7mm US model dabblings

[mickoo]

Check your type of handrail before you buy, there are two types, the earlier GP7 carry over type with a round pole and clamp for the rail on top.

The later type is as seen today, a rolled steel channel with rolled over strap at the top to hold the rail.

SP had both types, DRGW certainly had the early type, some later engines might have had the later type.

 

[mickoo]

Richard, JB, Et al,

I've generated a new thread,

Red Caboose GP9 kits - ALL builders/Models/Info/References welcome

I'll start a new thread here as several people are embarking on building these kits and it'll keep all the resources and notes in one place. I've got several of these kits and plan quite a few variants, all of mine will run on the donor Atlas/Roco F9 model which is what the GP-9 is based...

www.westernthunder.co.uk

specifically for Red Caboose GP-9's, that way all the details that are going to come out in these projects will all be in one focal place, otherwise all my up coming stuff will get lost and mixed up in here.

I'm actually thinking of a new US thread just for my stuff, this one has become a more generic one over the years, nothing wrong with that but it's grown in interest and input which is great and I don't think we should loose that if we can.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

It is all the chassis parts, I did get a milled brass chassis at Des Plaines hobbies but I need the trucks and motor.
There are a few detailing parts too, that I would like as I want mine to be a Southern Pacific one, but I did come across this one in August 2019 in Mcminville, about 25 miles south of Portland Oregon

Welcome to SP GP9s....

As @mickoo has pointed out there are three phases of SP, SSW and T&NO GP9s and I would find photos of the one you want to portray as there are many visible detail differences between what is ostensibly the same loco - such as fuel filler location, louver (louvre) size and location, headlight packages, sub-base battery box covers and sizes, side skirts - the list is endless.

Not forgetting the passenger 'Torpedo' GP9s with their air tanks mounted on the long hood - hence no dynamic brakes and a larger fuel tank (which I think was split between water for train heating and fuel).



Most SP including ex SSW and T&NO GP9s went through various rebuilds during their lives and some phase III units ended up with Phase II fan arrangements and vice-versa.

Even my ex SSW (3809) and T&NO (3314) units already show detail differences (the SSW unit was a Ph III unit which ended up with a Ph II 36-36-48-36-36 fan arrangement replacing the 48-48-48 Ph III fan arrangement during a SP rebuild).

I think you can get decals for the nose stripes.

Only for cab units E, F & FT (Microscale 48-44) - not hood units.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Richard, JB, Et al,

I've generated a new thread,

Red Caboose GP9 kits - ALL builders/Models/Info/References welcome

I'll start a new thread here as several people are embarking on building these kits and it'll keep all the resources and notes in one place. I've got several of these kits and plan quite a few variants, all of mine will run on the donor Atlas/Roco F9 model which is what the GP-9 is based...

www.westernthunder.co.uk

specifically for Red Caboose GP-9's, that way all the details that are going to come out in these projects will all be in one focal place, otherwise all my up coming stuff will get lost and mixed up in here.

I'm actually thinking of a new US thread just for my stuff, this one has become a more generic one over the years, nothing wrong with that but it's grown in interest and input which is great and I don't think we should loose that if we can.

No problem, I'll chuck any of my GP9 stuff there...

 

[mickoo]

No problem, I'll chuck any of my GP9 stuff there...

Brilliant, you've already done so much work on the RC GP9's so it'd be really good to get it all into one focal place.

 

[JasonD]

Sunset SP 2-8-2?

Got any images, might be interested in that?

Still waiting for info on those Atlas 2R six pack wheels mate

Quick pic Mick, it's a UP version, not what the Sunset box label supposes. On overdue inspection the tender trucks are Weaver r/b frt car trucks fitted with P48 wheels. Started to swap them for a spare pair of Sunset west coast tender trucks:

 

[mickoo]

Drat! Already got one of them, a second would be nice if it were the other number, 2256 I think.

I'm not sure if 3rd rail did a SP MK class, more than likely but finding one (if they even did) is a hard task, as is any decent SP steam.

 

[JasonD]

Bell and sand-dome. OK, and the stack. Well you have to make sure you take the right one home.

http://www.3rdrail.com/mk.htm

Jason

 

[Big Train James]

Looks like Glacier Park Models did the mk-4.

 

[Big Train James]

Question for the group regarding the Joseph Strapac books, as they have recently come up in conversation several times. I'm looking for some very specific information on SP sw1500 switchers. One of the Strapac SP Historic Diesels volumes (Vol. 16) focuses on SP EMD switchers. What I'd like to know, is how in-depth do the books tend to go? The two types of things I'm most interested in are cab equipment specifications and underframe details and appliances, and photos or information about both of these areas are typically hard to come by. For a more specific example of the type of thing I'm looking for, at some point late in their lives (2000 ish?) many if not all SP switchers appear to have been outfitted with waste oil retention tanks. Since I seem to be trending toward an era between 1995-2000, I would like to know whether I should add this tank. And if I do need to add it, can I find information about the tank and associated piping?

I know it's a pretty granular detail, but that level of accuracy is interesting to me. I have the capability to make my own very specific parts if necessary, through cad and 3d printing, and even some old fashioned modeling as well. I've grown to understand that I can't achieve every last thing with a model, but if something is manageable I'd like to give it a shot.

My problem is that Volume 16 appears to be one of the rarer examples in the series. I see two copies available on Amazon, for $185 per each! Why couldn't it be one of the other volumes, the ones that go for $30 or $40 instead? I'm ultimately willing to buy the book, but I won't do it unless I know it has the information I need. Not for that kind of money. So can anybody give me a sense of what to expect from these books?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[mickoo]

Question for the group regarding the Joseph Strapac books, as they have recently come up in conversation several times. I'm looking for some very specific information on SP sw1500 switchers. One of the Strapac SP Historic Diesels volumes (Vol. 16) focuses on SP EMD switchers. What I'd like to know, is how in-depth do the books tend to go? The two types of things I'm most interested in are cab equipment specifications and underframe details and appliances, and photos or information about both of these areas are typically hard to come by. For a more specific example of the type of thing I'm looking for, at some point late in their lives (2000 ish?) many if not all SP switchers appear to have been outfitted with waste oil retention tanks. Since I seem to be trending toward an era between 1995-2000, I would like to know whether I should add this tank. And if I do need to add it, can I find information about the tank and associated piping?

I know it's a pretty granular detail, but that level of accuracy is interesting to me. I have the capability to make my own very specific parts if necessary, through cad and 3d printing, and even some old fashioned modeling as well. I've grown to understand that I can't achieve every last thing with a model, but if something is manageable I'd like to give it a shot.

My problem is that Volume 16 appears to be one of the rarer examples in the series. I see two copies available on Amazon, for $185 per each! Why couldn't it be one of the other volumes, the ones that go for $30 or $40 instead? I'm ultimately willing to buy the book, but I won't do it unless I know it has the information I need. Not for that kind of money. So can anybody give me a sense of what to expect from these books?

Thanks,
Jim

I have a copy of that volume here, I didn't pay those silly prices either

I actually got lucky and put a big bid in for a guy who was selling a job lot, think it was $150 for a dozen or more volumes, there were duplicates for a the few I already had (kept the best copy, sold the other on) but the lot included some of the rarer ones as well, specifically the hydraulics, which individually go for that sort price alone, the rest were in reality, just a bonus

The volumes tend not to go into that sort of minute detail, certainly not photo wise, all the photos are overall views, roster shots or closer views of working trains, the detail is in the image text, so you have to 'read' all of the photo notes and information to get what you need.

The 1500's cover 30 pages so I'll set aside some time this evening to read through all the notes and see if there is any information that'll help, I'll also do some rough phone grab shots ( I never break glued book spines to scan, if I really need to scan something I'll try and buy a second copy at a much cheaper price and trash it afterward) of select pages so you can get a feel of what's inside the books.

I'm sure there is a Diesel Era volume that details SP 1500's, I'll dig that out, it look for it anyway, if there's any info there I can scan that, no issue scanning cheaper magazines like this with stapled spines (bound spines are also reasonably save to scan depending on their binding strength).

 

[mickoo]

Bell and sand-dome. OK, and the stack. Well you have to make sure you take the right one home.

http://www.3rdrail.com/mk.htm

Jason

Well found, I never seem to have much luck finding what 3rd Rail used to sell.

 

[Big Train James]

Mick,
I've got the Withers sw1500 book. I've always presumed it was an aggregation of information and photos from the individual Diesel Era issues. But then I've never actually looked at any of the Diesel Era mags for the sw1500's, so I don't actually know if they contain different information. The Withers book is much like the Strapac book in terms of photos, all broad side or 3/4 general views, with no tight shots. Text is largely limited to a breakdown of when the various orders of units came onto the system, and a focus on the light packages. The lights always seem to be a big deal, which is understandable given their status as an iconic characteristic of SP locos.

While I'm interested in quite a few details, I can say that there is a picture in the book showing a unit with a waste oil tank added, dated 1998. That's the earliest date that I've seen so far. There is another photo dated 2004 indicating a different style of tank, so even though I'm getting a sense of the dates, the style adds another variable. Separately, there are no cab interior shots anywhere in the book.

I'm going to ask around on another forum. I know there are some dedicated SP modelers there who might have info. I'm not on facebook, so I can't ask there on the SP group. I used to be on facebook, and I joined the SP group and asked questions, and got no answers anyway, so I may not be missing anything.

Anyway, appreciate the willingness to distract yourself and dig through your info.
Jim

Edit - I'm specifically interested in units in the second to last SP order, 2613-2679, or the last order, 2680-2689. These units have frame and hood details that match those found on the Atlas model that is the basis for my project. That being said, in the absence of unit appropriate data, I will either go with nothing or the best approximation based on other SP practice. In short, any information will be appreciated.

 

[PhilH]

​

Jim this doesn't help with your query unfortunately, but it may be of interest. I photographed SP 2689 the last in the last batch of SP SW1500s at San Jose in August 1978. Apparently it later became UP 1233 and there is a photo on the web of it in UP Armour Yellow at Denver in July 1997.

 

[Rob R]

Question for the group regarding the Joseph Strapac books, as they have recently come up in conversation several times. I'm looking for some very specific information on SP sw1500 switchers. One of the Strapac SP Historic Diesels volumes (Vol. 16) focuses on SP EMD switchers. What I'd like to know, is how in-depth do the books tend to go? The two types of things I'm most interested in are cab equipment specifications and underframe details and appliances, and photos or information about both of these areas are typically hard to come by. For a more specific example of the type of thing I'm looking for, at some point late in their lives (2000 ish?) many if not all SP switchers appear to have been outfitted with waste oil retention tanks. Since I seem to be trending toward an era between 1995-2000, I would like to know whether I should add this tank. And if I do need to add it, can I find information about the tank and associated piping?

I know it's a pretty granular detail, but that level of accuracy is interesting to me. I have the capability to make my own very specific parts if necessary, through cad and 3d printing, and even some old fashioned modeling as well. I've grown to understand that I can't achieve every last thing with a model, but if something is manageable I'd like to give it a shot.

My problem is that Volume 16 appears to be one of the rarer examples in the series. I see two copies available on Amazon, for $185 per each! Why couldn't it be one of the other volumes, the ones that go for $30 or $40 instead? I'm ultimately willing to buy the book, but I won't do it unless I know it has the information I need. Not for that kind of money. So can anybody give me a sense of what to expect from these books?

Thanks,
Jim

James,
Have you seen the WPR SW1500 Operators Manual?

 

[PhilH]

Phil, please let us know what 'coating' works for you. I had an 'ooooooooh ... so that's what you can do' couple of minutes with the physical methods (random Google find):
Chrome Plating: Must Know Facts and Ways to Remove Chrome Plating
The Sunset/3rd Rail D&H Challenger doesn't have boy-racer chrome coupling rods (nickel-silver?) - acceptable on the mantel-piece.
Jason

If I may digress slightly and go back to a subject brought up about 7 pages back - too shiny "chrome plated" rods and valve gear on some brass locos.
The UP 0-6-0 pictured in post #1,802 is now in bits - well the chassis at least - and I've had a go at toning down the rods and valve gear.

The connecting rod as original



​

The connecting rod after grit blasting. This has taken the shine off to a dull finish so some improvement, but it still doesn't look like steel. Also its too easy to go through the plating and expose the pinkish layer underneath on some of the corners.

After treating with Humbrol Metalcote Polished Steel aerosol (bottom), the original is at top.
Between is a mild steel blank coupling rod from another project.



​

Its difficult to get a true comparison in a photo because the shine is slightly different in each one. However I think I'll go with the Metalcote and the grit blasting should help it to stick, but it needs slightly more careful polishing as I've exposed some of the pink colour on the corners. Also I might try a coat of Dullcote to take the shine off, not too sure about that, maybe just some weathering when its all back on the chassis.

 

[mickoo]

James, regarding vol 16, there's surprisingly very little technical detail on the SW1500, actually nothing I would place any value on, there are no close up shots, nor cab shots, most of the photos are earlier SP era 70-80's sort of stuff and only two I could see from 1997. I think most photos are aimed at pure SP era though out the whole Strathpac series so finding stuff post 96 might be a struggle.

UP took over in 1996 so you might find more info on the UP side with patched or un patched SW1500. Only 179 went to UP, of those, 63 never got new UP numbers but may have been patched anyway.

None of the photos showed any form of retention tank and all the photos are very much like what you'd find in Diesel era, they're nice pictures showing the type of work SW1500 did during SP days but not technically orientated. There has been a few detailed walk arounds in Diesel era, mind the pictures are often so small as to be next to useless for detail viewing; they're usually more newer classes like AC44, SD70M etc but nothing like that in Strathpac I'm afraid.

I think you're right on the Diesel era books, they appear to be a simple collection of all the articles from the magazines in one book per type of engine. I had a look at the new GP30 book and compared the SP/SSW section and it was pretty much the same as the magazines as far as I remember; there may be the odd new photo and I haven't checked the text verbatim. I'd say there'd be no need to chase down the magazine articles if you have the book is my basic understanding, but I can do a detailed cross reference if you want. I've got the GP30, GP20/SD24 and both Alco volumes if you want me to cross check.

 

[Big Train James]

Phil,
You are right, your photo doesn't answer the underframe or cab questions, but all is not lost. It does identify the radiator core arrangement for me, and even better, I think I can tell which type of short core section is used. It also shows the arrangement of the the horizontal rib on the medium core section, and the position of the core fixturing. A lot of people get excited about the SP light packages, but for some reason I find it as interesting. I much prefer the later aesthetic, after the gyralights have been removed and the openings plated over. Which is good, because that also fits with the era I'm pursuing.

Rob,
I don't think I've ever looked at the WP handbook specifically, but I have looked at other EMD operating manuals. Unfortunately, the manuals tend to be geared toward how to operate the locos, rather than the technical aspects of the parts. Nonetheless, I learned a few things reading through the manual, in particular the idea that these switchers could be equipped with dual control stands. That may explain the large central cabinet I've seen in some cab photos, which I could never figure out before. Most interiors that I've seen photos for feature rather spartan control stands and accommodations.

Mick,
That's a good point about the Strapac book focusing on the pre-UP time period. Although much of what I'm after concerns as-built features, with the waste oil retention tank being an exception. It's all a moot point though if the book doesn't include technical or detail oriented data. I wouldn't bother looking up the individual Diesel Era issues, I doubt you will find anything that goes beyond what we've already discussed.

One of the things I'd like to find is information on the disposition of SP units after they've been sold off. I've already gone through all the SP switcher photos on several of the usual photo sites, and also a good number of UP photos as well. If I could figure out where units landed, I might be able to find other photos.

What I really need is for a place like Illinois Railway Museum, or something even closer, to get one of these locos in their collection. I'm not counting on that happening.

 

[Rob R]

All this talk of SW1500's has prompted me to progress the S version a little.
Reworked from here:- 1:32 SW1500 but still very much a work in progress.
Hood fresh of the printer:-

Rob

 

[Rob R]

That one is already destined for the bin.
For my chosen victim I need to re-work the panels etc and the other side is even further out

Image from The Frisco Archive.
Dive in. It's all good stuff.
Try these guys as well Frisco.org

Rob