7mm Gladiator NER/LNER/BR G5

[Rob Pulham]

Modelling time at home (in Wakefield) has been a bit limited recently due to a lot going on at work which will hopefully start to ease now. What time I have had has seen further progress on the G5 to the point of needing to fit pickups and brake pull rods and here's where I have run into a few snags and would like to ask for thoughts.

Here are a few photos of where we are up to.









Now to the snags, there are holes in the frames for plunger pickups and I had planned to use some slaters ones that I have in stock but the rear ones cannot be fitted due to how the motor sits. That plan scuppered I then thought perhaps a piece of PCB across between the frames with some phosphor bronze strip running on top of the wheels which in theory might be hidden from view by the valances/sandboxes.

That idea was scuppered too as soon as I put the body on and realised that the PCB would be completely visible under the boiler - you can already see the compensation beams quite clearly which is far from ideal but that how the kit is designed and as it's supposed to be out of the box I am not about to start altering it.

Up until seeing Roger's post where he's using Gladiator pick ups, my next plan was to use the Slaters plungers on the front wheels and to short out all the wheels to the crank pins and use the coupling rods to transfer current from the rear wheels but the jury is out.

My next snag is the operating mechanism for the brakes which has kindly spun itself around almost upside down in the photos (Bah!) is quite a chunky affair and when turned the right way up and in what should be it's working position it severely restricts the swing of the bogie and I am concerned that it might not go around any sort of curve as it is.

Any ideas on how might get around either or both of these snags would be greatly appreciated because I really would like to get this finished.

 

[Scale7JB]

Hi Rob,

Do you plan to run the G5 on DC or DCC?

On mine because of all the valve gear I put the plunger pickups on the bogie wheels only. To be fair it was pretty hopeless initially until I put a stay-alive on the chip, and now it runs very nicely indeed!

With regard to the brake pull rod, the swing on the bogie was okay, but then I guess I'm not using particularly tight radii.

JB.

 

[Rob Pulham]

Thanks Jonathan,

To be honest I don't know because this one isn't for me. Mine would be DCC.

Presumably yours was a Connoisseur rather than Gladiator G5? I ask because the Gladiator bogie has compensation beams too, so I am not sure whether there would be enough room left to fit plungers.

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

Hi Rob,

Have you space above the footplate inside the tanks to fit wire wiper pickups on the rear drivers? That is how I manage my 0-4-4 tanks where the gearbox takes up most of the between frames space. You should still be able to get plungers onto the front wheels under the smokebox leaving compensation beams free and space for the slidebars etc.

Additionally you could make the bogie pick up. Plungers are easy to fit but need a lot of fine tuning to get them to work without stopping the wheels turning. I have done it with home made guides and very soft springs. See my thread on a simple loco for the plunger design.

Alternatively you could do split axles on the bogie with no friction at all. Would you be able to replace the brass bearings on your bogie with nylon ones? Pickup could be from loose collars running on the axle.

Ian.

 

[Rob Pulham]

Thanks for the suggestions Ian, I will have a look at the wiper from the rear idea.

 

[warren haywood]

I think it will be having DCC rob
Looking good mate

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

Hi Rob,

I took a couple of snaps this afternoon to illustrate what I said earlier.


This is my Caley rank without the body which shows the pickups inside the tank. It's just a bit of copper clad screwed onto the top frame spacer with brass wire pickups bent like a paper clip with a loop to run on the wheel back. I screwed it on with a couple of screws to make it easier to adjust and paint. There are plungers on the front axle, you can just see the wire going to them. The slidebars are very sketchy as there is not a lot of visibility behind the splashers.


The bogie from my GB&K tank from below showing the plungers. The spring inside the brass tube is very soft and the pickups do not exert enough braking force to stop the wheels turning.
The unusual axle shape was one of my early means of making fine standard O axles
into S7 ones by sawing in half, boring and locktiting onto a bit of 1/8" rod.

Ian.

 

[Rob Pulham]

Thanks Ian,

As they say a picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[Rob Pulham]

It's looking very much like Ian's suggestion will fit the bill. Sadly I have encountered another snag. The backhead is too wide for the space it needs to fit in so a filing session will be in order. I don't plan to fix the back head in place so that it can be painted separately but it needs to fit once painted.

 

[Rob Pulham]

It looks like I may have an answer to the brake pull/bogie swing problem too.

In a quiet moment I wondered how Jim McGeown had got around it and downloaded his instructions for the G5 he puts a joggle in the end of the linkage - see snip below (shown for illustrative purposed only.

He also provides the link that goes up into the cab which by coincidence I scratch built yesterday afternoon. Photos as soon as I see if there is enough distance between the frames and the valence to replicate what Jim has done.

 

[Rob Pulham]

The kink trick worked and leaves much more in the way of a turning circle. Next step is fitting the pick ups.



Not the clearest photo but it shows you the kink in the brake rod.




Taking a leaf from JB's book I also added half nuts and tube to represent the adjuster - I shouldn't have but I couldn't resist adding the detail.



I also thickened up the pivot on the opposite side in line with photos in Hooles NER Locos book and added a filed down cast crankpin nut.

 

[Rob Pulham]

The G5 made further progress last week in the usual one forward two back fashion. In the last photos I had soldered the PCB plate to the frames to fit wipers as Ian had kindly suggested.

I started by fitting the plunger on the two front wheels without issue, then BAH! When I came to fit the motor (before adding the pickups themselves), I couldn't get it in without removing the PCB plate again.

Moving swiftly on to Plan B. Which was, to cut a short length of rectangular tube across the corners giving me a pair of odd leg angled sections.

These I drilled and then soldered 10ba brass nuts to the underside allowing the PCB plate to be removable. - I hope to have it running to take along to the Shildon Group's test track on Saturday.

 

[Rob Pulham]

On Thursday evening I was in high hopes that I would be delivering the G5 to Warren for painting either tonight or tomorrow. Sadly my visit to Shildon to test it put paid to that idea.

The first and minor snag was encountered when I came to fit the buffer and found that the corner plates of the chassis that fit behind the buffer beam sit squarely across where the shank of the buffer protrudes meaning that I will need to cut a slot in each to accommodate the shank/nut. While I appreciate that I have swapped the supplied NER pattern buffers for group standard types I would have had the same problem whichever way I went and David if he reads this might want to amend the instructions to point this out earlier in the build.

Next and although it had run on my rolling road I couldn't get anything out of the chassis with the body on and each time I popped it on the track it stopped another loco going around indicating a short. Some peering around underneath later I think thought that I had identified the problem. So off came the body to try the chassis on it's own. It promptly lit up like the 5th of November with sparks all over.... Then while trying to identify what was shorting I managed to break one of the motor wires off and no soon had Graham Habberley kindly solder it back on that I broke the other one.

That's what testing is for and now I have identified that I need mark III rear pick up and I need to extend the rods supporting the outside brake gear outwards a bit to allow more clearance for the wheels and to clear one of the coupling rods which was catching. Onwards and upwards

 

[Rob Pulham]

Due to health issues, last week was a bit of a bust modelling wise but I plan to get back on the G5 trail tonight.

 

[Genghis]

Thanks for the heads up re the buffer problem and the other hints. I have ordered the etches and castings to produce a couple of these for sale so your advice is timely. Unlike some other parts of the range I don't have problems in modifying the ex-Fourtrack instructions to include useful suggestions.

I have been quite unwell for most of the last month so haven't been keeping up to speed with things here, but I hope I am back now. Hope you too have fully recovered.

 

[Scale7JB]

Hi Rob, like the brake pull rods.

One of those little jobs that makes a world of difference. Although I guess if you didn't know it was there on the prototype, you wouldn't miss it...

JB.

 

[Rob Pulham]

Thanks JB,

It was your posting on the J Tanks that gave me the nudge to do it.

 

[Rob Pulham]

A concerted effort last week saw the G5 finished and delivered to Warren on Friday evening for painting.

Here are a few shots of the finished article.

















Despite lots of rinsing afterwards the light seems to have picked up the residue of the Viakal that I washed it in.

The next time you see it will be when Warren posts some photos of it painted.

Next up on here is the completion of a build of a Gladiator B16/1. As I say it's been started so first of all I need to work out what's still to do and then whether all the bits are there to do it so it won't start for a while.

 

[FiftyFourA]

Rob, glad to see you have those pesky problems sorted. She's looking good. Hope to see her in March at our meeting (no double booking this time mate ) painted by Mr H.

I do not envy you doing a B16 of any persuation. I once built a Nucast one in 4mm scale (many decades ago) and the swing of the bogie was, to quote an engineering expression, a "bugger". It will be interesting to see how you get on.

Peter

 

[Rob Pulham]

Rob, glad to see you have those pesky problems sorted. She's looking good. Hope to see her in March at our meeting (no double booking this time mate ) painted by Mr H.

I do not envy you doing a B16 of any persuation. I once built a Nucast one in 4mm scale (many decades ago) and the swing of the bogie was, to quote an engineering expression, a "bugger". It will be interesting to see how you get on.

Peter

Thanks Peter,

Sadly I won't be able to bring it along because it's not mine, it will go straight from Warren to it's owner. -I will be there though, laptop in hand.