Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Many thanks Mark,
I will print the revisions off and go to do further battle.
I will print the revisions off and go to do further battle.
7mm Rob Pulham's Work Bench - Back (again) to the LNER 06 (MOK 8F)
- Thread starter Rob Pulham
- Start date
I’ve built a 3mok kits and due to my lack of skills and some MOK problems I’ve ended up phoning Dave Sharp many times. The most recent build was a 9F which had many instruction faults and some kit problems. Dave was very helpful and was always willing to help me sort out the problems I had.
I can only suggest that you phone him if you don’t sort it out.
Kev
I can only suggest that you phone him if you don’t sort it out.
Kev
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
I am having a little more one step forward and two back with this build and it’s my own silly fault. In my eagerness to crack on I hadn’t noticed a photo in the Wild Swan LMS Loco profiles book on the 8F’s that shows the inside of the cab and more importantly the backhead. It seems that I have too much pipe work for my period so some of it needs to come off again.
I am thanking myself in that I took the extra time and effort to make most of the parts removable because that will make redoing it much easier.
This shows how the parts are removable
Below is a crop of the cab photo in the Wild Swan book. The photo is credited to the National Railway Museum and is used here purely to illustrate the differences between what I have done and what I should have done.
I am thanking myself in that I took the extra time and effort to make most of the parts removable because that will make redoing it much easier.
This shows how the parts are removable
Below is a crop of the cab photo in the Wild Swan book. The photo is credited to the National Railway Museum and is used here purely to illustrate the differences between what I have done and what I should have done.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Although there are glaring gaps in the instructions, one part is explicit, that of forming the smokebox and boiler.
The boiler comes pre rolled and according to the instructions so does the smokebox inner but mine wasn't. That wasn't an issue and I soon had it rolled.
Now for the 'I'm a dummy' bit, the instructions are quite explicit about using two of the formers for the x71 and x72 (sorry I can't remember if the preceding number is 1 or 3). Leaving x70 to go in the smaller end of the boiler. Because they all look identical (but aren't Grrr) I managed to pick up the wrong one and only discovered my error when I had it all nicely soldered together.
My only saving grace was that I discovered the error (part x70 is slightly bigger than x71/x72) before I soldered the other wrong bit (x70) into the smokebox). At 11:15 on Tuesday night I didn't have the headspace to sort it out so I went to bed.
This morning I set to and using a pointed scalpel and gentle heat from the micro flame I slowly worked my way around easing the boiler away from the former with regular quenching to take it out and replace it with part x70.
Thankfully I got away with it, in part I think due to the fact that I had soldered it in initially using the microflame to chase around a tiny amount of solder which meant that although it was held very securely it was easy to break the bond from the thin layer of solder.
This is the boiler and smokebox assembly after my recovery.
Those with sharp eyes will not the piece of scrap protruding from the front of the smokebox.
There is a clever bit of the etch designed to ensure that you get everything lined up by inserting a piece of scrap into a slot etched into each of the three forward formers
I left it longer than suggested and used it to view down through all the apertures in the boiler top. In fact I left it in place as I soldered on the castings on top of the boiler. To solder these cleanly I flattened a couple of small bit's of 145 solder in some pliers, placed them either side of the chimney opening after using a taper broach to open the hole up to take the spigot from the casting as tightish fit. a squirt of flux and then I place the chimney on top ensuring that it was square I heated the casting with the microflame until the solder melted allowing the casting to sink into place. - Repeated for the next casting (which I have to be honest and say I have no idea of the name or purpose of it).
At this point the Firebox, boiler and smoke box are all a nice tight push fit I won't make it more permanent until I am happy with everything.
Finally, I had fitted the cab roof on Tuesday but I still need to sort out the subframe under the floor.
The boiler comes pre rolled and according to the instructions so does the smokebox inner but mine wasn't. That wasn't an issue and I soon had it rolled.
Now for the 'I'm a dummy' bit, the instructions are quite explicit about using two of the formers for the x71 and x72 (sorry I can't remember if the preceding number is 1 or 3). Leaving x70 to go in the smaller end of the boiler. Because they all look identical (but aren't Grrr) I managed to pick up the wrong one and only discovered my error when I had it all nicely soldered together.
My only saving grace was that I discovered the error (part x70 is slightly bigger than x71/x72) before I soldered the other wrong bit (x70) into the smokebox). At 11:15 on Tuesday night I didn't have the headspace to sort it out so I went to bed.
This morning I set to and using a pointed scalpel and gentle heat from the micro flame I slowly worked my way around easing the boiler away from the former with regular quenching to take it out and replace it with part x70.
Thankfully I got away with it, in part I think due to the fact that I had soldered it in initially using the microflame to chase around a tiny amount of solder which meant that although it was held very securely it was easy to break the bond from the thin layer of solder.
This is the boiler and smokebox assembly after my recovery.
Those with sharp eyes will not the piece of scrap protruding from the front of the smokebox.
There is a clever bit of the etch designed to ensure that you get everything lined up by inserting a piece of scrap into a slot etched into each of the three forward formers
I left it longer than suggested and used it to view down through all the apertures in the boiler top. In fact I left it in place as I soldered on the castings on top of the boiler. To solder these cleanly I flattened a couple of small bit's of 145 solder in some pliers, placed them either side of the chimney opening after using a taper broach to open the hole up to take the spigot from the casting as tightish fit. a squirt of flux and then I place the chimney on top ensuring that it was square I heated the casting with the microflame until the solder melted allowing the casting to sink into place. - Repeated for the next casting (which I have to be honest and say I have no idea of the name or purpose of it).
At this point the Firebox, boiler and smoke box are all a nice tight push fit I won't make it more permanent until I am happy with everything.
Finally, I had fitted the cab roof on Tuesday but I still need to sort out the subframe under the floor.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Hi Mick,
I did have a length of piano wire through the handrail knobs to keep them all in line as I soldered them. The only other Dave Sharpe designed kit that I have built (GP Models LNER J63) didn't have such a feature but that said it didn't really need it either.
I did have a length of piano wire through the handrail knobs to keep them all in line as I soldered them. The only other Dave Sharpe designed kit that I have built (GP Models LNER J63) didn't have such a feature but that said it didn't really need it either.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Mind the Gap, the age old saying on the railways.
Mine was a little more fundamental as noted in my earlier query as to whether anyone else had, had the same issue with theirs.
Because I didn't have the benefit of the updated instructions that Mark kindly shared (I have emailed Dave to ask for a set of the updated instructions) I had previously added the cab front overlays and soldered all around the seams. This meant that tucking the front of the curved section up under the top layer of the cab front was not possible - I worked on the theory that if I tried to remove the thin overlay I would irreparably damage it.
That left the alternative which was cut/file the front section down so that it sits just below the footplate rather than tucked in behind the front plate and to desolder and file down the sub frames until the curve better matched that of the sides of the cab.
As you are looking at it, it took two goes at desoldering, filing down, before resoldering to test the fit for the left hand subframe and six goes for the right hand subframe. At each desoldering I carefully cleaned up before filing a little more off. You may wonder why I resoldered at each test, it was because I couldn't hold it in close enough proximity to accurately check the fit when trying to hold all the parts while they were
I have to say that had I continued with the build to this point when I started back in 2011 or so, I would never have had the confidence to desolder and resolder the same part so many times to get the fit that I wanted. I would never have been happy with it either.
The slight gap on the right hand in this view will close up when I solder it all in but I am triple checking all is right before taking the final step.
Mine was a little more fundamental as noted in my earlier query as to whether anyone else had, had the same issue with theirs.
Because I didn't have the benefit of the updated instructions that Mark kindly shared (I have emailed Dave to ask for a set of the updated instructions) I had previously added the cab front overlays and soldered all around the seams. This meant that tucking the front of the curved section up under the top layer of the cab front was not possible - I worked on the theory that if I tried to remove the thin overlay I would irreparably damage it.
That left the alternative which was cut/file the front section down so that it sits just below the footplate rather than tucked in behind the front plate and to desolder and file down the sub frames until the curve better matched that of the sides of the cab.
As you are looking at it, it took two goes at desoldering, filing down, before resoldering to test the fit for the left hand subframe and six goes for the right hand subframe. At each desoldering I carefully cleaned up before filing a little more off. You may wonder why I resoldered at each test, it was because I couldn't hold it in close enough proximity to accurately check the fit when trying to hold all the parts while they were
I have to say that had I continued with the build to this point when I started back in 2011 or so, I would never have had the confidence to desolder and resolder the same part so many times to get the fit that I wanted. I would never have been happy with it either.
The slight gap on the right hand in this view will close up when I solder it all in but I am triple checking all is right before taking the final step.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Further work over the weekend has seen it start to look like a loco at long last.
At the moment all except the cab, the reversing lever and it's housing are just sat in place and are held by the firm fit of the components. - The sand shields are just lent in place because I need to drill them yet for the sandbox fillers. I am slightly surprised that they don't have at least some semblance of a hole etched in them given how well everything else is portrayed.
I also need to drill and put a self tapper in the top of the cab face of the firebox to close up the very slight gap on the drivers side before I solder it in place. The instructions suggest doing this but I thought that I had got away without the need until I put everything in place.
At the moment all except the cab, the reversing lever and it's housing are just sat in place and are held by the firm fit of the components. - The sand shields are just lent in place because I need to drill them yet for the sandbox fillers. I am slightly surprised that they don't have at least some semblance of a hole etched in them given how well everything else is portrayed.
I also need to drill and put a self tapper in the top of the cab face of the firebox to close up the very slight gap on the drivers side before I solder it in place. The instructions suggest doing this but I thought that I had got away without the need until I put everything in place.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Rob, be careful when you add that self tapper as it might pull the cab out of square and the roof will look odd.
It may be better to find out why the firebox rear face isn't flush or better yet remove the rear cast on wrapper strap. Solder it all together even with the small gap and then add a new strap hard up against the cab face to give a nice joint and cover any gaps.
Bit of a faff but you won't run the risk of pulling the cab out of shape.
It may be better to find out why the firebox rear face isn't flush or better yet remove the rear cast on wrapper strap. Solder it all together even with the small gap and then add a new strap hard up against the cab face to give a nice joint and cover any gaps.
Bit of a faff but you won't run the risk of pulling the cab out of shape.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Thanks Mick,
The gap is very slight and I did plan to put a self tapper in both sides to ensure that it remains square but before I do that I will double check that there isn't any solder residue or other debris preventing it from fitting flush.
Plus I will keep your suggestion on replacing the wrapper strap as a backup in case that doesn't cure it and leave it square.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Warren (Haywood @warren haywood ) kindly dropped off my J79 on Tuesday evening having weaved his magic on the paint job. I need to glaze it add the backhead etc.
Having checked my reference books I also need to add the loco number the the front buffer beam - neither of us were certain it had one when Warren was doing it and I only checked after the event.
Having checked my reference books I also need to add the loco number the the front buffer beam - neither of us were certain it had one when Warren was doing it and I only checked after the event.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Returning to the 06, although there hasn't been much to photograph I have been beavering away adding all the details between the frames. sand boxes etc. It took four sessions of about 2 hours ech to get the main steam pipe with the grease trap fitted. Lots of tweaking and testing for fit but it's on now.
I have a question for those of you who have build the original version of this kit, the loco brake cylinder is a whitemetal casting on my version of the kit (I think in the revised kit's its now a brass casting). It's tucked away under the frames out of harms way and oridinarily I wouldn't think too much of it being white metal in similar circumstances. But in this instance the expectation is that you drill it out, tap it 6ba and use it to hold screw which forms the loco to tender drawbar.
My question is this, has this caused any issues for those with the whitemetal casting on their locos or would I be better to see if I can get a brass replacement from Dave Sharp? - Given the quality of the kit even before it's been upgraded my inclination id think that it will be fine but I thought it worth asking knowing that several members have built the kit before.
Many thanks in advance for any insight.
I have a question for those of you who have build the original version of this kit, the loco brake cylinder is a whitemetal casting on my version of the kit (I think in the revised kit's its now a brass casting). It's tucked away under the frames out of harms way and oridinarily I wouldn't think too much of it being white metal in similar circumstances. But in this instance the expectation is that you drill it out, tap it 6ba and use it to hold screw which forms the loco to tender drawbar.
My question is this, has this caused any issues for those with the whitemetal casting on their locos or would I be better to see if I can get a brass replacement from Dave Sharp? - Given the quality of the kit even before it's been upgraded my inclination id think that it will be fine but I thought it worth asking knowing that several members have built the kit before.
Many thanks in advance for any insight.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Further to my last post here are a couple of photos of progress to date. Recent minor surgery on my toe has left me struggling with the time/energy to give this the thought that it needs to get the motion assembled so I have been doing a few small jobs on the J6 until my energy returns
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Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Hi Graham,
I must confess that there were times during the fitting that there nearly wasn't an exhaust steam feed.... challenging doesn't start to cover it.
john lewsey
Western Thunderer
Nice work Rob
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
A few days off over Easter saw me make further progress on the 06.
Shaping the curves of the inner tender sides was interesting because in my ignorance I had chopped off one end of the etch which contained the marked etched bend lines and although I still had the piece that I removed I couldn't realistically realign it. So some careful measuring was in order.
I annealed the tops of the sides where the main bend was to be - I did this a couple of times during the process.
In order to bend the front curves of the tender sides which were very close to the half etched line for the location of the front bulkhead I soldered in a couple of strips of scrap to stop it bending on the half etched line instead of where I wanted it to.
Once happy I soldered in the rear bulkhead and started to add details.
Shaping the curves of the inner tender sides was interesting because in my ignorance I had chopped off one end of the etch which contained the marked etched bend lines and although I still had the piece that I removed I couldn't realistically realign it. So some careful measuring was in order.
I annealed the tops of the sides where the main bend was to be - I did this a couple of times during the process.
In order to bend the front curves of the tender sides which were very close to the half etched line for the location of the front bulkhead I soldered in a couple of strips of scrap to stop it bending on the half etched line instead of where I wanted it to.
Once happy I soldered in the rear bulkhead and started to add details.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Very neat execution of the raves 
.
.