Dog Star
Western Thunderer
So who is going to donate some S7 wheels to Rob as an incentive to have something to run on the WMR?
regards, Graham
7mmMick's Wagon Workbench - A BV for Love Lane + 3 for me
- Thread starter 7mmMick
- Start date
So who is going to donate some S7 wheels to Rob as an incentive to have something to run on the WMR?
regards, Graham
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Mick I now have all the bit's for the Slaters Open. I recall that initially you added the MMP interior after assembly and stuck it to some thin plasticard. Did you add it before assembly on the latest one?
I managed to make a mess of my order from MMP, ending up with a steel open instead of the wooden one that I expected....
Still unlike the EMKDE pipe wagon, it does still fit in my modelling era so I don't need to ask David if he will change it.
I managed to make a mess of my order from MMP, ending up with a steel open instead of the wooden one that I expected....
Still unlike the EMKDE pipe wagon, it does still fit in my modelling era so I don't need to ask David if he will change it.
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
Mick I now have all the bit's for the Slaters Open. I recall that initially you added the MMP interior after assembly and stuck it to some thin plasticard. Did you add it before assembly on the latest one?
I managed to make a mess of my order from MMP, ending up with a steel open instead of the wooden one that I expected....
The best thing to do is to put the Slaters body together first and then remove the MMP sides and ends and punch out the detail. Then individually offer them up inside the body. Some adjustment maybe needed, but this should only be minor. Best to do this with some wet and dry flat on the bench as the etches are quite fragile. Once the sides and ends all fit fix them to the 10 thou platikard. Once they are dry and the body is dry, best to wait a couple of days, then fit the sides to the body. I hope this helps, any probs just post or give me a bell,
ATB Mick
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Thanks Mick
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
For lots of reasons I've been away from the bench for the majority of the year and with spending so long away the modelling mojo certainly disappeared for some time. Along with work and family life here's the main reason for having very little spare time;
We've turned these
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.8...!1e1!3m2!1saRKU2_CJarlq53ZsWnz4zg!2e0!6m1!1e1
Into this
No, not just new windows and doors, the full works. When we bought them they had no heating or hot water and hadn't been updated since the 60's. And now onto this;
Lot's and lots of work but this will help fund the shed for Holderness Drain and the stock I will need to run on it. Oh and all the other important things in life, if anyone sees the wife don't mention this bit to her
Anyway after this little lot we've been on holiday in Cornwall for a couple of weeks and I took the chance to re kindle my mojo. After a visit to the Bodmin and Wentford Railway and the South Devon Railway I was getting back to form. Luckily the station at Buckfastleigh has a great model shop and I was able to pick up some evergreen supplies. And so back to the modelling.........
In case I had time I'd taken my tools and some drawings that were kindly supplied by Mike Osbourne. Incidentally Mike is the reason I wanted to start scratch building my own wagons and as previously mentioned elsewhere his MRJ articles and spending time with him on the S7 stand over the past few years has inspired me to make a start. The eventual plan is to make some as masters to have then resin cast and that way the stock I need could be born relatively cheaply. So I made a start, taking one of Mike's bodies he did for JLTRT with me as motivation;
I picked a few of these up as seconds from the JLTRT stand last Telford as they were damaged in places. Nothing I can't sort. This one had a damaged top plank, hence the London Pattern top plank above the doors. So I made a start scribing out the floor, using 60thou plastikard. Then I added the headstocks from Evergreen material
Using the John Hayes Book, the 4mm Coal Wagon, I followed his build process and next added sole bars and side rails. The headstocks and side rails were left over length so they could be filed back flush when dry,
I also cut out the bottom doors so they could be added later, thinking this would be easier than scribing in different directions. In reality this doesn't seems to be the case, so I attempted another one.
We've turned these
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.8...!1e1!3m2!1saRKU2_CJarlq53ZsWnz4zg!2e0!6m1!1e1
Into this
No, not just new windows and doors, the full works. When we bought them they had no heating or hot water and hadn't been updated since the 60's. And now onto this;
Lot's and lots of work but this will help fund the shed for Holderness Drain and the stock I will need to run on it. Oh and all the other important things in life, if anyone sees the wife don't mention this bit to her
Anyway after this little lot we've been on holiday in Cornwall for a couple of weeks and I took the chance to re kindle my mojo. After a visit to the Bodmin and Wentford Railway and the South Devon Railway I was getting back to form. Luckily the station at Buckfastleigh has a great model shop and I was able to pick up some evergreen supplies. And so back to the modelling.........
In case I had time I'd taken my tools and some drawings that were kindly supplied by Mike Osbourne. Incidentally Mike is the reason I wanted to start scratch building my own wagons and as previously mentioned elsewhere his MRJ articles and spending time with him on the S7 stand over the past few years has inspired me to make a start. The eventual plan is to make some as masters to have then resin cast and that way the stock I need could be born relatively cheaply. So I made a start, taking one of Mike's bodies he did for JLTRT with me as motivation;
I picked a few of these up as seconds from the JLTRT stand last Telford as they were damaged in places. Nothing I can't sort. This one had a damaged top plank, hence the London Pattern top plank above the doors. So I made a start scribing out the floor, using 60thou plastikard. Then I added the headstocks from Evergreen material
Using the John Hayes Book, the 4mm Coal Wagon, I followed his build process and next added sole bars and side rails. The headstocks and side rails were left over length so they could be filed back flush when dry,
I also cut out the bottom doors so they could be added later, thinking this would be easier than scribing in different directions. In reality this doesn't seems to be the case, so I attempted another one.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Why are there narrow planks just off of the side edges of the door openings? I ask because I have not noticed that arrangement in either drawings or (prototype) photos.
Mike's work has inspired me for yonks, not just the result... also the jigs / gauges that he produces to get to the end of the project. I recollect that Mike made a N/S "fence" to ensure floor planks were of consistent width, sadly I cannot remember how he arranged the scribing slot.
Just how many 13T minerals do you need for "The Drain"?
Mike's work has inspired me for yonks, not just the result... also the jigs / gauges that he produces to get to the end of the project. I recollect that Mike made a N/S "fence" to ensure floor planks were of consistent width, sadly I cannot remember how he arranged the scribing slot.
Just how many 13T minerals do you need for "The Drain"?
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
I also noticed that following the John Hayes method in 7mm didn't quite achieve what I wanted with the headstocks. Looking at Mike's wagon, drawings and prototype photos it was clear that filing back the headstocks flush didn't look quite right. So on the second effort I didn't cut out the bottom doors and cut the headstocks exactly and introduced the rounded corners and the slight overhang as per the prototype.
Circled in red are the bits that bothered me and I'm now much happier with where I am. The first won't be scrapped, I'm a Yorkshire man ya know and i'm chucking nowt away!! Final stage here was to try and introduce some graining with coarse sandpaper and although it's subtle I think it looks ok at the moment
So to get to this stage I used the following Evergreen bits as marked on the packets and some 60thou sheet. From what I can see these are the closest sizes to the prototype but always best to work from dimensions on a drawing. This is one thing I couldn't find in the John Hayes book as it is taylored only to 4mm. Almost a one stop shop his book and if you're thinking of having a go it's a must IMHO.
I'm now off to scribe the sides and hopefully get them fitted today, nice to be back
ATB Mick
Circled in red are the bits that bothered me and I'm now much happier with where I am. The first won't be scrapped, I'm a Yorkshire man ya know and i'm chucking nowt away!! Final stage here was to try and introduce some graining with coarse sandpaper and although it's subtle I think it looks ok at the moment
So to get to this stage I used the following Evergreen bits as marked on the packets and some 60thou sheet. From what I can see these are the closest sizes to the prototype but always best to work from dimensions on a drawing. This is one thing I couldn't find in the John Hayes book as it is taylored only to 4mm. Almost a one stop shop his book and if you're thinking of having a go it's a must IMHO.
I'm now off to scribe the sides and hopefully get them fitted today, nice to be back
ATB Mick
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
The narrow planks area as per the drawing Mike sent. The drawing is a GA of a 12T Chas Roberts 8 plank and shows the thinner plank each side of the bottom doors and also some cover plates at either end. Mike's wagon above is a model of the 8 plank, mine will be 7 planks. It's not something I've seen before either but thought it best to work from the drawing. I'm not sure of the provenience of the drawing but I'll check with Mike.
I think Mike's work is fantastic and as you say his methods are inspiring, I took this picture with his permission as York so that I can produce the floor jig for my own use,
You scribe along the right hand edge and then slide the jig to the right and pick your just scribed line and so on. You can't see but the bottom edge is bent at 90 degrees so the jig produces a square line as you work along your floor. The floor is hence scribed left to right.
How many ?? Errrrm S**t loads
Well at least 60 I'd say. I've got a few years work yet but it is a long term project. Any how the S7 NEAG may let me run some on their club layout prior to mine being finished, or started !ATB Mick
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
I did think about adding it for a nano second and then stuck it into the too hard to do draw
I may attempt it at some point but if it's good enough for Mr Osbourne it's good enough for me,Mick
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
Could any one help me change the thread title to 'Mick's Wagon Workbench' from it's current title please. I only ask as I think it'll more appropriate as I have recently acquired this,
Scale 12inchs to 1ft. The wife is into George's amazing spaces so I exploited the opportunity and to my shock she bought it. She is envisaging a summer house or something, I'm thinking a set of MMP underframe parts ( the full size version ) and she'll be as good as new.
From what I can see its probably a dia D2039 LMS built van or a later BR version, the sole bars and headstocks are still fitted and are steel, unfortunately they're burried so I can't see any identifying marks anywhere and the chances of the plates being still fitted are slim. The last picture shows the poorly side but from inside things don't look too bad. There's a load of hooks on the roof, I assume for hanging meat or fruit ? Silly question time, does anyone know hoe much it will weigh as first job is to shift it ?
ATB Mick
Scale 12inchs to 1ft. The wife is into George's amazing spaces so I exploited the opportunity and to my shock she bought it. She is envisaging a summer house or something, I'm thinking a set of MMP underframe parts ( the full size version ) and she'll be as good as new.
From what I can see its probably a dia D2039 LMS built van or a later BR version, the sole bars and headstocks are still fitted and are steel, unfortunately they're burried so I can't see any identifying marks anywhere and the chances of the plates being still fitted are slim. The last picture shows the poorly side but from inside things don't look too bad. There's a load of hooks on the roof, I assume for hanging meat or fruit ? Silly question time, does anyone know hoe much it will weigh as first job is to shift it ?
ATB Mick
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
If that is as Chas Rbts then thank you.
Your photo looks like the jig which Mike showed to me maybe ten years back.
Surely the S7NEAG Club Layout is to be called Holderness Drain?
regards, Graham
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Mick, you can change it yourself, just click edit on your first post in this thread, then click more options and the title up top should then be available to edit as you see fit
As for weight you'd need to find the tare weight for a general wagon and then maybe half it, I'd take a rough guess at around 3 tons with all the detritus that clings to these thing when pulled out of the ground, nice buy BTW
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
Could be, we need to have our first meeting yet though
For a moment I thought you had acquired a caravan!
Very nice work Mick, what are you going to do for the undergubbins?
All the best
Simon
Cheers Simon, the van body is at a caravan storage place, hence the surroundings! I think these first few will be MMP as before on other builds but I think long term drawing some up of my own and having it etched will be more cost effective ? I'll have to get my head around a CAD program at some point.
ATB Mick
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
Mick, you can change it yourself, just click edit on your first post in this thread, then click more options and the title up top should then be available to edit as you see fit
As for weight you'd need to find the tare weight for a general wagon and then maybe half it, I'd take a rough guess at around 3 tons with all the detritus that clings to these thing when pulled out of the ground, nice buy BTW
Cheers Mick, I'll have a crack now at changing it. I'll have a look for the tare weight but 3 tons is probably a good starting point as you say. I just hope the things stays in one piece when it's lifted !
ATB Mick
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
Hi Mick
Please post pics of the removal
Steve
Will do Steve, I've had a quote from a local hire firm today for a hiab, which will be able to lift 3tons at £65 an hour, which I didn't think was too bad. Hopefully we'll get it moved in about eight weeks thereabouts,
ATB Mick
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
So a little more progress on my 7 plank last night and this morning. The next stage was to tackle the side sheeting, as Mr Hayes suggests I scribed a length of 60thou which was long enough for two sides and two ends altogether, so that the plank lines all meet up again once the body is put together. I only have a 12inch steel rule and tried to do the sheeting in two halves, with limited success. It's very difficult to do this accurately and I'm not 100% happy. I have now ordered a two foot steel rule from ebay which should cure this issue;
Once this was done I cut out the sides and ends and scribed the side doors on, the standard width of a side being 4ft. The ends are cut to size and fitted and then the sides are cut over length and fitted to allow the side door to be centralised on the floor
I then left the body to harden overnight. The next stage is to try and introduce the bowing on the sides as my modelling period is around 1950 and lots of these timber wagons were very work worn, the sides bowing due to the constant weight of coal etc. Following the John Hayes method I fitted two props to bow the sides and dipped the body into near boiling water for a moment and then into cold. Bloody worrying I can tell you, I thought it may melt into a blob!
However it seemed to work well and this picture shows an eye view of one of the sides, looking at prototype photos it seems about right ?
Next job was to trim the sides back and file flush. The door end is scribed in where it meets the sides as this is lost in assembly and the side sheet ends are cut in also
The photos aren't too kind but my saving grace is that these wagons have knocks and lumps out of them all over so hopefully once painted it won't be too bad. Next job was the fixed end, the corner plates are 10thou and the stanchions are again from Evergreen strip. The end stanchions are left overlong so they can be filed back to fit and the taper introduced, apparently this is easier when they are fitted but we shall see,
Finally I managed to knock a solebar off whilst doing this lot and the other didn't take a lot of shifting. I think there are two reasons for this, the MEK I was using was the last dregs of an old bottle and the Evergreen seems more resistant to it compared to the plastikard sheet. Anyway I took this chance to introduce some relief at the ends to allow room for the buffer nuts, which I hadn't noticed would be an issue until I had fitted them first time around. The picture shows an exactoscale underframe sat in place, although this is the wrong wheel base it just allows me to space the solebars correctly,
Once this was done I cut out the sides and ends and scribed the side doors on, the standard width of a side being 4ft. The ends are cut to size and fitted and then the sides are cut over length and fitted to allow the side door to be centralised on the floor
I then left the body to harden overnight. The next stage is to try and introduce the bowing on the sides as my modelling period is around 1950 and lots of these timber wagons were very work worn, the sides bowing due to the constant weight of coal etc. Following the John Hayes method I fitted two props to bow the sides and dipped the body into near boiling water for a moment and then into cold. Bloody worrying I can tell you, I thought it may melt into a blob!
However it seemed to work well and this picture shows an eye view of one of the sides, looking at prototype photos it seems about right ?
Next job was to trim the sides back and file flush. The door end is scribed in where it meets the sides as this is lost in assembly and the side sheet ends are cut in also
The photos aren't too kind but my saving grace is that these wagons have knocks and lumps out of them all over so hopefully once painted it won't be too bad. Next job was the fixed end, the corner plates are 10thou and the stanchions are again from Evergreen strip. The end stanchions are left overlong so they can be filed back to fit and the taper introduced, apparently this is easier when they are fitted but we shall see,
Finally I managed to knock a solebar off whilst doing this lot and the other didn't take a lot of shifting. I think there are two reasons for this, the MEK I was using was the last dregs of an old bottle and the Evergreen seems more resistant to it compared to the plastikard sheet. Anyway I took this chance to introduce some relief at the ends to allow room for the buffer nuts, which I hadn't noticed would be an issue until I had fitted them first time around. The picture shows an exactoscale underframe sat in place, although this is the wrong wheel base it just allows me to space the solebars correctly,