7mm Steves work bench, project C1 The Ace Ivatt atlantic

[topshed34a]

Sorry for not responding sooner and I hope you haven't soldered too much together. Looking at several photos online I think the top of the firebox should be aligned with the top of the boiler rather than having a noticeable step at the joint. The prototype cladding would have only been about 1/8" thick so even if one sheet lapped over the other it would barely be visible. I think the step appearance is visible on some of the C1 models, presumably the same kit?

Your correct and since I took this photo I have moved the front plate flush with the front. Now the problem is that I have to solder the front to the lower parts of the boiler but the edges of the front need to be curved as does the wrapper, not only that but it also kick back slightly in sympathy with the firebox.

This looks better but now I have the tricky work of making the firebox front and the front of the wrapper into a nice gentle 90 degree curve.

 

[ianlbsc]

I have been following this as I would like to build a LB&SCR Atlantic one day and there is an Ace kit.
Are there as many differences in this area for the NER as there are for the Brighton? See accompanying photos of two very different finishes in this area. Hope this is of some use?

 

[topshed34a]

I have been following this as I would like to build a LB&SCR Atlantic one day and there is an Ace kit.
Are there as many differences in this area for the NER as there are for the Brighton? See accompanying photos of two very different finishes in this area. Hope this is of some use?View attachment 52486 View attachment 52487

Actually Marsh who design these was Ivatts right hand man at Doncaster until he went to the LBSCR, also drawings of the frames were dispatched to Brighton by the GNR for the LBSCR build so one could say the real locos in many ways are sister or cousins.
The chassis of both kits are the same to my understanding and the firebox shape looks the same if in deed of different dimension and shape.

I suppose unless you are that brilliant that you can scratch build then like me you use a kit and seeing as the only kit I know of is ACE then you need to simply bite the bullet so to speak.

The kit seems ok, I find some parts simply don't fit, ie the splasher fronts are overlays that solder to fold up splashers. but the folder up splashers are smaller and the tops are supposed to solder to the fold up splashers.
The tops are not long enough and if I did solder them on that way the overlays would be higher.
Well the overlays are the right size and so I am going to cut new splasher tops and solder to the overlays.


My biggest criticism is that the instructions are vague, sketchy and ambiguous.
A loco kit needs firstly good drawings not silly pencil sketches, it also needs all parts numbered and identifiable.
Sadly many kits are not like this and if you think about it engineers do drawings for technical people to build, not some form of vague written word.

The kit is can be built so all I can say is watch this space and hopefully you will learn from my mistakes

 

[Steph Dale]

I've seen the red lined drawings of the Marsh Atlantic and there are few differences, other than the cab.

I wonder if the Gladiator kit is better, but the Ace one is ex Modellers World and also had a good reputation.

Steph

 

[Isambarduk]

Only just caught up here and I am most impressed.

I would like to comment that I believe that you are tackling this kit with the correct approach. When building from a kit, I always treat the kit merely as an aid to scratch-building. I have found that some kits are a great aid, some are less so and many are just not any aid at all; it is usually the etchings that are the greatest aid (as they are such a time-saver of what I soon find tiresome work with a piercing saw) and good castings are a bonus but I always finish up making some parts even when building the best of kits.

I don't always get it right though: a long time ago, I ordered and bought unseen a kit from the erstwhile College Models where the only 'useful' parts were the nuts and screws!

David

 

[Susie]

Hi Steve,

I've been following your build with great interest - thank you for posting it.

With reference to your query about the saddle, according to the RCTS GNR Loco History Vol 3A , page 203, saddles started to be fitted from October 1916 and only when engines had piston-valve cylinders fitted as renewals. Many of those which had received these cylinders prior to 1916 had saddles fitted at a later date - but not all, while none of the engines which retained their balanced slide-valves had the original wrapper replaced with a saddle.

There are so many detail differences in the engines, depending on whether they were superheated or not, I think it best if you try to get hold of a photo of the one you want to represent. Have you any one in mind?

Best wishes,

Susie

 

[topshed34a]

Only just caught up here and I am most impressed.

I would like to comment that I believe that you are tackling this kit with the correct approach. When building from a kit, I always treat the kit merely as an aid to scratch-building. I have found that some kits are a great aid, some are less so and many are just not any aid at all; it is usually the etchings that are the greatest aid (as they are such a time-saver of what I soon find tiresome work with a piercing saw) and good castings are a bonus but I always finish up making some parts even when building the best of kits.

I don't always get it right though: a long time ago, I ordered and bought unseen a kit from the erstwhile College Models where the only 'useful' parts were the nuts and screws!

David

David that is really tragic thatth ed only useful bits were nuts and screws but I take your point.
My biggest issue now is getting the fiebox correct and marrying it with the boiler.
I actually find rhe instructions in this kit would make great bog paper.

Steve

 

[topshed34a]

Hi Steve,

I've been following your build with great interest - thank you for posting it.

With reference to your query about the saddle, according to the RCTS GNR Loco History Vol 3A , page 203, saddles started to be fitted from October 1916 and only when engines had piston-valve cylinders fitted as renewals. Many of those which had received these cylinders prior to 1916 had saddles fitted at a later date - but not all, while none of the engines which retained their balanced slide-valves had the original wrapper replaced with a saddle.

There are so many detail differences in the engines, depending on whether they were superheated or not, I think it best if you try to get hold of a photo of the one you want to represent. Have you any one in mind?

Best wishes,

Susie

Susie iwant to build no 251 as preserved.
At present im a bit stuck trying to get the firebox correct and joining it to the boiler.
The instructions are vague and a drawing with less written text is needed.

 

[Isambarduk]

"David that is really tragic that the only useful bits were nuts and screws but I take your point."

Not to worry, Steve, I sold the whole kit on without any difficulty. I lost a 'few bob' on it but I learnt a valuable lesson.

"I actually find the instructions in this kit would make great bog paper."

Quite a common finding, in my experience. Actually, I do usually glance through the instruction once to get the gist of the design but, after that, I use the kit of parts as a basis for scratch-building, for which there are never any instructions!

David

 

[topshed34a]

I'm with you on a good drawing, Finney the best for me.

The Clare Valley Shiraz may be best for me also, but yet to try it.

Ken

Taylor Clare Valley is a top drop and not expensive, you get bang for your buck

 

[topshed34a]

Well an update on the C1
It took a week of leaving the kit alone and pondering then it dawned on me today.
Sadly the kit instruction do not help whatsoever , but glad to say the kit does include a scale drawing that I used.
I really do no believe you should need to have a scale drawing to build a kit but there you are.

As you can see, something clearly wrong, unable to join the sides to the front even though the front is in the correct place
The second photo shows the verniers measuring the firebox length and also the firebox front below

Photo 3 shows the verniers on the actual firebox and note how the firebox is way to long by 2.2 mm

It is clear that if I file back to the score line and solder the front on, I will then be able to solder the front to the sides.
Just a pity no mention was made in the kit and how hard would it be to etch the firebox the correct length in the first place.
I am going to win with this kit. I know I am

Also I measured the three wash out plugs and at least the one at the front is not correct as it is right on my score line and when measuere it also should be further back towards the cab.

 

[Steph Dale]

Steve,
That's a good thought, I hope the drawing is correct!
You might just check the overall length of the firebox, boiler and smokebox as a unit before cutting anything.
Nice to see you progressing well.
Steph

 

[topshed34a]

Steve,
That's a good thought, I hope the drawing is correct!
You might just check the overall length of the firebox, boiler and smokebox as a unit before cutting anything.
Nice to see you progressing well.
Steph

Steve the point is the boiler is correct but when I put the firebox on the drawing it is longer than the last boiler band so the top half is ovelong.
This is ok but it would be nice to know that it needs trimming back

 

[topshed34a]

Well I wondered how to cut the firebox down neatly, tin snips would make a mess so I came up with a VERY CUNNING PLAN

I put the dremel in the vice vertically with a slitting disk and simply moved the firebox around and cut off the excess 2.2mm and it worked very well
Any attempt to hold the dremel was asking for trouble.

 

[simond]

I like the approach with the Dremel in the vice - an effective way of getting a clean cut at a known offset, and I'll bet it was quicker than fret sawing & filing a "not very rigid" assembly.

But perhaps a warning about safety glasses wouldn't go amiss - in a situation where it's possible to apply a side-force to the cutting disc, it can go ping very easily.

Best
Simon

 

[topshed34a]

Simon your right wear safety glasses, I have plastic lenses in my close up glasses so didnt bother.

The slitting workrd a treat, I know if I had held the dremel I would have messed it up.
Also it is important not to try and forceit, just nice and easy and the results were so smooth I had no need to file it down.
I am hoping to mount the boiler and firebox then I can cut the footplate away from the jig.

 

[topshed34a]

At last the elludium P33 space modulator, well not quite but the C1 fire box, I finally got it right, I cut off 2.2mm, the joints are done and the firebox is correct length.
I am pretty pleased with my self because the next stage is to solder the boiler to the firebox. I have decided to firstly add a nut and bolt to it then solder it up nice and solid.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

Perseverance always pays off!
I think I would have preferred to wrestle with an alligator than build this kit
Well done

 

[Susie]

Steve, One thing that has just occured to me, now that you have cut the firebox cleading down. On the full size job, the firebox extends well back into the cab. Are you sure the front cab plate just butts onto the etched cleading, and doesn't have a cutout for the firebox to sit into?

Susie

 

[topshed34a]

Steve, One thing that has just occured to me, now that you have cut the firebox cleading down. On the full size job, the firebox extends well back into the cab. Are you sure the front cab plate just butts onto the etched cleading, and doesn't have a cutout for the firebox to sit into?

Susie

I havent cut the cab end of the fiebox, only the boiler end