Breaking Ground - Finescale - of a sort

[Peter Insole]

Thanks guys, and yes indeed Tony, I too am always concerned about the environmental impact, but as you say it is more a case of general misuse and disposal!

I will have a look for some of that Bird Brand stuff. It is still a bit pricey for my rapidly shrinking purse, but then again it would hopefully be good value for some peace of mind?

Whatever I use, it would have to be suitable for painting over after treatment.

Pete.

 

[simond]

There’s this stuff. It’s pretty nasty…. (That’s a recommendation )

Wood Cut Treatment | Jacksons Fencing

Cut treatment preservative (500g bottle). When cutting or drilling our treated timber products it is essential to apply Jakcure® Preservative

www.jacksons-fencing.co.uk

 

[Osgood]

Once dry the Bird Brand stuff is fine for painting.

ALERT: I gave you the wrong stuff Peter - the BB COMPLETE does not have any woodworm treatment.
You'll need BB COMPLETE + SUPERIOR , just a couple of pounds more.



Simon - that Jackcure stuff is made for them by Barratine who do their own branded products.
Barratine do an equivalent solvent based product to the BB stuff which is quite probably identical in active ingredients.
Out of interest when I get fed up with my chores today I'll compare active ingredients of the two products.

 

[Eastsidepilot]

I'd soak the timber in any of the trade clear preservatives such as Everbuild or Rustins etc. and then paint it, ideally a a preservative type such as Solignum ( effing expensive !) etc. but I doubt if you'll find the colour you want so it may be down to good old Dulux Weathershield perhaps ?

Col.

 

[Osgood]

Having been on UPM (unplanned maintenance) for the last 3 hrs when I should have been on a menu of PPM and NB (new build), it now toast time.
Comparing the data sheets they are broadly the same (as will be all the other brands - the regulations have really restricted what chemicals can be used) but the BB sheet convinces me it is better for woodworm treatment.

But compared to what we used to be able to obtain I do wonder if it is really worth the bother!

 

[Focalplane]

Looking back on my notes and WT thread on choosing and finishing off a KEOP garden structure (The Motor House) I can recommend two coats of Cuprinol followed by two coats of Sadolin. In my case the Sadolin is opaque but they also do stains.

Paul

Edit to add the thread link:

In and Out Buildings - Thoughts and Research

After years of living in a small English cottage and traveling with suitcase at work in Africa I finally retired and during the past year we sold up in the Cotswolds and moved to Hampshire, buying a somewhat neglected but interesting 1970s bungalow with half an acre of garden and a double...

www.westernthunder.co.uk

 

[Peter Insole]

Thank you so much everyone!

My main concern is fungi getting underneath any sort of paint finish, something which tends to run rampant in modern timbers - especially the sort that are packaged and sold "dry" in general, DIY stores!

I am watching this now with great interest and gratitude!

Pete.

 

[Simon]

All that said, if you simply prime and paint them then they will surely be fine, given that they are suspended up in the air and won't have much scope for staying damp.

I fear some of us are worrying too much again on Pete's behalf...

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Knotting first

 

[Pete_S]

Thank you Michael. The pine "dags" are cut from very soft, open grained timber, so I am hoping to find an effective treatment to thoroughly soak them with before hanging them outside - otherwise I fear that after all the effort they might not last very long?!

The old ways with wood were lead paint and creosote, both horribly toxic of course - and that is precisely why they were so effective!

Pete.

If the timber is damp, no amount of toxic preservative will stop it from going bad from the inside out. Think of sleepers - they were pressure injected with boiling hot creosote & yet there would still come a point when the top would cave in enveloping one in a shower of sawdust & wasps.

If your softwood was until recently dozing peacefully in the timber merchants' yard, leave it stacked & sticked under something heavy for a few months in a warm place, then paint up the back and edges before fitting but leave the face bare for as long as possible as it seasons.

If your softwood has been in dry storage for a year or more you'll be good to go with whatever coating takes your fancy.

My preferred spec is: Knotting, 1 x Primer, 4 x undercoats, sand, final u/coat (thin), 4 x topcoats (key between each coat), wet sand (400 grit), final topcoat if needed, 2 x varnish.
That's for Coaches & big green metallic things though; for wagons & buildings I'd leave out the varnish stage.

If the wood is dry & has weathered to a silvery-grey, tosh over it with a 50/50 mix of boiled linseed & turps/white spirit. Allow to soak in & then paint as normal.

Pete S.

C&W Dept. GWS Didcot (Lapsed)

 

[Peter Insole]

It's all my fault! While I do tend to worry about everything anyway, in this case, it is a more a matter of bitter experience with the (modern) materials that are commonly available and remotely affordable these days!

I would still prefer to impregnate the terribly soft timber with some form of nasty chemical treatment as a sort of back stop - after all, it only takes one tiny crack in the best applied paintwork to let the moisture (and a microscopic fungal spore) in!

Many thanks again to everyone who have so generously spent the time contributing!

Anyway, the big task continues, but for a slight delay when I broke my last remaining linisher belt! Mr O., came to the rescue that evening by ordering a fresh supply on-line, and they had arrived from goodness-knows-where by lunchtime the next day! Not only did the pack contain twelve of the belts, but also a really handy pair of cotton gloves, gratis! Ridiculous - but lovely!



The remainder of the spears for the front face were a breeze to whizz into shape!



It will be evident that I was working with a knackered belt for the first half-dozen - as they are the scorched ones at the bottom of the pile!

The last act before starting to work out the angles for the sloping, side dags was to make a pair of quarter width, end-stop "specials".



I only needed to roughly draw out the alignment on the card template as I am making allowance for a final trim when fitting up in situ!

The problem with these little jobs is that they required a bit of subterfuge:



In order for the points to align with the rest at the corners I had to subtly alter the curve profile - including a short flat section to accommodate the thickness of the next right-angled, half-section starters.

I am hoping that the slight variation will not be that noticeable when they are all finally hung in place?!

Pete.

 

[Osgood]

I'm sure you'd get away with a readily available 2.5litre can if you're only going to treat the canopy fascia, Peter - just over half the 5l cost

 

[Peter Insole]

I was wondering about that Tony. Although it would be a right ol' faff, any of the ordinary plain timbers could at least be cut out and replaced - or new material scarfed in if and when rot gets going?

Losing the valences feels a bit unthinkable at the moment, so I suppose I am being a bit precious about them?!

Pete.

 

[Overseer]

I have to agree with Simon. Too much worrying going on. There are problems with timber rotting more rapidly than it used to. Some of this is due to timber being plantation grown in places with better climates than the natural habitat, longer growth season = wider growth rings and lower density. The main problem is that modern acrylic paints are formulated to have thick film layers and are not at all vapour permeable. Weathershield is a good example of this. Moisture will always get into the timber whether directly or due to condensation below the paint layer and needs to be able to dry out. For external use the timber should not be too dry, you should aim for the moisture content of the timber at installation to be around the average it will be in the external conditions, usually around 8 to 12%. All timber moves with changes in temperature and moisture levels. Pinus sylvestris (Scots Pine, Baltic Pine) is not technically a durable timber but performs very well in sash windows and other joinery as it has a low coefficient of expansion with moisture and temperature which means paint films last longer due to not having to stretch or crack to cope with the movement. I have had numerous examples of failures of timber following painting with modern paints including 100 year old weatherboards which were completely sound but rotted within 12 months of being repainted with Weathershield.

I suggest forgetting about all the wonder products and just buy a cheap acrylic exterior primer and paint and don't put it on too thickly. Hopefully it will be somewhat vapour permeable so the pine can dry out naturally when it gets wet instead of becoming saturated and rot. Repaint after 7 years or so, but again not too thick.

 

[Peter Insole]

Thank you so much Overseer, I shall make a point of avoiding Weathershield like the plague!

Pete.

 

[Peter Insole]

Having established exactly what geometric jig giggling was required for the remaining diagonal dags down the sides, the manufacturing has continued!

Aware that I had not taken production images the first time around - here are some more...



Everything seemed to be swinging along swimmingly well - and a super collection was steadily growing...




But I was brought up short by a bit of a disaster:



I seem to have also been busy generating a rather expensive pile of firewood - and that's only half of it!

Mercifully folks, the first batch and part of the second are all still OK., but the most recent, and largest batch have started to go horribly curly - and many are starting to split too!
All of the timber has been handled and kept in the same places - and is from the same source throughout the process. It is hopefully just a case of two bad packs in the pile?!

It was rather annoying having to go out and pick up another pricey pack today and cut a whole load more - and yes, I am still holding my breath!

Pete.

 

[Susie]

Hi Peter,

If you have enough on the width, cut each bit lengthwise and then glue them back together outside in, if you see what I mean. That way the inside of the tree, which is the bit that is cupping badly, is now on the outside, and most might get cut away with the shaping. That might save the bits that are not too bad.

This is the problem with unseasoned timber that is sawn through and through...

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Agree with Susie, I've done this with wide boards used on tables and other furniture that have cupped ......out with the try plane, and no I don't mean a Fokker

 

[Peter Insole]

Thank you Susie and Col! One of the things that I have noticed is that the outside of the tree is on the inside, and the inside is on the outside. This is presumably because on the outside, the grain is at a more acute angle (and tighter) at the surface than on the inside - which of course is the outside! Strangely, the planed surface finish is actually better on the inside than on the outside - although it might not stay that way once it is outside.

I think I have got it?!

Pete.

 

[michael mott]

Who's on first the outside....sorry I couldn't resist

Michael