michael mott
Western Thunderer
Wow Giles you do have a way with printing skills that looks amazing.
Michael
Michael
Giles' misc. Work bench.
- Thread starter Giles
- Start date
Giles
Western Thunderer
I'm still having an extremely hard time with this post-Covid issue at the moment, but one of the few things I'm able to do is draw, and light modelling. I've been working on the high boiler (original height) version, and printed off a modified cab, boiler unit and a separate newly drawn back with buffer beam.
Shown above is the reverser in situ.
You can see how slim the back sheet is. The platework is 0.5mm, plus angle. Extremely thin for a print of that size
The detail and surface has come out very well - it hasn't been cleaned up in any way - although the reverse side has had all the support marks filed off.
I consider this a reasonably fine model, to be handled as such. It is strong enough and resilient enough by that criteria, but not resilient enough for 'toy' type handling. Indeed I've already accidently dropped both these components accidentally without damage. The resin is slightly flexible which helps enormously.
Giles
Western Thunderer
Now Simon is addicted to printing.........
I've been looking at printing in as large a 'unit' as possible, without losing any detail. I'm trying the boiler/chimney/tank/cab as a single print, including blow-down and balance pipe. The first effort came out this afternoon, and was much better than anticipated, though not perfect. It needed two more supports towards the back of the cab roof
I've been looking at printing in as large a 'unit' as possible, without losing any detail. I'm trying the boiler/chimney/tank/cab as a single print, including blow-down and balance pipe. The first effort came out this afternoon, and was much better than anticipated, though not perfect. It needed two more supports towards the back of the cab roof
michael mott
Western Thunderer
Wow Giles that picture is almost enough to want me to learn all about 3D printing and so on..... but I am realistic and know that I am more suited to mucking about with all sorts of materials, so i look on with envy at the results you are achieving!
Michael
Michael
Rob R
Western Thunderer
Giles, as a quarry loco I would say that the cab roof is on the money.
Osgood
Western Thunderer
This poses an interesting ponderable:
I wonder how the time taken to cut shape and manipulate materials into a model would compare with the time taken to design and draw up 3D printing files to create the same model?
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
I would love to be getting involved in it. There’s so much potential there. If I were 20 years younger…
Having spent a good proportion of my working life glued to a computer monitor, I rather like working with my hands. I tried to learn rudimentary 3D when it wasn’t really mainstream outside engineering industry (we are talking 30 years ago now
) and my head couldn’t work it out. It was trying to manipulate a three-dimensional object on a two-dimensional screen. Now, my brain cell simply won't absorb new tools like it used to.I think the repeatability the technology provides is a huge bonus. Look at the spring and axlebox stuff I have been lucky enough to work with on those GER coaches. In the olden days, if I couldn’t find anything from the trade, I’d have had to look at making a master and getting resin or metal copies made. Instead, an hour from me at the Mac producing a basic scale drawing and quite a lot more time spent by someone younger than me turning that into tiny 3D prints and there we go.
I do worry, though, there is a tendency to become reliant on the technology. I see it happening in the plastic modelling world right now. Before, a replacement or corrected part would be cobbled up from raw materials, or adjusting something from the scrap box. Now, it’s knocked up in CAD and printed. It’s still modelling, but it feels like "proper" skills are becoming slightly eroded.
I still think the tech is a good thing, though.
simond
Western Thunderer
I was pondering the same question yesterday evening. If it is a simple "cut out a piece of material and drill three holes in it", then trad will be quicker, but if it requires 5 different operations, (like turning, offset drilling, cross drilling and maybe a bit milling off) then it will be much quicker and (depending on your skill and patience) possibly more accurate too.
I printed this yesterday, I could have turned it from wood and brass, and it might have looked better, but it'sgoing inside the wheelhouse of the puffer I built in 2010 (yes, the wheels turn slow - when they turn at all) and it simply was never worth doing "the proper way" as it would have been a massive amount of work.
I guess, had I ever seen one that looked "about right" in a model shop, I'd have bought it.
And even now, I'm annoyed with myself that I didn't model the oil lamp housing on the side, and the whopping big nuts to hold it down...
next time, if there is a next time...!
I printed this yesterday, I could have turned it from wood and brass, and it might have looked better, but it'sgoing inside the wheelhouse of the puffer I built in 2010 (yes, the wheels turn slow - when they turn at all) and it simply was never worth doing "the proper way" as it would have been a massive amount of work.
I guess, had I ever seen one that looked "about right" in a model shop, I'd have bought it.
And even now, I'm annoyed with myself that I didn't model the oil lamp housing on the side, and the whopping big nuts to hold it down...
next time, if there is a next time...!
@Giles fantastic to see the development and detail on a relatively low cost and accessible machine and free software. Looking at the print striations, from the orientation of your print, and where you show support contact points, do you have a photo of the support structure please? I think that will help people understand the post print process and also the consideration of printability in parts.
You certainly are a catalyst for change, making things seem much more possible. Great recent video too.
@Heather Kay i completely understand the notion of “proper” skills and value. As Gerald Wingrove, one of the foremost model makers in any strand of modelling, wrote here
“I see nothing in the finished result that would indicate that it was created other than by the traditional methods, and I think this is the key to the craft, what you create should be of itself - the subject - how you got there should in no way be apparent, and the 3D printing process used with skill, would appear to offer this way forward.”
It is a fantastic flexible tool, which has transformed one aspect of my day job and should be seen alongside chemical etching (multi layer 2D cad) and CNC machining (4D cad) as enabling us all to make the most esoteric prototypes imaginable to whatever degree of accuracy we choose, and share the outcomes with others if so inclined. Amazing times to be a model maker.
Oll an gwella
You certainly are a catalyst for change, making things seem much more possible. Great recent video too.
@Heather Kay i completely understand the notion of “proper” skills and value. As Gerald Wingrove, one of the foremost model makers in any strand of modelling, wrote here
“I see nothing in the finished result that would indicate that it was created other than by the traditional methods, and I think this is the key to the craft, what you create should be of itself - the subject - how you got there should in no way be apparent, and the 3D printing process used with skill, would appear to offer this way forward.”
It is a fantastic flexible tool, which has transformed one aspect of my day job and should be seen alongside chemical etching (multi layer 2D cad) and CNC machining (4D cad) as enabling us all to make the most esoteric prototypes imaginable to whatever degree of accuracy we choose, and share the outcomes with others if so inclined. Amazing times to be a model maker.
Oll an gwella
Giles
Western Thunderer
It is interesting...... the Tattoo has taken a couple of hundred hour's to get this far (with cylinders, steam brake, backhead etc...) as I've found out more about the original loco(s) as what has changed through the years..... one could knock up something rough quite quickly course, but that is not the point for me. I have scratch-built a number of locos, and although I have been happy with them, I cannot achieve the level of detail and accuracy that I can with printing (for instance small hex heads). It also works for me perhaps because I come the scratchbuild background - rather than simply drawing on computer (3D being newly learned).
On the whole, i find printing is an excellent addition to the range of tools available to us, expanding my abilities and indeed skills - which is always useful!
This is the supports structure!
On the whole, i find printing is an excellent addition to the range of tools available to us, expanding my abilities and indeed skills - which is always useful!
This is the supports structure!
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
I quite agree. I didn’t intend my earlier comment to be in any way negative towards 3D. It was more that I have noted a tendency of some to fall back on printing something where perhaps "old fashioned" methods would be easier or simpler. As I said, if were 20 years younger I’d be all over the technology!
michael mott
Western Thunderer
Heather I went through exactly the same frustration when I tried to learn "Rhino" then "sketch-up" back in the late 90's and early 2000's If I was much younger and getting started I would also embrace the tools. I also think that adding it as another "brick in the wall" is a great addition to the modelling community.I tried to learn rudimentary 3D when it wasn’t really mainstream outside engineering industry (we are talking 30 years ago now
Giles looking at the photograph of the support structure my question is; does the software generate the support matrix or do you need to add that yourself when deciding on what to print? also what happens to all that material that is used for the support afterwards? (shows how little I know about the process)
New Medicine regime is really messing with my equilibrium today....
Michael
Giles
Western Thunderer
You can get the software to generate the support automatically - however, particularly on something like this - you end up with supports where they will do unnecessary surface damage, so you then need to move, erase, and add supports to get them in the optimum positions to do the job well, without compromising the finished article. A bit of practise in knowing what to look out for helps!
The supports are basically scrap afterwards........
The supports are basically scrap afterwards........
Giles
Western Thunderer
This is the standard Tattoo printed in one piece, without problems. The cab back sheet and rear buffer beam is a separate element, but there hasn't been any real losses to this.
Inside the cab - the handbrake still has the remnants of a support not sufficiently trimmed. Handbrake and reverser are printed in situ. Backhead and fittings are a separate one-piece print as an experiment. It works fine, but isn't much easier (to trim supports) than separate pieces, so I'm not sure if we will continue with a one-piece backhead.
Inside the cab - the handbrake still has the remnants of a support not sufficiently trimmed. Handbrake and reverser are printed in situ. Backhead and fittings are a separate one-piece print as an experiment. It works fine, but isn't much easier (to trim supports) than separate pieces, so I'm not sure if we will continue with a one-piece backhead.
simond
Western Thunderer
This is very lovely!
I think one of the elements that has given me much pleasure in the first few prints with my new toy is the ease of adding repetitive, or fiddly detail.
Rows of identical rivets with perfect alignment & spacing, and entirely believable hex nuts with a bit of the screw showing through, with or without washer under the nut…
It rather reminds me of my early days at work (we’re talking 1983 or so), when 2/2.5D CAD was just becoming a thing, my scruffy and eraser-marked drawings were suddenly transformed into something pristine.
atb
Simon
I think one of the elements that has given me much pleasure in the first few prints with my new toy is the ease of adding repetitive, or fiddly detail.
Rows of identical rivets with perfect alignment & spacing, and entirely believable hex nuts with a bit of the screw showing through, with or without washer under the nut…
It rather reminds me of my early days at work (we’re talking 1983 or so), when 2/2.5D CAD was just becoming a thing, my scruffy and eraser-marked drawings were suddenly transformed into something pristine.
atb
Simon
michael mott
Western Thunderer
Can you imagine the injection molding tooling costs to do this... I can't because I don't think it would be possible to do it in as few pieces as you have done Giles.
Michael