DJH 9F 2-10-0

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Awsome:thumbs:

Yes DJH have cheated, probably because the white metal pipework that goes over the regulator rod won't take too kindly to being bent a little more to clear the rod if it were the correct distance from the firebox.

I've been turning my A1 tender wheels to S7 tonight but will add all the Evening Star images to a dropbox file tomorrow for y'all;)

Hi Mickoo.

I have to look at the pipework runs in a bit more detail yet but I'll be surprised if there are not a few more issues to trip me up - and thanks in anticipation of the photos.

In that DJH build photo the rod coming out of the cab looks way too high. Seems you're damned either way if you don't want to make a replacement part

Actually, David, I think the "modified" version looks a lot better and much closer to the location on the cab of the prototype. The cab as supplied definitely has the hole for that pipe too low down and the space between the cowl and the edge of the cab is too great. It's much better to my eye now. Photos will follow when the regulator gear is complete.

Interesting about the relationship to the NSW 38 Class. I've not seen that written up elsewhere. It'd be interesting to see a photo of the 38 Class cab, if you have one. (or I s'pose I should look online!)

Best regards.

Brian
 

OzzyO

Western Thunderer
Hello Brian,

I've been thinking (some will say that's bad) IIRC it's the return crank that is out on the DJH etches, you could have a word with Bill at Premier and see if he would just sell you them parts.

I had a look at Raymond's build of the 9F and noticed how he had fitted the return crank. I do it a bit different.
1] tap the wheel 10BA and counter sink it, I use a steel counter sunk screw and loctite (290) it in place along with the crank pin bush(tapped 10BA), you can leave this one over length.
2] try a second bush in place with the con. rod and coupling rod in place and see how the con. rod looks in relation to the slide bars, you really want it to be parallel to them, if it runs outward file a bit off the second bush.
3] us 8BA washers to take up the slack between the coupling rod and the connecting rod, tighten the outer bush in place
4] if the return crank has a hole in it drill it 10BA clear 1.3mm [I know that 1.4mm is the recommended size, but you want a good fit] (if it has a rebate in it check for fit on the rim of the bush).
5] tin the bush or the rear of the crank and solder it in place on the bush, when the bush is in place on the wheel [make sure that you don't solder the crank or the bush to the screw] if the screw sticks out of the return crank file flush with it.
6] unscrew the return crank and bush and assemble the valve gear.
7] screw back in place using some nail varnish to lock the bush and return crank in place.
fixing for return crank.jpg

Hope the drawing helps (don't know why I've got a T in tapped).
Doing it this way you can unscrew the return crank and drop all the valve gear down and the return crank will always go back in the same place.

OzzyO.
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Hello Brian,

I've been thinking (some will say that's bad) IIRC it's the return crank that is out on the DJH etches, you could have a word with Bill at Premier and see if he would just sell you them parts.


OzzyO.

Thanks for this OzzyO.

It's actually not a million miles away from the method I use and which has given me good service. Perhaps I'll go through it and describe on this erudite site when I have a little more time to concentrate. I certainly have a fundamental issue with the concept of the screws in to thin material - it simply doesn't last. I wonder whether DJH use this method for their RTR locos?

I'll have a further look at your method when I have the loco out on the bench, probably early next week. It'll be good to have a second string to the valve gear bow.

An interesting thought about the return crank. I'll talk to Bill at Premier and if the cost is not too high might just try it although I remain to be convinced. At the moment I think it's a bit more complicated than that because the valve gear on one side works perfectly.

Anyway, we'd be bored if it all went together easily wouldn't we?

Best regards.

Brian
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Now here is the update on where I've got to this week - not very far! I've found this current work very frustrating but I'll share that as I get to it.

I didn't include the shots of the castings with my initial posting about this kit so here they are now.

IMG_2415.JPGIMG_2416.JPGIMG_2417.JPG

As you can see, and because the kit was quite well advanced when I laid my hands on it, many of the castings have already been used. There has been a significant attempt to identify the castings in the instructions, but these are sadly incomplete. There is a list of the white metal components associated with their part numbers from the diagram but there is no photo of each part so it is necessary to have a knowledge of the parts before they can be properly applied. As far as the lost wax parts are concerned, there is a good photo of each sprue with each part identified by part number but no list by name, so it's not possible to look for parts by name, (when you actually know the name of the part!) In fact, there is one part on one of the drawings hanging in mid air with no indication of where it fits and as we don't know what the part is meant to be by name it's not possible to work out where it should fit. Note too that the instructions are actually very basic. Once the base assembly is built according to the instructions one works entirely from photos or drawings and the instructions simply say to add the parts shown on the drawing or photo. In my opinion DJH would have been well advised to ask a competent but not expert model builder to build their kits using the instructions as they are at the moment and identify where they fall down.

IMG_2433 (2).JPG

Front footsteps formed and fitted. No problem here.

IMG_2432.JPG

We've previously discussed the issues surrounding the regulator gear, and here it is in it's modified form . I fitted the small cowl at the top of the cab and the rod coming from that. Looking at Mickoo's prototype pictures this is much closer to prototype than the provided kit position identified in the photo above by the unoccupied hole in the cab front. This created a lot of work in checking prototype data and working out how to fit. Not a great problem as such and interesting in it's way, but this sort of thing is really slowing the build and my mojo is being frustrated.

IMG_2433.JPG

Here's the latest issue. There is no instruction when to fit the ejector. The drawings show an ejector as fitted but in fact there are two different castings provided, with nothing about this in the instructions. As a result I found one casting but it did not match the prototype or drawing. That's the one temporarily blu tacked to the loco above. Looking at photos it is a 9F ejector but not the one fitted to Evening Star. In the absence of any advice that there were two types of ejector provided I started to think about how this one could be modified or whether to try to get a suitable one at Telford, and while cogitating I went through the castings in the tray. Low and behold, there was another casting, but in two parts. That's the one above the chimney.

IMG_2431.JPG

So....I blu tacked it in place for the photo only to find that it is too long for purpose and fouls the steam pipe cover. Again, I have the option of either trying for a new one at Telford or modifying this one. I have to join the two parts anyway!

IMG_2434.JPG

In order to not delay the build any longer I decided to try modification by cutting out a section of the front piece of the casting. With the section cut out this length more nearly matches the prototype - see Mickoo's photos again. So I now had the part in three pieces. I drilled the centre of each part with a .7mm drill and installed a piece of .7mm wire in each hole to hold the part together before I soldered with 100 degree solder. Success! All that's needed now is the brass pipework which will be the next job.

In a perverse way this sort of problem is a test of skill, I suppose, and gives one "ownership" of the specific build. However, should such problems be acceptable? Considering the frustrations of this one, how on earth will I cope with the Ace K?

Brian
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Coming along nicely now, keep at it, it'll be worth it in the end:thumbs:

Regarding the K class, just like this, one step at a time;)
 

dibateg

Western Thunderer
Depends on how much you want to change Brian, Ragstone do a good range of 9F castings. I shall have to dig one of my kits out of the cupboard and check the instructions when I get back home next week.
You are highly organised with the parts storage!
Regards
Tony
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer

Mickoo.

This is not opening for me at the moment. Is there any change in the address?

I'm asking because I'm using your photos for all the pipe runs. A bit slow at the moment, but I'm working on the ejector right now. Some of the pipework has unions at the junctions - I'm working on a "T" union at the moment and it's proving very fiddly to make up out of (very small) brass tube. I'm wondering whether anyone on WT has a method for making up such unions from scratch. Straight pipe joints are fine - two wires wound around the rod and a spot of solder looks just right but joining another pipe run at right angles escapes me.

Any thoughts, anyone?

Brian
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Brian, it downloads for me all right but there is a SSL security certificate error and you have to click through it to download, your browser may be stopping at the error as some security software may think it's a hack or page re-route.

Try this link I've edited to copy the old paths and that might work better for you.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/106218673/9F.zip

This link also produces a SSL error for me too but might work better for you, failing that I'll whizz it up to my FTP and drop the link here for you to collect.

The best bet is to grab the whole zip file and then save to your hard drive and open them there, that'll save keep going back to Dropbox and grabbing it etc.
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Brian, it downloads for me all right but there is a SSL security certificate error and you have to click through it to download, your browser may be stopping at the error as some security software may think it's a hack or page re-route.

Thanks for your help, Mick.

I've now saved. The detail photos are life savers! More photos of the build when there's something to show.

There's so much pipework on a 9F that I'm not stuck for things to do yet, but will be continuing to experiment with the pipework unions unless some kind person has the answer.

Brian
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
FWIW Brian. I start with tube of the appropriate size, and drill a 0.5mm hole where the leg of the T goes. I then enlarge that hole to the necessary diameter and only then cut the tube to length. The main rod can be inserted and the union soldered in place, followed by redrilling the 'leg' hole half-way through, and then soldering the leg in place. As a refinement rebore some small dia nuts and solder to the T.

Probably teaching Grandma to suck eggs, but it works for me

Richard
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Probably teaching Grandma to suck eggs, but it works for me

Richard

Thanks Richard. Not teaching Grandma (cheeky bu99er!:p ) to suck eggs at all. That's a method I'll try when I'm next in the workshop. It makes more sense than my current method which has involved cutting little bits of tube and watching them stick to the end of the soldering iron! The pipework is .45mm and I have some thin bore tube which is exactly right for the brass wire to be a tight sliding fit.

Interestingly (or not) the straight leg of the union appears to be braised in place on the prototype with the pipe in to the "T" piece held by what appears to be a compression fitting of some sort, so the trick with a small nut may do the job there.

I've overcome the frustration with this build now and the detail work is proving to be challenging. Not much good in my book to build a kit where you have all the answers.

BTW, I've pinged a wash out plug across the workshop and it's fallen in to the modellers' black hole. If it turns up on anyone's bench please let me know. I'm hoping that I might be able to get hold of some lost wax castings at Telford......

Best regards, and thanks for the help, as ever.

Brian
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Hi Brian,

Can I remind you of the patented Dikitriki method of making washout plugs.....?

http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/ind...rk-side-finishing-off-lord-nelson.100/page-31
Post 604 onwards.
:)

Richard

Once again, that's very helpful........but I have an admission to make. I didn't mean washout plugs (this is clearly down to a total lack of knowledge of the prototype!) I meant mudhole doors. At least I think that's what I mean - there are four on the firebox, two on the boiler and one either side of the front of the ashpan. They are a bridge clamp cast in with the backing plate in the model but the bridge is bolted on top of the back plate in the prototype.

You know what you said about Grannies sucking eggs???????:headbang:

Brian
 

OzzyO

Western Thunderer
Why not just send off to D.J.H. for a replacement sprue?
OzzyO.

PS. scan the replacement order from before you write on it and send it off.
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Why not just send off to D.J.H. for a replacement sprue?
OzzyO.

PS. scan the replacement order from before you write on it and send it off.

Good thought and I've had replacement parts from DJH before. I won't get round to it before Telford, though, so if I can find any there I'll buy them. I also don't need the other castings on the sprue and a few mudhole doors in stock won't be a bad thing. If not, DJH here I come!

Brian
 

OzzyO

Western Thunderer
Good thought and I've had replacement parts from DJH before. I won't get round to it before Telford, though, so if I can find any there I'll buy them. I also don't need the other castings on the sprue and a few mudhole doors in stock won't be a bad thing. If not, DJH here I come!

Brian

Spare casting are always good, send off to D.J.H. and if they don't turn up before Telford you have a second option.

What day are you going?

OzzyO.

PS. I'm going on the Sat.
 
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