A.B.S. Workbench

[7mmMick]

Adrian,

I like the sounds of the scratchbuilt floors, I found that if the mitre's on the body are fettled a little they don't bow in too much but I would still like to acheive the bowed out side look as per the prototype at the end of their days. So i'll +1 to the abive and say can you show us some pictures please

Cheers Mick

 

[Stu Fox]

Yes pictures please... ...oh and I think I'll only post 'waist upwards' pics from now . My brake gear often leaves much to be desired

Very interesting stuff

Regards

Stu

 

[Adrian B.Swain]

Hi I do run on the club test track and in fact was in charge of building the previous one which lasted about 20
years. I lumbered myself with buiding it in order to have a decent size track to run on. All my other layouts are designed to fit in the house and so are only 13' long or 12' x 8' L shaped or less. I have only recently started getting them up now I own my late parents house. The original dream was a 48' x 20' basement but 2008 put paid to that so the big O gauge layout is now reduced to one which will only be 15' 6" x 8' "L" Alas not ready to run on as I have not built the baseboards for this one. The others are 4mm or 7mm Ng or 4mm tram layouts.
I am not a lover of springing although a degree of resilience makes running quieter. Good track and careful
use of the controller provides good running without compensation or springing if wagon weights are kept high.
I do find it exasperating when modellers say "Whitemetal kits ! far too heavy" and then promptly ballast their
wagons to make them run properly and finish up with similar or higher weights than my kits. A recent article in
MRJ No 220 suggests a weight of 250gm (over 8 ounces) to make the springing work on the model PO wagon
being built. Since most of my 5 plank wagons weigh about this or lower I feel perhaps the modellers complaining
about whitemetal are really just trying to find an excuse to buy plastic kits. Light wagons are far more of a
problem than heavy ones. A Golden Age Pullman weighs about 48 ounces and length for length would be equal
to about 15 ounces per wagon. Long wheelbase (over 12') can be compensated to advantage and 6 wheel
vehicles need some sort of compensation even if the Cleminson system is not employed.
One of the wagons on the bench is a Parkside PO on which I have been experimenting with compensation
based on one side rocking rather than one end. This I came across in S gauge about 40 years ago and I find
is also now being used by Lionheart. It was really a by-product of trying to be able to remove the axleguards
and brakegear as a self contained unit for painting purposes. I will try to post photos of this, it is in my usual
fashion very cheap, very crude, but it works.
This is a similar approach to my buffer heads in 7mm which are drawing pins, on the outer face, they are almost perfect for 16" buffers and a blob of epoxy on the back removes the concavity if you want to.
When the 7mm range started I had no idea if it would be commercially viable so had to take a lot of
cheapskate shortcuts to keep the costs as low as possible. The amusing thing is that many modellers who
wish to make a point about our drawing pins are now told that we can supply retrofit scale size heads.
When we show them the `12" (7mm dia) scale heads, many immediately say "Oh they are too small, I will
get buffer locking on my layout, don't you do any bigger ones ?" They often go away happy with the
expensive scale 16" ones, exactly the same size as the drawing pins !! As long as they are happy and I have
their money, all is well. Oh dear, sounds a bit like Dapol !! adrianbs

 

[SteveO]

... but 2008 put paid to that...

Bad vintage?

Your one-sided compensation idea sound interesting. A couple months ago a formed an idea in the bath about trying to emulate the '70s hydro-suspension systems but couldn't work out how to implement it. My idea was based on an old diagram I saw that showed when one wheel was lifted, the system would lower the diametrical opposite wheel, thereby keeping the platform level. In essence, this would be a cross-compensation rather than an axle compensation. Probably wouldn't work though. Interested to hear anyone's thoughts though.

 

[Adrian B.Swain]

Hi Steve, According to the principles laid down for COMPENSATION as opposed to SPRINGING by my friend
Brian ( ABC GEARBOXES Plug !) all the wheels must be reduced to a 3 legged stool situation with a system of
pivots and beams. This is very straightforward on a 4 wheel wagon. If you were to use a diagonal beam between
opposite corners with a pivot somewhere near the line joining the 2 other wheels the wagon would simply fall
sideways until it came up against a stop, eg the axlebox or spring hit the limit of movement.
Normally on a wagon one axle is fixed in a non moving arrangment and the other axle ia allowed to pivot about
the centreline of the wagon. The longer the distance between th fixed axle and the pivot for the floating wheels
the more stable the vehicle will be when moving and dynamic loads are being encountered. The one side
fixed, one side pivotted system works well but is slightly less stable. in O gauge the distance in the first case is
the wheelbase i.e normally 63mm or more but the second design has only the track gauge i.e about 32mm.
If the dynamics are not significant both will work much the same but at high speeds and changes of direction
the latter system will tend to wallow. adrianbs

 

[iploffy]

3 legged suspension just like the milk maids stool (and no not)

 

[BrushType4]

All very interesting, but Adrian, I need pictures so I know what you at talking about!

 

[Osgood]

Now look, this compensation and brake gear stuff is all very interesting - but - don't you lot realise that your continued pressure on the poor chap to deliver a fully illustrated biopic of his workbench is inadvertently distracting ABS from the prime purpose for which he was put on this planet - to secure for the benefit of 1/43 modellers the continued manufacture and supply of those wonderful former Classic Commercial 7mm Road Vehicle and other kits?

The constant pressure on his time to entertain you with words and pictures of brake gear and the like is resulting in ABS having somewhat less than the potential 24 hours available each day for him to fulfill his prime purpose, which results in me having to wait even longer for him to secure new supplies of the quality ingredients of these kits before he is in a position to supply certain models (Ruston 10RB, early cab (and the crane jib please)) . He assures me that he has been working hard to replicate and secure the supply of many of the delicate components at affordable prices - but these things don't grow on trees you know.

 

[Dog Star]

Yup, seems a fair trade - slightly less pictures than normal in return for desirable mechandise. Just as long as the 7mm LNWR D32 and D33 are back on-line soon.

regards, Graham

 

[SteveO]

That is a good point Osgood - I've barely started acquiring my quota of open wagons yet! Back to the sweatshop, Adrian.

 

[SteveO]

It had crossed my mind actually...

However, as you say, let's get back to Adrian. Where has he got to?

 

[Ian G]

Im enjoying Adrian's thread but would like to be able to filter out the odd thread or two.

Ian G

 

[adrian]

Im enjoying Adrian's thread but would like to be able to filter out the odd thread or two.

A nice reminder Ian, thank you. This being the workbench thread I've taken the executive decision to move some of the more generic questions for Adrian to a new thread, imaginatively called "Ask Adrian". Hopefully this was the filtering you were alluding to and hopefully we can get back to the topic of the wagon building as we like to be a "doing things" forum.

As an aside I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned the article in March BRM, by one Buckjumper of this parish, on how to build whitemetal wagon kits using an ABS Midland Manure Wagon for the example.

 

[SteveO]

"Ask Adrian"

It would be great if you could link this please.

 

[queensquare]

This being the workbench thread I've taken the executive decision to move some of the more generic questions for Adrian to a new thread, imaginatively called "Ask Adrian".

If you are going to do this for all threads when a slightly awkward or off topic question pops up you are going to be a very busy moderator.

Jerry

 

[Osgood]

As one of the culprits who steered it off course (well just a little, while we were waiting - sorry ) I'm inclined to agree with the decision to split it. The new thread stands up very well on its own, and now has the freedom to go in whatever direction the points might allow - subject of course to the signals giving a clear run!

Wagon kits - is this what happens when you use the wrong adhesive?

 

[adrian]

If you are going to do this for all threads when a slightly awkward or off topic question pops up you are going to be a very busy moderator.

Don't worry I won't be doing it for every topic that wanders off topic, I want to keep the moderation to an absolute minimum and get back to my modelling. Just to explain it's nothing to do with awkward questions, it's more just a small reminder about the ethos of WT, Cynric called it SBB, or spam, banter and bollocks. If the original poster wishes to go off topic then that's fine otherwise as Cynric said "it is a matter of good forum etiquette not to post SBB on other peoples threads". I have never deleted any content from WT, just shuffled this bit around a little. Unfortunately we are again getting in danger of more SBB - which I have no qualms about discussing but I would respectfully ask that it be done on the SBB thread and not here.

Thanks.

Adrian

 

[Buckjumper]

As an aside I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned the article in March BRM, by one Buckjumper of this parish, on how to build whitemetal wagon kits using an ABS Midland Manure Wagon for the example.

I don't get to build many w/m kits these days but I'd like to say that Adrian's Midland wagon was a delight to build with very little flash or fettling, and hopefully that came across in my piece.

In keeping with the aim of the series I aimed it squarely at the soldering novice and built it (with the exception of the plonk-and-play Haywood buffers) out of the box. Accurately drilling blind buffer castings is, I think, a little beyond the beginner, so I'm all for offering alternatives to keep the shelf queens at bay and gradually build their confidence levels up.

The manure wagon will enter service on Basilica Fields, (running ex-Whitecross Street goods depot) but there are a few things I'd like to do to it just to bring it in line with my other stock first: Fit proper shunting hooks, an etched brake guard and spring the wheelsets.

No one's noticed the S7 wheelsets on it yet, nor the unusual (for the Midland in this period) use of split spokes rather than the solid type - but that's what's shown in the photo in Bob Essery's book.

Bottom line is that this is what all whitemetal kits could be should be like. I'm not convinced of its use on locos except for the larger castings (dome, backhead, smokebox door, chimney, etc), but it suits an open wagon very well, and the weight imparts a nice degree of inertia. If I had a runaway manure wagon down the 1 in 40 at Artillery Lane gridiron I think any Slater's Midland wagon getting in its way would end up looking like the one in Osgood's photo above

 

[Wagonman]

Now look, this compensation and brake gear stuff is all very interesting - but - don't you lot realise that your continued pressure on the poor chap to deliver a fully illustrated biopic of his workbench is inadvertently distracting ABS from the prime purpose for which he was put on this planet - to secure for the benefit of 1/43 modellers the continued manufacture and supply of those wonderful former Classic Commercial 7mm Road Vehicle and other kits?

There will be something on 'Classic Commercials' in the next (May) issue of the S7G Newsletter....

 

[Adrian B.Swain]

A comment on Buckjumpers article on my Manure wagon .
I appreciate my buffers are not exactly "Plonk and Play" but my way of drilling my buffers seems to work 99
times out of 100. Hold the stem in a large pin chuck ( they do come big enough !!) put a 0.070" - 1.7mm
drill in a smaller pin chuck and start drilling. Every few twists rotate the large pin chuck through 180 degrees,
Why?? everyone has a personal error factor and although you may think you are drilling "right down the middle"
it will soon become apparent when the drill comes out of the side of the buffer that you were not. Each time
you turn the big pin chuck you will effectively nullify your error during the next few twists. USE A SHARP DRILL
and each time you turn the pinchuck clear the drill and dip in WHITE SPIRIT or ENAMEL THINNERS as a
lubricant. SPIT works but not so hygienic and you may get bits of metal in your mouth if you stick the drill in it.
NOT GOOD ! When about 2/3rds the way down the buffer take it out and drill from the other end just holding
the body but again turning 18o degrees every few twists and using lubricant till the holes more or less meet.
You can now push the drill right through and ensure the hole is large enough for our brass tube. By using
white spirit and NOT OIL as a lubricant you will not have to clean up before painting. A lathe can be used
but is not necessary and I never use mine for this job. Using white spirit applies to any other drilling in w/m.
You may wonder why we do not cast the holes right through but there is a GOOD REASON. The small
diameter rubber pegs that are left in the mould once it is made DO go right through but once casting starts
the molten metal causes the pegs to bend towards the centre of the mould ( they effectively "Float" in the
metal which fills up from the outer side of the cavity ) I cut them off short so that there is a "start" on both
ends of the buffer which is adequate for drilling through them as above. I have used PTFE pegs a few
times to get holes all the way through but these are a B-----d nuisance and slow down casting a great deal.
PTFE was difficult to obtain when I started and turning small diameters is quite a problem.
As a further aside, I have finally found a much easier way to fit the springing to the buffers and hook.
Instead of threading the bent piano wire through the hole in the hook shank and clipping one end down
the brass tube and the across the other retaining collar I found that an angled sawcut to the hole in the
shank allowed the hook to be fitted last and the wire to be clipped in place. It still seems strong enough!!
Why did it take me 40 years to work that out ?? Regards adrianbs