balmy summers eve The BLP is quite a complex kit in certain areas and keeps you on your toes so to speak.

MD

 

[warren haywood]

Oh yes mick, both front ends are catered for, and both tender styles,
Go on you know you want to

Got one here with Harris Wheels, will have its first coats of crimson lake tomorrow, to be Duchess of Rutland

 

[mickoo]

Oh yes mick, both front ends are catered for, and both tender styles,
Go on you know you want to

Got one here with Harris Wheels, will have its first coats of crimson lake tomorrow, to be Duchess of Rutland

Drat! it's not that I need much pushing...honest.

 

[Len Cattley]

I like to get a Duchess with Elliot's wheels, that's my wish list.

Len

 

[markjj]

I like to get a Duchess with Elliot's wheels, that's my wish list.

Len

I think a lot of us have this on our wish list....

 

[Scanlon]

Despite the silence of the last few weeks I assure you there has been considerable progress with 46234. With Richard's help the outside cylinders were very easily taken out of the frames, just two small areas of solder needed removing. Why had I not seen this before? However, taking Mickoo's advice I unsoldered the springs on the rear driving axle and eventually the motor and gearbox was released. It will find a use in a smaller loco and has been replaced with an MSC helical gearbox and motor, much more suitable.

While Richard had his "gas axe" out the opportunity was taken to remove the cab roof, this has enabled further cleaning of the inside of the cab to remove any remaining paint and rectifying some build anomalies, like seats being L shaped and the whistle handles re-positioned correctly away from the roof ventilator. The cab ventilator has been opened up and as the rear pillars of the cab had been incorrectly formed this has been altered.

With the motor etc. removed the frames were given another bath to remove the remaining paint. As I have said before it was horrible stuff and took a lot to remove it. Naturally lots of bits fell off but they were all rescued and put aside for refitting but at last I had reached the point where only rebuilding could follow. There then followed a slight hiatus while my workbench was relocated and the masses of stuff collected thereunder found new homes.

So rebuilding has started in earnest starting with the boiler backhead

During cleaning most of the fittings fell off so I decided to start again, fortunately most of the pipework could be rescued. The cab had the seats, reverser, windshields, fallplate and doors refitted and a trial fit on the running plate showed no problems. On the running plate the two leading splasher tops were carefully unsoldered and then refitted under the pipework. The sandbox filler pipes and shields have still to be fitted.

The frames have been completely rebuilt and reassembled.
According to the build instructions the motion bracket is formed of four etches, well I had six! I took advice and rebuilt it in situ along with the cylinders and slidebars. After rebuilding the assembly was taken out of the frames, all the joints were beefed up and then tidied up. The bogie and pony trucks were dismantled and rebuilt then everything was sprayed. Meanwhile the wheels were given a bath in thinners to prepare them for a repaint.

The original builder had simplified the valve gear and did not fit the rocking levers and inside valve rods. I have managed to acquire replacements from the Ragstone range but inevitably they are not entirely compatible with the Finney build. Tomorrow I plan to install these items plus the reverser and lifting links to complete installation of the valve gear.

Warren Heywood kindly stripped the resin boiler as I did not feel competent to do this. It was returned at the Kettering show and hopefully later this week will be reunited with the running plate and cab. So tonight the loco looks like this.

To achieve as accurate a model as possible the rebuilding is being done using photos of 46234 in its 1959 condition.

 

[Scanlon]

At last the weigh shaft, reversing rod and inside motion have been installed. For some unknown reason the weigh shaft arms on the firemans side of the loco were missing. It was obvious they had never been installed as the weigh shaft had been finished off at the bearing point as this pre restoration photo shows.

Fortunately I had a suitable pair of arms of the correct length but not fully representative of the Stanier shape. The drivers side therefore was unsoldered to produce the correct external arms on each side. The other arms were used on the inside where they cannot be seen. The valve gear has been set in forward gear. Installing the reverser rod was straightforward.

The rocking shaft castings required only minor modification to make them fit, this amounted to drilling the pivot point slightly off centre. The outer ends of the shafts did not exactly marry up with the holes in the outside valve rods so new ones were drilled about 1.5mm towards the valve glands. Inside the frames I used 12BA washers to simulate the inner glands and provide support for the inside valve rods.


Looking at the photo of the boiler backhead has shown me just how incomplete and shoddy my work has been, what a mess I have left after soldering pipes back in place. More work on this item will be very necessary.

So tonight the frames look like this

Maybe tomorrow the boiler, cab and running plate will be reunited.

 

[Compton castle]

Roger, the problem is I'm a devout LMR man and would go into a frenzy of detail, great for me, bad for Finney7 and bad for the kit as I'd punch great big holes in it and add all the internal stays and frames supports, it'll probably end up with a whole new designed chassis if I'm honest. I worked out on the DA A3 that it would of been quicker to have done that than hashing around with what I had and adding bits here and there and always compromising.

So, if you're going to go that crazy you might as well do it in 1:32 and do a 'right proppa job matey'

Both the Princess Royal and Princess Coronation are very high on my personal want list, as are one or two others, it's not a case of if but when and what scale. Accepting that I'll never have a decent train set and I'm a detail freak then 1:32 is the logical choice.

However I do keep coveting Richards at shows and that front footplate drop plate would have to go for a utility style front, might even have that option in the kit, I don't honestly know as I dare not look for fear of loosing my will to resist.

Daunting lol, once you've built a Finney7 Bulleid Light Pacific (BLP) then everything else is a walk in the park on a balmy summers eve The BLP is quite a complex kit in certain areas and keeps you on your toes so to speak.

MD

7mm Princess from Finney 7 Oh yes

 

[Len Cattley]

I think it might be 1/32 from Mick

 

[mickoo]

Not to dilute Rogers thread further, but there's some LNER stuff first, but anything is possible in the future

MD

 

[Scanlon]

I am amazed at the interest shown in this particular thread. It has obviously struck a chord with many of you and I'm delighted this rather sorry loco is slowly being regenerated into what I hope will be a smashing model. If it tempts others to take on what seems to be a "dog" all I can say is have a go. So what has been achieved in the last two days?

In order to ensure the boiler fitted correctly I yet again sought the help of Richard to make a success of installing this all important "bit". You may recall the major problem was the cab leaning forward at a rakish angle. After some judicious filing the boiler was a much better fit than previously. I was left to continue reconstruction at home together with a short list of alterations that should be made to make life easier. At that time I was still left with a gap of about 50 thou between the cab front and rear of the firebox caused by the cab apparently sagging very slightly.

To try and overcome the cab issue I soldered a plate inside the cab and added an 8BA nut and bolt, this ensured the front of the cab was exactly in line and at 90⁰ with the running plate. Lo and behold the 50 thou gap vanished, well almost! This was not expected and I was very much relieved. On the interface between the driver's side of the firebox and cab front there was still a slight gap. I blame this on the previous owner and the fact he had filled the gap with what looked like car filler. Although I had been very careful removing this I must have chipped away just a little of the resin so this will have to be addressed.

The smokebox was still at a jaunty angle but this was quickly remedied by removing some of the resin above the rear splashers, another tip from Richard!

Buoyed up with this success I screwed the boiler to the running plate and cab and then added the frames. Immediately yet again a problem arose in the cab area with a gap forming with the rear left hand corner of the cab lifting away from the running plate. This did not manifest itself with just the cab bolted to the running plate. There followed a few frustrating hours with everything being dismantled and reassembled a number of times. Eventually I discovered the rear of the running plate was twisted so yet another rebuild became necessary. So what do you think?


At last I have a Princess Coronation, well almost. There is a lot of detailing still to be done but at least the sandbox fillers plus shields and the injector delivery pipes are in place.

 

[dibateg]

Is there anything on the chassis that is forcing the running plate in tot twist Roger? Is there a specific section that is twisted - can you tell? I wondering whether its possible to get back by brute force, or secure one end and loosen it up with a micro torch...

Tony

 

[Scanlon]

Almost there!

 

[3 LINK]

Hi Roger,

Wow! I'm not usually a fan of smoke deflectors, but to me they really suit this loco. It gives the engine a real presence, great to see it being rebuilt to what it should of looked like in the first place.

Regards,

Martyn.

 

[Scanlon]

The last few days has seen the final detailing put onto 46234. This has concentrated on fitting the AWS and its various reservoirs and pipework, in addition to the speedometer. The conduiting for the AWS is a tortuous affair but fortunately there is a smashing photo of City of Bristol in Stanier Pacifics by Derek Huntriss to help. Copyright belongs to N.Fields,
what a pity this magnificent machine has been defiled by that horrible yellow stripe.

Here is my effort at reproducing the conduit.

So now the loco is almost ready for a Warren Heywood paint job. After more cleaning the locomotive now looks grand

All that remained to do was fit the DCC chip and to check the running on Heyside. Although there had been work necessary on the frames I did not expect the problems that were to arise. During rebuilding the frames were tested at each stage of rebuilding by wiring the motor direct to a DC controller. Now with everything in place the loco took to the rails and disaster!

The original builder has used the US method for current collection and I saw no reason to change this although truth be told I do not favour it. The driver's side of the loco lit up with magic blue light and sparks everywhere between frame and all driving wheels; this was on DC! In all my building career I have never experienced such a show, yes I've had the odd spark but nothing more. As for trying it under DCC control; forget it! Panic phone calls followed and it was suggested that additional spacers on the axles on the light show side might help and it did. The light show was gone but still the loco would not run on DCC.

My test track is only 5 amp and I could not reproduce any sparks to give me a clue as to what might be interfering with what. Using Richards 10 amp equipment showed issues with brake hangers, brake shoes, almost all of the sand gun brackets and more. The trouble was that to start to rectify all these issues the frames had to be stripped right down, not something I wanted to do but the bullet had to be bitten. So now the loco is reduced to this

Considerable work has been undertaken on the frames and some success achieved. I now have an overlong 0-6-0 which will run on DCC only in reverse! The moment I press the forward button it immediately shorts out again. Heaven knows where the problem lies but hopefully it can be tracked down soon.