oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Hi Ozzy.
I'll be there on Saturday arriving at some time in the afternoon and all day Sunday.
DJH 9F 2-10-0
- Thread starter oldravendale
- Start date
Hi Ozzy.
I'll be there on Saturday arriving at some time in the afternoon and all day Sunday.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
At last a bit of an update.
For one reason and another I've been able to do very little in the workshop recently but have at least started on the copper and brass knitting known as the plumbing on the 9F. I don't remember who it was that advised the use of solder cream but since spending £22(!) on a syringe full of the stuff I've not looked back. The bending and shaping of the pipework takes me a long time. It's such an important part of the appearance of a 9F that it has to be as near perfect as I can make it.
In that respect the detail photos Mickoo took and which appear on this thread have been absolutely invaluable. In fact I've now pretty well completed the plumbing above the footplate. I also used Dikitriki's technique for joining pipework via a Tee joint. It's very difficult to see on the photos but it's there.
So, there follows a string of pics just to get you up to date with where I am now. Under footplate plumbing coming up.
Brian
For one reason and another I've been able to do very little in the workshop recently but have at least started on the copper and brass knitting known as the plumbing on the 9F. I don't remember who it was that advised the use of solder cream but since spending £22(!) on a syringe full of the stuff I've not looked back. The bending and shaping of the pipework takes me a long time. It's such an important part of the appearance of a 9F that it has to be as near perfect as I can make it.
In that respect the detail photos Mickoo took and which appear on this thread have been absolutely invaluable. In fact I've now pretty well completed the plumbing above the footplate. I also used Dikitriki's technique for joining pipework via a Tee joint. It's very difficult to see on the photos but it's there.
So, there follows a string of pics just to get you up to date with where I am now. Under footplate plumbing coming up.
Brian
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Very neat work, I've tried that solder paste 'Carrs 179' and have had zero success with it, it comes in a syringe and is such a dry paste it's almost impossible to get it to stick to the work area, to date I'm seriously underwhelmed with it, though I'm told it works better in conjunction with a RSU set up.
Clearly your work shows it can work very effectively
Clearly your work shows it can work very effectively
Dikitriki
Flying Squad
Hi Brian,
The pipework is important, and you are making a grand job of it. Glad to be of service with the T joint (spotted
).
I have a 9F in my shelf queen queue - in my case, they have to queue for years to achieve the status of shelf queen. Unfortunately, the Allan Harris wheels it is running on (think of the cost for a 9F
) don't go through my 31.5mm pointwork, so I have to extract them, which means removing the brake gear, and then turn them down to Slater's profile.
I have the profile tool, but not as yet the cojones...... Dear Colin......
Cheers
Richard
The pipework is important, and you are making a grand job of it. Glad to be of service with the T joint (spotted
).I have a 9F in my shelf queen queue - in my case, they have to queue for years to achieve the status of shelf queen. Unfortunately, the Allan Harris wheels it is running on (think of the cost for a 9F
) don't go through my 31.5mm pointwork, so I have to extract them, which means removing the brake gear, and then turn them down to Slater's profile.I have the profile tool, but not as yet the cojones
...... Dear Colin......Cheers
Richard
Dikitriki
Flying Squad
Very neat work, I've tried that solder paste 'Carrs 179' and have had zero success with it, it comes in a syringe and is such a dry paste it's almost impossible to get it to stick to the work area, to date I'm seriously underwhelmed with it, though I'm told it works better in conjunction with a RSU set up.
Clearly your work shows it can work very effectively
Mick,
Solder Cream, not solder Paste. 2 very different products.
Richard
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Richard,
I think Mick actually has the correct product as it is, indeed, in a syringe. As far as I know the solder paste is in a glass jar. However, as you say, the syringe stuff is the cream.
Keen eysesight to see the Tee joint! In fact the image of the copper wire running down from the Tee joint looks as though it goes around the rivets. That's an optical illusion for some reason as it's a straight wire going straight down and following the profile of the side of the boiler at it's joint with the smokebox.
Very neat work, I've tried that solder paste 'Carrs 179' and have had zero success with it, it comes in a syringe and is such a dry paste it's almost impossible to get it to stick to the work area, to date I'm seriously underwhelmed with it, though I'm told it works better in conjunction with a RSU set up.
Clearly your work shows it can work very effectively
You are correct that the cream is a pretty stiff consistency, Mick. I agree that it takes a little bit of practice to get it to work properly.
I found it perfect in the plumbing work. I drilled out mountings in to which I could insert the ends of the pipes. I then filled the drill holes with the solder, re-inserted the wire/pipe and applied heat from a conventional soldering iron running at about 300 degrees. In the vast majority of joints I've had to do no cleaning up and overall I've found it a much cleaner process than cream flux and regular 144 or 179 degree solder.
I wish I could show you how I use the stuff, Mick! Still cameras and a phone that just phones, I'm afraid.
Brian
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Richard it is a cream....so it says on the syringe, but it's more like a gritty tooth paste on close inspection, maybe it's gone off?
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Ahh in that context it'd probably work very well as the hole will retain the cream until it is heated
Quite ruddy right too, cameras take pictures, phones talk to people, you don't often see people talking to others with their cameras do you
right tools for the job an all that
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Gritty tooth paste sounds about right, Mick. Mine is just like that so I doubt yours has gone off. Is the problem in applying the solder or getting it to flow?
When I demonstrated this at club one of the users initially found it a problem. However, he got the hang of running it down a seam and was making good joints eventually. It's a very different technique from using conventional solder.
Brian
Buckjumper
Flying Squad
I always add a dash of (yellow) flux to the joint when using 179 cream, just to give the solder a boost. Zips along like a dream then.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Brian, bit of both really, it seems to flash off really quick and I end up with a dark grey joint that often has little strength. I've a second hand etches only Chowbent crab to play with when I can pull myself away from Flickr and CSX EVO's LOL so will try it again on bits of that.
I've also recently gone over to that safety flux and that makes solder flow like a dream and the excess left over simply jumps off the work when ever a soft glass fibre comm stick is waved at it!
I'll try Adrian's tip and add a little liquid flux to the equation and see how it goes
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Brian, bit of both really, it seems to flash off really quick and I end up with a dark grey joint that often has little strength. I've a second hand etches only Chowbent crab to play with when I can pull myself away from Flickr and CSX EVO's LOL so will try it again on bits of that.
I've also recently gone over to that safety flux and that makes solder flow like a dream and the excess left over simply jumps off the work when ever a soft glass fibre comm stick is waved at it!
I'll try Adrian's tip and add a little liquid flux to the equation and see how it goes
Useful comments, Mick.
You're correct about the relative ease of use because the drilled holes held the solder cream. I reckon it's worth you having another go, as you suggest, though, and the use of additional flux is a good idea. The only problem is the clean up needed afterwards. The safety flux may be easier to clean up though from your description, but I've no experience.
Where did you get the safety flux from? Is it just called safety flux? I wouldn't mind giving it a go! The stuff I'm using now goes green in about 5 minutes.
Brian
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Brian
http://www.7mmlocomotives.co.uk//in...n=com_virtuemart&Itemid=52&vmcchk=1&Itemid=52
Nothing goes green now, even unwashed for weeks later....just trialling a piece on the A1 tender.. the fumes also stop attacking Slaters wheels which only have to be in the same town as any other sort of flux to start rusting!
Quick delivery too, I'd heard it was good and so far it's made a huge difference to how solder flows and cleans up, it's clear now how Simon and others using this stuff keep their work so clean
http://www.7mmlocomotives.co.uk//in...n=com_virtuemart&Itemid=52&vmcchk=1&Itemid=52
Nothing goes green now, even unwashed for weeks later....just trialling a piece on the A1 tender..
the fumes also stop attacking Slaters wheels which only have to be in the same town as any other sort of flux to start rusting!Quick delivery too, I'd heard it was good and so far it's made a huge difference to how solder flows and cleans up, it's clear now how Simon and others using this stuff keep their work so clean
Scanlon
Western Thunderer
Hi Brian,
Lovely work on the pipework. I find BR Standards a joy to work on, the spaghetti only making the job more worthwhile. This was my effort on 71000
Many of the parts were replaced by Ragstone fittings. Are you aware Andy does a complete set of lost wax castings for the entire injector gear for a 9F?
Cheers
Roger
Lovely work on the pipework. I find BR Standards a joy to work on, the spaghetti only making the job more worthwhile. This was my effort on 71000
Many of the parts were replaced by Ragstone fittings. Are you aware Andy does a complete set of lost wax castings for the entire injector gear for a 9F?
Cheers
Roger
adrian
Flying Squad
That's a lot of spaghetti!! but it does look good. I'll be very pleased if I can get my Std4 to the same standard.
How did you do the lagged pipe work? It looks you've filed grooves with a triangular file in nickel rod which looks effective. Has it been painted yet? - just curious to see how it turns out when finished as I might try the same trick on the Std4.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Hi Roger.
That looks great! Is the "lagged" pipework white metal? I'm not sure that, with the amount of bending and correcting I've done white metal would have survived so I was pleased to see "Evening Star" pipework in brass and copper.
I'll have another look at the castings for the injectors. Actually I think that, overall, the DJH castings are pretty good and most for the pipework are in lost wax brass. In fact it's probably only the ejector that's white metal. I'm using Andy's copper, though - I bought a small roll of each diameter a year or so ago, "just in case" and am very glad I did so.
I agree. It's very satisfying but takes me an unconscionably long time to complete!
Best regards.
Brian
Scanlon
Western Thunderer
Hi Adrian and Brian,
The lagged pipe is the steam heat pipe from the steam heating valve (not present on a 9F) and is a two part Ragstone lost wax casting. It is intended for a Britannia but by careful heating I managed to modify it to run higher under the cab.
Adrian, a photo of 71000 painted
Also one of the BR Standard 4's I have piped up, I've done five in total
This is a DJB model and you will note I have not done anything to the steam heat pipe from the valve. I have seen photos on the net which appear to support that these pipes were not always lagged (it often breaks up even in preservation days) and admit to taking the easy way out on the model!
Cheers
Roger
The lagged pipe is the steam heat pipe from the steam heating valve (not present on a 9F) and is a two part Ragstone lost wax casting. It is intended for a Britannia but by careful heating I managed to modify it to run higher under the cab.
Adrian, a photo of 71000 painted
Also one of the BR Standard 4's I have piped up, I've done five in total
This is a DJB model and you will note I have not done anything to the steam heat pipe from the valve. I have seen photos on the net which appear to support that these pipes were not always lagged (it often breaks up even in preservation days) and admit to taking the easy way out on the model!
Cheers
Roger
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Interesting, Roger.
Certainly on most of the photos I have of 9Fs in black there are pipes above the footplate which are lagged. DJH provide for these with white metal which must, by definition, be weak for this purpose. However, the detail looks good. As I said, Evening Star does not have the lagging (good!) However, your later comment explains why some of the 9fs in service appear to not have it either. Obviously not down to my (somewhat rheumy) eyesight. Note to self - contact Ragstone when lagged pipework is required.
The Duke looks lovely. Good to see it on Someone's (who he?) layout!
Brian