The A5
- Thread starter Martin Shaw
- Start date
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
It hasn't stopped raining all afternoon, so the ascent to the workshop was justified. Here's what you get for your 60 quid.
A pair of frames, joggled behind the rear drivers, square bearings for the pony axle that fit into the slotted frames with retainers screwed to the inside of the frames. A neat bogie assembly with downward and side control springs, frame spacers, axle bearings and side rods.
One immediate issue, the frames are 278mm long, the internal clearance between the buffer planks is 274mm, so I'm going to have to lose 4mm which I think I'll have from the front. Looking at photos the front bogie wheel is not too far back from the buffers and I discovered the A5/1s were 4 1/2" shorter than the A5/2 so I think it will look alright. The frame spacers do not match up with the body fixing locations, since I didn't specify this I can't moan, but some alternative arrangements will be needed, especially at the front where the bogie pivot mounting will completely obscure the fixing point. At my request holes for plumgers were omitted, so pick ups will be wipers as per Dikitriki's L&Y A class. Hope you don't mind me pinching your idea?
The axle to mount the motor pretty much comes down to the front one, in the middle the final drive gear fouls the spacer, or vice versa if you wish, but I'll have another look at the rear one when I can dummy assemble it all. Best go and find the saw.
Especially for Mr Pulham, does this look like a model of a real wagon? It scales at 47' over headstocks, but Tatlow has nothing that looks like it.
Regards
Martin
A pair of frames, joggled behind the rear drivers, square bearings for the pony axle that fit into the slotted frames with retainers screwed to the inside of the frames. A neat bogie assembly with downward and side control springs, frame spacers, axle bearings and side rods.
One immediate issue, the frames are 278mm long, the internal clearance between the buffer planks is 274mm, so I'm going to have to lose 4mm which I think I'll have from the front. Looking at photos the front bogie wheel is not too far back from the buffers and I discovered the A5/1s were 4 1/2" shorter than the A5/2 so I think it will look alright. The frame spacers do not match up with the body fixing locations, since I didn't specify this I can't moan, but some alternative arrangements will be needed, especially at the front where the bogie pivot mounting will completely obscure the fixing point. At my request holes for plumgers were omitted, so pick ups will be wipers as per Dikitriki's L&Y A class. Hope you don't mind me pinching your idea?
The axle to mount the motor pretty much comes down to the front one, in the middle the final drive gear fouls the spacer, or vice versa if you wish, but I'll have another look at the rear one when I can dummy assemble it all. Best go and find the saw.
Especially for Mr Pulham, does this look like a model of a real wagon? It scales at 47' over headstocks, but Tatlow has nothing that looks like it.
Regards
Martin
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Hi Martin,
I will consult my tombs over the weekend and report back.
I will consult my tombs over the weekend and report back.
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Hi Martin,
I will consult my tombs over the weekend and report back.
Blimey, railway research as a near - death experience? You're a braver man than I, Rob!
Steph
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
Rob
Thanks very much.
Martin
Thanks very much.
Martin
Dikitriki
Flying Squad
Hello Martin,
I certainly don't mind you or anyone else pinching any ideas. The pick ups work very well when you have a traditional milled chassis with quite a gap between the frame and the back of the tyre. Not so easy where you are dealing with an etched frame closer to prototype width.
Richard
I certainly don't mind you or anyone else pinching any ideas. The pick ups work very well when you have a traditional milled chassis with quite a gap between the frame and the back of the tyre. Not so easy where you are dealing with an etched frame closer to prototype width.
Richard
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Hi Martin,
I think that I might have the vehicle that your's is supposed to represent and I can perhaps see why it's liveried NE and why you didn't find it in Tatlow.
I recalled seeing something similar in Essery's LMS Wagons (Volume Two) and I was right although I had to search both volumes to find it - I think that it's an LMS 40 ton bogie trolley (Plate 76, page 67) that was coded Weltrol MJ by BR.
I think that the livery confusion might be because on the previous couple of pages there are details of a slightly different 40 ton bogie trolley which the LMS built in 1938 for the LNER and which the LNER called Trestrol A
It's quite possible the at the LMS built one or more Weltrol MJ's for the LNER too, and that might explain the NE livery but Essery doesn't mention it. - It's also worth noting that the LNER Livery on the Trestrol A's was not abbreviated to NE but used the full London & North Eastern Railway
I think that I might have the vehicle that your's is supposed to represent and I can perhaps see why it's liveried NE and why you didn't find it in Tatlow.
I recalled seeing something similar in Essery's LMS Wagons (Volume Two) and I was right although I had to search both volumes to find it - I think that it's an LMS 40 ton bogie trolley (Plate 76, page 67) that was coded Weltrol MJ by BR.
I think that the livery confusion might be because on the previous couple of pages there are details of a slightly different 40 ton bogie trolley which the LMS built in 1938 for the LNER and which the LNER called Trestrol A
It's quite possible the at the LMS built one or more Weltrol MJ's for the LNER too, and that might explain the NE livery but Essery doesn't mention it. - It's also worth noting that the LNER Livery on the Trestrol A's was not abbreviated to NE but used the full London & North Eastern Railway
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
Hi Rob
Many thanks for giving up your time to look this up for me. I much appreciate it. I suppose I'll have to repaint it now, my most hated task. I will ponder on this. Some coincidence since I happened to call into Shildon yesterday. The big train set was most entertaining.
Regards
Martin
Many thanks for giving up your time to look this up for me. I much appreciate it. I suppose I'll have to repaint it now, my most hated task. I will ponder on this. Some coincidence since I happened to call into Shildon yesterday. The big train set was most entertaining.
Regards
Martin
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Hi Martin,
It's a small world, are you local to Shildon or had you travelled? I ask because most weekends I am about 3 miles away in Bishop Auckland.
It's a small world, are you local to Shildon or had you travelled? I ask because most weekends I am about 3 miles away in Bishop Auckland.
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
Rob
I was on my way from home to Norwich and rather than go straight on at Bowes, I thought to go via B Castle and Bishop Auckland, since that was where my late friend, he of the A5, was born. I then realised Shildon was close by. Rather worth the detour I think. I was rather taken with the nameplates in Morrisons.
Regards
Martin
I was on my way from home to Norwich and rather than go straight on at Bowes, I thought to go via B Castle and Bishop Auckland, since that was where my late friend, he of the A5, was born. I then realised Shildon was close by. Rather worth the detour I think. I was rather taken with the nameplates in Morrisons.
Regards
Martin
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Hi Martin,
Quite a journey then, I hadn't picked up on there being nameplates in Morrisons, is that the one in Shildon or Bishop Auckland?
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
Hi Rob
Back home now, left Norwich at 7am this morning, came through the front door at 3pm. For some reason the roads were pretty empty, however I wish to nominate the A47/A17 from Norwich to Newark as the trunk road most unsuited for it's purpose. 2 1/2 hours for a 100 miles, by contrast the next 100 miles took 1 1/2 hours. 830 miles in two days is a bit too much nowadays. The Morrisons you require is the one in BA, if you enter the front door from the railway station direction, "The Great Marquess" is just above eye level, there are more further round, the only one of which I remember is "Raby Castle", I think they were all LNER names.
Regards
Martin
Back home now, left Norwich at 7am this morning, came through the front door at 3pm. For some reason the roads were pretty empty, however I wish to nominate the A47/A17 from Norwich to Newark as the trunk road most unsuited for it's purpose. 2 1/2 hours for a 100 miles, by contrast the next 100 miles took 1 1/2 hours. 830 miles in two days is a bit too much nowadays. The Morrisons you require is the one in BA, if you enter the front door from the railway station direction, "The Great Marquess" is just above eye level, there are more further round, the only one of which I remember is "Raby Castle", I think they were all LNER names.
Regards
Martin
FiftyFourA
Western Thunderer
While on the subject of Morrisons 
, if anyone calls in at their Darlington store (built on the sit eof the old Works) there are quite a few large pictures of the inside of the works on the walls near the loos, one in particular showing lines of NER locos (minus tenders) in the errecting shop.
There are of course other supermarkets ....
Peter
, if anyone calls in at their Darlington store (built on the sit eof the old Works) there are quite a few large pictures of the inside of the works on the walls near the loos, one in particular showing lines of NER locos (minus tenders) in the errecting shop.There are of course other supermarkets ....
Peter
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
There are of course other works , for example:- Bow
Ian G
Western Thunderer
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
Well progress has been slow approaching glacial, for a number of reasons. Last week involved substituting various bits of hi fi into different rooms. My father has given me his equipment including a pair of KEF reference speakers, which at nearly a metre tall push out some serious welly. Standard 4's going up Talerdigg was as near to the real thing as you would want. The suspended floor is really quite flexible.
The other major buggeration is trying to purchase a bench drill press that has even the vaguest approach to quality. I ordered a Record, a reasonable make I thought. When it arrived and was unpacked, the machinist tasked with milling the base decided to have an extra swipe through the edge flange. This wouldn't have affected the functionality however the discount for this lack of quality control was inadequate so I returned it. I then tried today with another retailer. The display machine looked ok but my purchase has a major flaw in the base where daylight instead of cast iron is present, and the casting quality of the table is utterly abysmal. So tomorrow it's going back as well. I also realised it was essentially the Nu-Tool machine, which wasn't all that good 20 years ago. Can anyone suggest a decent quality machine, that won't break the bank? I have seen the Proxxon, which is no doubt a good product, but I need something with greater capacity for my other activities.
This is the rear frame spacer which is obviously missing the body mounting
The bit top left was the answer, a bit of bar faced off to the right length and soldered to the spacer and drilled to suit. The bottom frame shows the pony axlebox arrangement. Unfortunately the frame drilling was off and cocking the retainer stopped the axlebox vertical movement so I plugged the frame and positioned for re drilling. The top frame shows the plugged hole, well it doesn't really because unusually I seem to have done a fair job.
Regards
Martin
The other major buggeration is trying to purchase a bench drill press that has even the vaguest approach to quality. I ordered a Record, a reasonable make I thought. When it arrived and was unpacked, the machinist tasked with milling the base decided to have an extra swipe through the edge flange. This wouldn't have affected the functionality however the discount for this lack of quality control was inadequate so I returned it. I then tried today with another retailer. The display machine looked ok but my purchase has a major flaw in the base where daylight instead of cast iron is present, and the casting quality of the table is utterly abysmal. So tomorrow it's going back as well. I also realised it was essentially the Nu-Tool machine, which wasn't all that good 20 years ago. Can anyone suggest a decent quality machine, that won't break the bank? I have seen the Proxxon, which is no doubt a good product, but I need something with greater capacity for my other activities.
This is the rear frame spacer which is obviously missing the body mounting
The bit top left was the answer, a bit of bar faced off to the right length and soldered to the spacer and drilled to suit. The bottom frame shows the pony axlebox arrangement. Unfortunately the frame drilling was off and cocking the retainer stopped the axlebox vertical movement so I plugged the frame and positioned for re drilling. The top frame shows the plugged hole, well it doesn't really because unusually I seem to have done a fair job.
Regards
Martin
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
After much doodling about the ether I have sadly arrived at the conclusion that a decent quality drill press at a reasonable price is not available. It appears that all the budget machines are thrown together in the same (probably Chinese) factory with no regard for quality of materials or build. There are at least four machines in the £100 bracket that are identical, with different branding, and no doubt equally horrible. More for a laugh I rang Meddings in Devon, almost unheard of, a British machine tool manufacturer. Their entry level bench machine, which would suit me fine, comes along for the bank manager worrying sum of £1400. It is beautifully made and undoubtedly worth it's price, but I can't justify that amount, nor afford it truth be told, for a hobby drill.
The way forward was in hindsight obvious, the acquisition of a milling machine brings with it the ability to drill holes. It's not ideal but I'm not running a production line so I can live with the small compromise. To this end and raise funds there will be some choice items, I hope, in the small ads later on. What a depressing day confronted with the almost complete failure of British engineering manufacturing, and on a political note I don't see Brexit fixing this.
Regards
Martin
The way forward was in hindsight obvious, the acquisition of a milling machine brings with it the ability to drill holes. It's not ideal but I'm not running a production line so I can live with the small compromise. To this end and raise funds there will be some choice items, I hope, in the small ads later on. What a depressing day confronted with the almost complete failure of British engineering manufacturing, and on a political note I don't see Brexit fixing this.
Regards
Martin
adrian
Flying Squad
I would agree that a "new" good quality machine is probably outside the price range of most hobbyists, they have been priced out of the market by all the cheap imports. However I would disagree that a quality machine cannot be obtained for a reasonable price but you have to be willing to accept a secondhand machine. I would thoroughly recommend looking for good quality secondhand machines in preference to new machines.
I thought Meddings was a fairly well known make I've certainly heard of them and used their machines. So for example here is a Meddings floor standing drill for £150
Advert - For Sale - Meddings Pillar Drill
or a Meddings bench drill currently at £79
Bench Pillar Drill | eBay
For what it's worth I have a Jones & Shipman bench drill very similar to this
bench drill | eBay
current bid of £35 is an absolute steal and a top quality bit of kit.
Not sure of the heritage of this one but looks interesting and at £25 certainly worth a punt.
Multico Bench Pillar Drill | eBay
One final one - a Fobco - current bid £27.
Pedastool Drill Bench Top Drill | eBay
The good thing with the secondhand machines is that if it doesn't suit you then you can probably bung it on ebay and get back what you paid for it.
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
The baby Proxxon drill press is surprisingly good and might be worth evaluating. I have one and am not entirely sure how I managed before I bought it.
Proxxon TBM220 is what you're looking for. German eBay or Hobby's catalogue seem to be the most cost-effective sources.
Steph
Proxxon TBM220 is what you're looking for. German eBay or Hobby's catalogue seem to be the most cost-effective sources.
Steph
simond
Western Thunderer
Don't make the mistake I did, of trying to use the Proxxon TBM220 as a mill, with the optional x-y table. It will function, but if you get ambitious, as I did, you'll wish you hadn't, as I did. As a drill, it's great, but obviously isn't going to bang 13mm drills through feet of mild steel.
I would also mention Tony Griffiths, who sells second hand machine tools - I've had great help and good deals there in the past. Lathes Usual disclaimers of course.
Best
Simon
I would also mention Tony Griffiths, who sells second hand machine tools - I've had great help and good deals there in the past. Lathes Usual disclaimers of course.
Best
Simon