Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

Definitely an F6, the side tanks were higher and virtually lined up with the base of the side window. On 218/9 the tank tops were below the window base.

Martin @Martin Shaw , Bob @robertm and Arun - thanks for the discussion about the putative F6. I'm going to edit the description to describe the loco as an F6 and thank you for the info which has lead to the identification. The discussion will be attached to photo documentation. Thanks also, Bob, for confirming that the coach is "acceptable" - not only that but can be identified! I'll add that to the documentation as well.

More photos here from Ireland, and all details are taken from Irish Steam Loco Register by JWP Rowledge published by Irish Traction Group.

Two GNR(I) Class A 0-6-0s at Adelaide MPD on 20th April 1957. The one nearest the camera is 150, Longford, built by Beyer Peacock in 1890. It transferred to the CIE in 1958 becoming their 150N and was withdrawn in 1961.



I’m at sea with this one. I read the number as 364 and it’s clearly an 0-6-0. However GNR(I) loco numbers never went beyond 210 and although 364 is within the Great Southern Railways numbering sequence that number is taken by a 2-6-0 which had already been withdrawn. I’ll be grateful to anyone with a knowledge of Irish railways who can provide proper details. Tim advises this as being at Amiens Street Station (Dublin) on 20th April 1957.

A most unlikely confirmation of the loco comes from here: CIE - 0-6-0 - NO. 364- IRISH RAIL PHOTO #2275 | eBay It doesn't tell us any more about the loco but at least there's confirmation of its existence!



GNR(I) Class T 4-4-2T 188 at Amiens Street Station, Dublin on Easter Saturday, 20th April 1957. Built by Beyer Peacock in 1913 rebuilt to T1 in 1927 and transferred to CIE in 1958 who withdrew it in 1959 without renumbering it.



Two photos here of GNR(I) QGT class 0-6-2T 99 of 1905 at Amiens Street Station (Dublin) on 20th April 1957. No 99 was built by Robert Stephenson and rebuilt in 1935 to QGTs and transferred to CIE where it became 99N and was withdrawn in 1960.





GNR(I) Class Qs 4-4-0 132 Mercury built by Neilson Reid in 1901 and here at Amiens Street Station, Dublin on 20th April 1957. It was rebuilt from Q to Qs in 1922 and moved to CIE as 132n in 1958 where it was withdrawn in 1963.



Brian

The mystery 0-6-0 has the appearance of a UG class, although I am not entirely satisified by the cab roof outline. May I suggest that the number is actually 36 and what is being read as '4' is actually the light off the angle of the front coupling hook. The class were numbered 78-82, built 1937 and 145-149 built post war to a slightly modified design. The locos were renumbered by the UTA although I cannot (yet) discover the re-numbering sequences. I understand that some UG's were renumbered into the mid-40's but so far, I have no further information. Prhaps someone else is having better luck. After all, it may not be a UG - -it's that cab that bothers me........

Roger

Roger Pound said:

The mystery 0-6-0 has the appearance of a UG class, although I am not entirely satisified by the cab roof outline. May I suggest that the number is actually 36 and what is being read as '4' is actually the light off the angle of the front coupling hook. The class were numbered 78-82, built 1937 and 145-149 built post war to a slightly modified design. The locos were renumbered by the UTA although I cannot (yet) discover the re-numbering sequences. I understand that some UG's were renumbered into the mid-40's but so far, I have no further information. Prhaps someone else is having better luck. After all, it may not be a UG - -it's that cab that bothers me........

Roger

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I’m sure you’re right. Number 36 plus a coupling hook.

Stanier 2-6-4T No. 42540 was one of eight of the early 2-cylinder variants with domeless boilers.

Roger
I'm sorry it's not a GNR(I) UG class, you were right to be cautious For the record there were two batches as you note. The half of the class that went to the UTA were nos 78/9/82/146/9 which were renumbered in that order 45-49. They had round spectacle windows, round top fireboxes and solid splashers, all matters that differ on the mystery engine.

Brian
It took some tracking down but it is a GS&WR 351 class, later a GSR J9. Originally built as a batch of four numbered 351-354 in 1903 to a Coey design at Inchicore, with a further four in 1912 numbered 249 -252. All eight were rebuilt in the 1930s with Belpaire firebox and superheated which gave it the appearance in the photograph.

The number is misleading, 364 was a GS&WR 362 class 4-6-0 built in 1905 but only lasted until 1928. The class were the first 4-6-0s in Ireland. I can find no other reference to a locomotive number 364 in Ireland ever. I think both Tim's photo and the ebay one show either a badly applied transfer or poor hand painting which should be read as 354 which is an appropriate number for that class of loco, it was withdrawn in 1962.
Martin

Martin Shaw said:

It took some tracking down but it is a GS&WR 351 class, later a GSR J9. Originally built as a batch of four numbered 351-354 in 1903 to a Coey design at Inchicore, with a further four in 1912 numbered 249 -252. All eight were rebuilt in the 1930s with Belpaire firebox and superheated which gave it the appearance in the photograph.

The number is misleading, 364 was a GS&WR 362 class 4-6-0 built in 1905 but only lasted until 1928. The class were the first 4-6-0s in Ireland. I can find no other reference to a locomotive number 364 in Ireland ever. I think both Tim's photo and the ebay one show either a badly applied transfer or poor hand painting which should be read as 354 which is an appropriate number for that class of loco, it was withdrawn in 1962.

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You beat me to it. Definitely CIE class J9, ex GS&WR 351 class, number 354. The issue with misinterpreting the Irish script numbers has been discussed previously on this thread. The attached copy of part of a published photo of CIE C2 456 shows the normal form of the numerals on the buffer beam and confirms that the J9 is 35- and the 4 is visible on the cab side. Only one other J9 is possible, 351 as 352 had a different boiler and 353 was withdrawn in 1931.

Thanks Martin - as I said, the cab bothered me so at least a modicum of satisfaction there. I did not mention the shape of the cab windows as I could not clearly make them out although I thought they were oblong as opposed to circular, which again is it not as on a UG. I still think the front coupling hook hides/distorts the last digit though........! I must confess that GS&WR stock is not my strong point

Thanks too to @Overseer for the further information and photograph. All of great interest to this closet Irish Railways fan.

Roger.

Thank you, Larry @LarryG . Another refinement of a 2-6-4T to add to the detail.

Then, chaps - what a wonderful result of all that research in to the 0-6-0. I'm pleased to have a photograph of Tim's which originated on the GS & WR. That was one hell of a railway in its day. I'd not considered a misread of the number but having seen the photo from @Overseer that is so easily misreadable. So, to all involved - Roger @Roger Pound , @40057 , Martin @Martin Shaw and @Overseer - thank you.

GNR(I) Class S 4-4-0 172 Slieve Donard at Great Victoria Street Station Belfast on 20th April 1957. It was built by Beyer Peacock in 1913 and rebuilt in 1938. In 1958 it went to the UTA where it was renumbered 60 and withdrawn in 1965.



Two photos of GNR(I) No 187 which was a T1 4-4-2T built as a T by Beyer Peacock in 1913, here at Adelaide MPD, Belfast, in August 1957. It was rebuilt in 1926 and moved to the UTA in 1958 as 187x, being withdrawn in 1964.





GNR(I) No 122 Vulcan, a Qs 4-4-0 built in 1903 by North British as a Q and rebuilt in 1924 as a Qs. It went to the UTA becoming their 122x and being withdrawn in 1960. No 1 was a T2 4-4-2T built by Beyer Peacock in 1921 which went to the CIE and was not renumbered but withdrawn in 1959. The location is Great Victoria Street Station Belfast and the date is probably August 1957.



No 184 was a GNR(I) SG2 Class 0-6-0 of 1915 and built by Beyer Peacock. In this photo it’s at Adelaide MPD Belfast in August 1957. It was renumbered 184N when it moved to the CIE and was withdrawn in 1963.



Two photos of GNR(I) A Class 0-6-0 No 60 Dundalk built by the GNR at Dundalk in 1890. Here it’s at Adelaide MPD (Belfast) in August 1957 It went to the CIE in 1958 as their Class AL and was not renumbered but withdrawn in 1959.





Brian

Three more Irish photos here to complete the set, and then a couple back across the water.

The same loco on two different dates and in two locations. This is GNR(I) No 23, an RT Class 0-6-4T built by Beyer Peacock in 1908 and going to the UTA in 1958 where it was not renumbered and withdrawn in 1963. The first photo is in the Belfast Docks Area (which was their home territory) in November 1956 and the second at Adelaide MPD Belfast in August 1957.





GNR(I) VS class 4-4-0 No 207 Boyne built in 1948 by Beyer Peacock and which went to the CIE as their 207N. The loco was then sold to the UTA in 1963 on the cessation of steam on the CIE. The UTA withdrew the loco in 1965. Here it’s at Adelaide MPD Belfast in July 1957. It's one of the photos Tim asked me to print for him.



Standard Class 4 2-6-4T 80131 at Fenchurch Street in November 1957. The loco was new to Plaistow in March 1956, then Tilbury in November 1959, Old Oak Common in August and Shrewsbury in September 1962, Oswestry February 1963 and Bangor in February 1965 where it was withdrawn in the following May. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cohen’s, Morriston in July 1965. (BR Database).



At Eastleigh and I believe in the shed yard on 30th November 1957 was B4 0-4-0T 30083. Eastleigh was the allocation from November 1953 and it was withdrawn from there in November 1959. (SLS). Not surprisingly the site of scrapping was Eastleigh Works during the same month. (RO).



Brian

Tyne Dock Shed turntable and 9F 92061 complete with Westinghouse pumps on 1st September 1957. The pumps were used to drive the pneumatic doors on the iron ore wagons which worked to Consett for the iron works. Allocation of the loco was Tyne Dock from April 1956 – in fact from new in November 1955 but it went on loan to Wellingborough – and it was withdrawn from Tyne Dock in September 1966. (SLS). It was scrapped in November 1966 at Draper’s, Hull. (BR Database).



Another of the Westinghouse pump fitted 9F 2-10-0s, 92098 on a Tyne Dock to Consett Ore Train passing Tyne Dock MPD on 1st September 1956. As the above photo is dated exactly a year earlier we may guess that both photos were actually taken on the same date, but whether 1956 or 1957 I have no way of knowing. This loco was allocated to Tyne Dock when new in July 1956 (BR Database) and was withdrawn in July 1966. (SLS). It was scrapped at Draper’s, Hull, in October the same year. (BR Database). This was another picture I printed for Tim as he knew it'd be a bit of a challenge - the negative was absolutely filthy. Regrettably it's just a bit unsharp so was really quite unsatisfactory as an A4 print. I remember Tim being so disappointed - he'd been wanting a print for years as the neg had never been printed and he considered it one of his best.



Standard Class 4 2-6-0 76072 at Stranraer MPD in July 1957. We saw this loco previously in post #444. The SLS advises it was always a Dumfries engine from new in October 1956. 76072 was withdrawn in October 1964 (SLS) and scrapped in May 1965 at Shipbreaking Industries (Faslane) after the scandalously short life of 8 years and 12 days. (BR Database).



55240 at Stranraer Carriage Sidings in July 1957. Another negative separated from its fellows which were in post #468. 55240 appears to be someone's pet, the equal I'd say of the Liverpool Street pilots. I understand this to be a Caledonian/Pickersgill 431 or 2P 0-4-4T. It's certainly recorded as a Stranraer loco at this time and had been since February 1957 before moving to Ayr in April 1960, stored in July 1961 but at Helford and withdrawal in November 1961 where it was stored until at least August 1963. (RO, LCGB and SLS). Scrapping occurred in October 1963 (BR Database) at Connell's, Coatbridge (RO).



Brian

Brian
Re #3993, a typo in the caption. 55240 was stored at Hurlford shed which is near Kilmarnock, Helford is in Cornwall I believe.

The loco and various items of rolling stock are on the carriage sidings built during WWII to alleviate storage for various government related activities. Access to them was controlled by a GF itself controlled by Stranraer Town signal box. The box in the background is Stranraer Harbour Junction signal box built in 1921 so almost one of the last built by the Caledonian Railway.

oldravendale said:

Standard Class 4 2-6-0 76072 at Stranraer MPD in July 1957. We saw this loco previously in post #444. The SLS advises it was always a Dumfries engine from new in October 1956. 76072 was withdrawn in October 1964 (SLS) and scrapped in May 1965 at Shipbreaking Industries (Faslane) after the scandalously short life of 8 years and 12 days. (BR Database).

View attachment 237082




Brian

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The loco behind 76072 is a Crab and according to BRDatabase, if this shot is July '57, can only be 42749, she arrived at Stranraer from Carlisle Kingmoor on 26/01/52 and left on 21/12/57 back to Carlisle Kingmoor, it was scrapped November '62.

Col.