7mm Finney Battle of Britain
- Thread starter mickoo
- Start date
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Graham,
I suspect you're only partially correct in your "presumably for 32mm modellers" comment. Don't forget Bulleid Pacifics have narrow frames: the hornguides extend outside the frames.
So it's possible that there is only one set of spacers and the design is narrowed by using slimmer than scale hornblocks.
Anyway, I'm sure Mick will be along shortly... Edit; aah, he just was!
Steph
I suspect you're only partially correct in your "presumably for 32mm modellers" comment. Don't forget Bulleid Pacifics have narrow frames: the hornguides extend outside the frames.
So it's possible that there is only one set of spacers and the design is narrowed by using slimmer than scale hornblocks.
Anyway, I'm sure Mick will be along shortly... Edit; aah, he just was!
Steph
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Moving on, some tender work, builds up nicely and quickly, cannot foresee any issues and hopefully complete by weeks end.
The interior is just dropped in to check the fit and needs to come out again for detailing.
Rear end.
Later in life tender lighting conduits were modified and this one has been done to suit, requires ladders and back up light to complete.
There's some odd rippling going on with the tender sides, you can't see it by eye but the photo clearly shows something amiss, I've a good mind to pull the sides off and run them through the rollers again, they're seam soldered on the rear corner but spot soldered along the base so it wont be too hard to achieve and it'll give me a chance to redo this corner to get a neater joint, again looks good in the flesh but clearly something not quite fitting correctly.
Overall views, getting there.
MD
The interior is just dropped in to check the fit and needs to come out again for detailing.
Rear end.
Later in life tender lighting conduits were modified and this one has been done to suit, requires ladders and back up light to complete.
There's some odd rippling going on with the tender sides, you can't see it by eye but the photo clearly shows something amiss, I've a good mind to pull the sides off and run them through the rollers again, they're seam soldered on the rear corner but spot soldered along the base so it wont be too hard to achieve and it'll give me a chance to redo this corner to get a neater joint, again looks good in the flesh but clearly something not quite fitting correctly.
Overall views, getting there.
MD
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Having seen the rear of the tender are you going to use the MV lenses in the lamps?
I'm surprised the lamps are non-working
, though it would take some function mapping in DCC given the plethora of SR route codes and if, of course, you want to runs trains in the dark....
I'm surprised the lamps are non-working
, though it would take some function mapping in DCC given the plethora of SR route codes and if, of course, you want to runs trains in the dark....
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Thank you,
Look forward to seeing you at Reading then, when you come to collect yours?
Quick brush up from today, no photos, the sun went down an hour early
Spent most of the day on the tender and it doesn't really look any further on than the above. The sides niggled me and truth be told they were off before the ink had dried in my last post, out with the rollers and they were flattened and re rolled. A couple of hours tweaking, cleaning and polishing and the ripples were gone, no idea how they got there and were so fine you couldn't even feel them.
The rest of the day was spent forming the coal space and seam soldering it all up and finally fitting the internal ribs, look nice, fiddly to fit and even harder to clean up for the instruction photos. On reflection I don't think there's any easy way to fit them or a better way to design them to fit easier, it's one of those chores you just have to get on with.
MD
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Small update, tender progressing well and should be all but done by the end of the weekend, will post some better shots tomorrow in the daylight, but a quick one from this evening.
A few bits to add to the front end but the bulk is there, takes a while to get your head around the lockers and recesses but eventually it all falls into place.
The deflector etch arrived today, passed on the first pass so handing over to the sales department for further progression.
The 4500 gallon tender chassis for the Slaters insulated axleboxes also turned up today, again first check shows no errors and the axle boxes dropped right in, took longer to clean the cusps off and I only did 1/3 that were really essential. I'll add the springs and stop screws tomorrow and post some photos.
Finally the wheel overlays arrived, they look great, sadly the host wheels have more issues than I at first envisaged which make the fitment less than perfect, not quite sure how I'm going to get over the issues so will let them ferment for a bit.
MD
A few bits to add to the front end but the bulk is there, takes a while to get your head around the lockers and recesses but eventually it all falls into place.
The deflector etch arrived today, passed on the first pass so handing over to the sales department for further progression.
The 4500 gallon tender chassis for the Slaters insulated axleboxes also turned up today, again first check shows no errors and the axle boxes dropped right in, took longer to clean the cusps off and I only did 1/3 that were really essential. I'll add the springs and stop screws tomorrow and post some photos.
Finally the wheel overlays arrived, they look great, sadly the host wheels have more issues than I at first envisaged which make the fitment less than perfect, not quite sure how I'm going to get over the issues so will let them ferment for a bit.
MD
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Ok, daylight and time for some photos, first off the Slaters insulated axlebox chassis.
The whole remit behind this was simplicity, no soldering or lining up of axleboxes and the such like and to be fair for a tender that's probably all the complexity we need. total time from cutting from etch to rolling sprung chassis was 30 mins but a fair bit of that was cleaning the cusps (I went back and did the rest
) drilling and tapping the holes for the adjustment screws.
So without further ado the photos.
From above;
Simple fold up construction for the sides and for each horn cheek, drill and tap and insert screws, they're the wrong wheels but for indication purposes, are just fine.
From below;
Again, a nice easy fold up along half etched lines, the middle axle boxes have dimples drilled to accept the spring, in reality not necessary, the gap between screw and axle box at full extension is small enough (1.0 mm) to not let the spring slip out.
End view;
Total axle box movement is 1.0 mm which should be more than enough I think.
Test fit into existing model;
Yup that works
I've not added the etched cross members but they all line up and fit well and to maximize production space on the sheet will be etched inside the main chassis top section, this has the added bonus that once removed there will be two nice oblong holes to bring the pick up cables out from below into the main tender area, just adds a bit more flexibility in the design for cable routing.
Generally I don't add bits inside bits but this saves so much real estate and etch size that it's a no brainer, all of which reduces costs and as noted above the hole allow greater flexibility with your pick up wiring. I will radius the corners of the openings, more for aesthetics than anything else, you know, that 'if it looks right' sort of thing.
So, did it achieve what I set out to accomplish, absolutely, with limited effort and tools I had a working fully sprung tender chassis in a fraction of the time it'd take by normal methods. It's not everyone's cup of tea but it suits my needs very well.
The next stage is to turn down some 4.0/5.0 mm ID/OD tube to fit inside the insulated axle boxes to convert them from 3/16" to 5/32" axles.
Enjoy.
The whole remit behind this was simplicity, no soldering or lining up of axleboxes and the such like and to be fair for a tender that's probably all the complexity we need. total time from cutting from etch to rolling sprung chassis was 30 mins but a fair bit of that was cleaning the cusps (I went back and did the rest
) drilling and tapping the holes for the adjustment screws.So without further ado the photos.
From above;
Simple fold up construction for the sides and for each horn cheek, drill and tap and insert screws, they're the wrong wheels but for indication purposes, are just fine.
From below;
Again, a nice easy fold up along half etched lines, the middle axle boxes have dimples drilled to accept the spring, in reality not necessary, the gap between screw and axle box at full extension is small enough (1.0 mm) to not let the spring slip out.
End view;
Total axle box movement is 1.0 mm which should be more than enough I think.
Test fit into existing model;
Yup that works
I've not added the etched cross members but they all line up and fit well and to maximize production space on the sheet will be etched inside the main chassis top section, this has the added bonus that once removed there will be two nice oblong holes to bring the pick up cables out from below into the main tender area, just adds a bit more flexibility in the design for cable routing.
Generally I don't add bits inside bits but this saves so much real estate and etch size that it's a no brainer, all of which reduces costs and as noted above the hole allow greater flexibility with your pick up wiring. I will radius the corners of the openings, more for aesthetics than anything else, you know, that 'if it looks right' sort of thing.
So, did it achieve what I set out to accomplish, absolutely, with limited effort and tools I had a working fully sprung tender chassis in a fraction of the time it'd take by normal methods. It's not everyone's cup of tea but it suits my needs very well.
The next stage is to turn down some 4.0/5.0 mm ID/OD tube to fit inside the insulated axle boxes to convert them from 3/16" to 5/32" axles.
Enjoy.
Last edited:
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Bearing conversion, first off turn some 5.0 mm OD tube, or more importantly 4.0 mm ID so that it is a snug fit into the existing bearing.
Next step is to tin it, in this case 150° and then fit the bearing.
I left a small internal lip, some where for the solder to puddle when fixing the two together and fluxed liberally. We're not looking for a high strength bond here but a retainer and conductivity bond.
With a very hot iron (400°) and a small sliver of solder get in and out quick, the nylon is quite resilient and the thin walled brass tube and bronze bearing take heat very well and very quickly so it takes seconds to fuse the two together.
Not very neat but neatness is not a primary goal here, once cooled off part off with a fret saw and smooth off on abrasive paper of your choice, and then repeat as many times as required.
I already had the 5/32" axles and wheels from the previous chassis in the kit and you can of course obtain Slaters Bulleid wheels and axles in 3/16" so do not need to do this, but to save costs and basically a redundant set of wheels I sleeved the bearings accordingly.
Thin walled tube diameter is nominal at best and this tube measures out just over 4.0mm, about 4.1mm or so, which means the axle is a loose fit in the bearing, not good enough for a coupled wheel but certainly good enough for a tender wheel. If you wanted a better fit then simply insert the next size down tube and bore out, but you'd end up with a wall thickness on the inner tube of about 0.05mm, the other alternative is thicker walled 1.0mm tube as opposed to the 0.5mm I've used. The theory is sound but the practice could be tweaked depending on your wishes.
On the left the original bearing, on the right the sleeved one and around the outside the 5/32" wheel and axle.
MD
Next step is to tin it, in this case 150° and then fit the bearing.
I left a small internal lip, some where for the solder to puddle when fixing the two together and fluxed liberally. We're not looking for a high strength bond here but a retainer and conductivity bond.
With a very hot iron (400°) and a small sliver of solder get in and out quick, the nylon is quite resilient and the thin walled brass tube and bronze bearing take heat very well and very quickly so it takes seconds to fuse the two together.
Not very neat but neatness is not a primary goal here, once cooled off part off with a fret saw and smooth off on abrasive paper of your choice, and then repeat as many times as required.
I already had the 5/32" axles and wheels from the previous chassis in the kit and you can of course obtain Slaters Bulleid wheels and axles in 3/16" so do not need to do this, but to save costs and basically a redundant set of wheels I sleeved the bearings accordingly.
Thin walled tube diameter is nominal at best and this tube measures out just over 4.0mm, about 4.1mm or so, which means the axle is a loose fit in the bearing, not good enough for a coupled wheel but certainly good enough for a tender wheel. If you wanted a better fit then simply insert the next size down tube and bore out, but you'd end up with a wall thickness on the inner tube of about 0.05mm, the other alternative is thicker walled 1.0mm tube as opposed to the 0.5mm I've used. The theory is sound but the practice could be tweaked depending on your wishes.
On the left the original bearing, on the right the sleeved one and around the outside the 5/32" wheel and axle.
MD
Martin Finney
Member
Hi Mick,
You can simplify this if you use this K&S brass tube which is widely available.
3/16" (4.76mm) (KS8129)
It has the correct OD, so no need for a lathe and the correct 5/32" bore.
The extra etches look fine.
Regards
Martin
You can simplify this if you use this K&S brass tube which is widely available.
3/16" (4.76mm) (KS8129)
It has the correct OD, so no need for a lathe and the correct 5/32" bore.
The extra etches look fine.
Regards
Martin
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Martin,
Brilliant, thank you very much for the tip off, order going out next week for said item, I've only done one as a test but for the rest on the final chassis I'll use this tube
Re etches, all I did was modify your original artwork around the axle box area, no need to re-invent the wheel when what you had was fit for purpose, hence it dropping right in to the rest of the chassis with ease
Mick D
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Off piste someone asked how I planned to paint under the reservoir tank area so I thought I'd explain a little.
First off build the tender as per the instructions, you only need to keep the front edge of the tank support clean and solder free.
Next make the tanks as a separate item, rather than fix them now I used the feed pipe as one of the fixing points, primarily we're only interested in getting paint that might be seen through the little gaps between the tanks.
The little swan neck in the feed pipe allows it to be poked through the hole and soldered from below with a big blob of solder on an unpainted surface, I'll also add some Loctite 480 on the bottom of the tanks to hold them to the supports but to be fair, the cover is a tight fit and will hold them reasonably securely anyway. The extended bend below the tank top give the impression of the pipe going straight down, a bend right under the tank top may show and look wrong, the pipe should appear to go straight down.
Having sprayed the area under the tanks and the tanks themselves it's a case of adding the tanks and securing, next spray the underside of the cover and fix to the tender, the cover has four small feet and fits tight up against the rear coal space wall, you'll note a small hole in the tank top near the tank support, the idea being to dab solder through this and onto the underside of the foot to hold it in place, the rear wall will be liberally coated in 480 which should hold it secure and once done, just paint the rest of the model.
Enjoy
MD
First off build the tender as per the instructions, you only need to keep the front edge of the tank support clean and solder free.
Next make the tanks as a separate item, rather than fix them now I used the feed pipe as one of the fixing points, primarily we're only interested in getting paint that might be seen through the little gaps between the tanks.
The little swan neck in the feed pipe allows it to be poked through the hole and soldered from below with a big blob of solder on an unpainted surface, I'll also add some Loctite 480 on the bottom of the tanks to hold them to the supports but to be fair, the cover is a tight fit and will hold them reasonably securely anyway. The extended bend below the tank top give the impression of the pipe going straight down, a bend right under the tank top may show and look wrong, the pipe should appear to go straight down.
Having sprayed the area under the tanks and the tanks themselves it's a case of adding the tanks and securing, next spray the underside of the cover and fix to the tender, the cover has four small feet and fits tight up against the rear coal space wall, you'll note a small hole in the tank top near the tank support, the idea being to dab solder through this and onto the underside of the foot to hold it in place, the rear wall will be liberally coated in 480 which should hold it secure and once done, just paint the rest of the model.
Enjoy
MD
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Well just over a month since the last update and despite a deathly web silence, work progresses on the Bulleid, mostly the supplementary etches and a little work on the model.
Most of the time has been on getting it to go and making sure it keeps doing so without shorts, the power unit is a Canon 1833 with a SDMP 40L gearbox, it's tight in there due to the narrow frames of the Bulleid, in an ideal world they could do with being wider by 1-2mm, prototypical width as near as matters, but it is what it is.
There is just enough room for the motor to flex and move with the suspension and the wire torsion spring keeps it all in place, it has enough give to allow the motor to float but rigid enough to prevent the motor rotating under heavy loads.
Thoughts turned to cleaning up some of the bright work, I'm not a big fan of copper and brass paint, preferring the real medium, cleaned or distressed accordingly, the idea is to give the impression of a reasonably clean but working engine and now we see why it's important to make sure we get as much solder off as possible.
There's still a fair bit of solder on the larger pipes and a bit on one of the injectors, so after Reading these'll get a nice clean up and the weathering added back on. I could add a bit more dark weathering to hide the solder but I think it'll jar with the rest of the effect.
Up front the cylinder cock fittings and pipework was cleaned up.
And finally, some more work on the backhead, again the same ideal, cleanish but working engine, there's a fair bit more to do, some rust and stains and some polished highlights to add in as well as gauge faces etc, but the bulk background finish is about there. Since the photo the AWS system has been fitted and the paint is drying, still to add....as an enthusiasm feature as we call it as work.....the water gauge light fittings, these'll bolt onto the right side of the water gauges with conduit up and into the roof space.
There's a few scuffs on the backhead plate work but these need blending in and the floor really needs a work over to represent oil and grit stained steel plate.
Quick check in the cab and yes it still fits.
The old frame work wasn't quite right so out it came and the production etch put in, which means filling the bend lines and other holes that might be exposed.
In hindsight it would of been easier and significantly faster if I had simply taken the whole rear wall off the cab to work on the overlay; ideally you would add the overlay long before you got to the forming stage, though filling the bend slots before bending so you can add the overlay, kind of defeats the point of bend lines.
It's probably best to anneal the material first, then fill the bend lines, add the overlay and then bend up.
Still to do, well for starters, put it all together for tomorrow; then if there's any time left finish the two tender rear ladders, though I suspect only one will be completed in time. Then it's a case of packing it all away, some supper and an early night.
Post Reading, some pick ups on the engine and tender, a bit more light weathering on the chassis whislt the bodies are away for painting and looking at the cylinder shot, an attempt at updating the cross head from a SR to a BR type.
MD
Most of the time has been on getting it to go and making sure it keeps doing so without shorts, the power unit is a Canon 1833 with a SDMP 40L gearbox, it's tight in there due to the narrow frames of the Bulleid, in an ideal world they could do with being wider by 1-2mm, prototypical width as near as matters, but it is what it is.
There is just enough room for the motor to flex and move with the suspension and the wire torsion spring keeps it all in place, it has enough give to allow the motor to float but rigid enough to prevent the motor rotating under heavy loads.
Thoughts turned to cleaning up some of the bright work, I'm not a big fan of copper and brass paint, preferring the real medium, cleaned or distressed accordingly, the idea is to give the impression of a reasonably clean but working engine and now we see why it's important to make sure we get as much solder off as possible.
There's still a fair bit of solder on the larger pipes and a bit on one of the injectors, so after Reading these'll get a nice clean up and the weathering added back on. I could add a bit more dark weathering to hide the solder but I think it'll jar with the rest of the effect.
Up front the cylinder cock fittings and pipework was cleaned up.
And finally, some more work on the backhead, again the same ideal, cleanish but working engine, there's a fair bit more to do, some rust and stains and some polished highlights to add in as well as gauge faces etc, but the bulk background finish is about there. Since the photo the AWS system has been fitted and the paint is drying, still to add....as an enthusiasm feature as we call it as work.....the water gauge light fittings, these'll bolt onto the right side of the water gauges with conduit up and into the roof space.
There's a few scuffs on the backhead plate work but these need blending in and the floor really needs a work over to represent oil and grit stained steel plate.
Quick check in the cab and yes it still fits.
The old frame work wasn't quite right so out it came and the production etch put in, which means filling the bend lines and other holes that might be exposed.
In hindsight it would of been easier and significantly faster if I had simply taken the whole rear wall off the cab to work on the overlay; ideally you would add the overlay long before you got to the forming stage, though filling the bend slots before bending so you can add the overlay, kind of defeats the point of bend lines.
It's probably best to anneal the material first, then fill the bend lines, add the overlay and then bend up.
Still to do, well for starters, put it all together for tomorrow; then if there's any time left finish the two tender rear ladders, though I suspect only one will be completed in time. Then it's a case of packing it all away, some supper and an early night.
Post Reading, some pick ups on the engine and tender, a bit more light weathering on the chassis whislt the bodies are away for painting and looking at the cylinder shot, an attempt at updating the cross head from a SR to a BR type.
MD
Last edited:
Silverystreaks
Western Thunderer
Mick
Unless I've missed something you have fitted insulated axle boxes into the tender ....what is your method for using these for electrical pickups
Bob
Unless I've missed something you have fitted insulated axle boxes into the tender ....what is your method for using these for electrical pickups
Bob
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Split axles and pig tails from the brass bush inside the nylon bearing to bus bars on the tender frame, thence cables across to the loco and pick up the wiper collection from there as well.
Currently the tender chassis is as out of the box, the insulated one gets fitted after Reading as I don't have time to strip all of the brakes off the original and transpose over, set up and paint in time.
I'll post some photos up as I do it in the next few weeks.
Like this but a little more elegant.
MD
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
You could always touch the solder up with a thin chalky white to represent a slight leak which will also tone down the silver metal effect. Or use the colours below.
And a light track dirt colour on the solder joint alongside the truck. If you add a touch of oxide to the mix it'll blend with the copper.
In service I suspect the cleanest copper would be that which could be reached easily.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Dry brushing gunmetal on chequerplate or steel plate will create the worn look.
2-Bil
Western Thunderer
The Bulleid Society website has a mesmerising 360 degree view of Blackmoor Vale's cab.Maybe it,ll prove additional inspiration when weathering that superb Backhead? It,s been a real pleasure watching a fine kit and fine workmanship combine in mostly? happy union.Thank you.