Hatcham Servicing depot

S

Simon Dunkley

Guest
O Gauge - Poll Hill Parcels Depot

Hi Mike,

If I understand you correctly, you do not yet have the layout built? The issue about wire gauge is that a long run can see a voltage drop (and hence reduction in power) and too small a size will not safely conduct the current drawn. (In extremis, it would act like a fuse and simply blow!)

For the droppers on your plan, i.e. the verticals, then the 16/0.2mm will be fine. For the bus-bars, the horizontals on your sketch, it would not harm you to use the larger section wire to provide power.

Why would you want to do this? Well, you may one day fit sounds, lights, smoke units, etc, and have visiting locos with similar requirements for power consumption. If you wire up the bus using 32/0.2mm wire, you will be unlikely to have any issues with this.

If you have an existing layout and it is already wired up, then simply use that until you reach the point where you need to upgrade the wiring, and do it then.

Regards,
 
Ressaldar

Ressaldar

Western Thunderer
O Gauge - Poll Hill Parcels Depot

Simon and CME,

many thanks for your responses. I fully understand the voltage/power drop scenario, it was the latter part of my querry that was the real puzzle - existing wiring verses rip out and start again.

I have read that 2.5 twin & earth mains cable, stripped of it's outer sheath and using the earth for other things, is a suitable bus wire - am I correct in this and if so, presumably the use of snap lock connectors between the bus and droppers would be acceptable? (Especially as I have some 2.5T&E in stock).

regards

Mike
 
iploffy

iploffy

OC Blue Brigade
O Gauge - Poll Hill Parcels Depot

This topic has been covered in Simons Garden railway mate Please dont use scotch locks on your electrical connections as these have a tendency to rot/rust and create a high resistance joint therefor messing up all of the good work using larger dia wires for the ring main. 2.5 mm excellent conductors with droppers soldered on indestructable perfect system.

trust me on this

Ian
 
Ressaldar

Ressaldar

Western Thunderer
O Gauge - Poll Hill Parcels Depot

"trust me on this

Ian"

would I do anything but :thumbs:

It was what I wanted to hear, thanks Ian.

I'll have a look at Simon's Garden Railway and pick up some pointers.

regards

Mike
 
28ten

28ten

Guv'nor
O Gauge - Poll Hill Parcels Depot

Can you tell us (me!) what your new DCC setup is? my next purchase will be the Lionheart pannier with sound so I need to get started somewhere!
 
Ressaldar

Ressaldar

Western Thunderer
O Gauge - Poll Hill Parcels Depot

Hi Cynric and all,

I had spent a fair amount of time trawling the net for DCC system info, suppliers, and various forums and came down to a choice between Digitrax and NCE as both offered 'starter' systems of 5amps and above - being the minimum for O Gauge. I had a number of chats with various suppliers at Telford and eventualy settled on DCC Supplies - (quite handy for you Cynric being based just outside Worcester) and the Digitrax system but as I was only going too need it for a 'shunting plank' type of layout, the 5amp Super Chief Extra was what I ended up buying - the 8 amp version was only ?20 odd extra, but that difference went half way towards the 10amp transformer! I wish that the Digitrax manuals were as easy to follow.

As you are aware, I have been trying to establish the ground rules for the main wiring bus and now think I know where DCC is coming from/going to. So tomorrow, I will chase up the timber merchant for his quote for the ply panels etc which will hopefully be acceptable, a few Peco point motors and switches to be ordered and then away we go. The points will be powered and operated via a conventional control panel, 16v AC and a CDU.

I think though at the end of the day, the choice of 'system' boils down to personal preference combined with meeting Gauge/scale specifics.

regards

Mike
 
iploffy

iploffy

OC Blue Brigade
O Gauge - Poll Hill Parcels Depot

there was one further thing although I know little of DCC wiring DC being my field I am led to believe if you are having an oval do not connect the ends together on the ring main as this will cause communication problems from controller to chip

Ian
 
Ressaldar

Ressaldar

Western Thunderer
O Gauge - Poll Hill Parcels Depot

Hi Ian,

Thanks for the warning.

It's just a straight shunting plank when all is said and done - hopefully :rolleyes:

regards

Mike
 
Rob Pulham

Rob Pulham

Western Thunderer
O Gauge - Poll Hill Parcels Depot

Ressaldar said:
Hi all,

as I stated elsewhere, I think, (I'm definitely one of the ageing men who is loosing his memory) I have taken the plunge into DCC so now the fun starts.

Nigel Burkins book (a very essential read for those being/about to be converted) states that the bus wire for large scales should be 32/0.2 - I use 16/0.2 for conventional DC wiring in O Gauge. My question is that having heard that when converting from DC to DCC on an existing layout, all you basically have to do is switch all sections 'ON' and connect the DCC cable to the DC 'chocolate block! Simples!! But the DC is 16/0.2 :eek: :eek: is this therefore going to be a problem? should it all come out and be replaced by 32/0.2?

Having studied most of the layouts at Telford, I am coming back to the Minories type layout 16' x 2' so I cannot see that there will be that much of a power drop in that length even assuming that the initial feed is at one end (but it's more likely to be in the middle) and I'm also assuming that additional Power Districts will not be required, nor any other connections other than from the throttle to the command station.

My intention, if the above 16/0.2 scheme is workable in DCC, is to wire up as a convention DC layout - ie as four sections with insulated rail joiners between each section but without the section switches - ie, connecting the power by daisy chained chocholate blocks.

[attachment=0:2mlz3xfh]Poll Hill parcels depot V4 wiring 07.09.10.jpg[/attachment:2mlz3xfh]

Comments, after the laughter has ceased, will be most welcome.

regards

Mike
Click to expand...
Hi Mike, I like the plan is the scale a square = a foot? I ask to get a reasonable idea of what I can fit on my 2 x 11. I downloaded Xtrkcad but haven't worked out how to use it yet particularly how to scale it for 7mm.
 
S

Simon Dunkley

Guest
O Gauge - Poll Hill Parcels Depot

Ressaldar said:
I think though at the end of the day, the choice of 'system' boils down to personal preference combined with meeting Gauge/scale specifics.
Click to expand...
Hi Mike,

To reiterate this point, which was made not long ago by Steve Cook, most systems will pretty much do all that most people want of them: the issue is in the "how", i.e. quality of manuals and more importantly, ergonomics. A good supplier is recommended, too.

Ultimately, you can read up as much as you like, but the only way to decide is to visit a good shop (DCC Supplies are excellent), tell them you want it for 0 gauge and at least 5 amps, and then ask them what they have got for you to play with.

When it comes to power, it is better to have extra boosters and "power districts" as this makes fault finding easier.

There is a good video on wiring for short management on the MRH website - segment 4 is the bit to watch specifically, but the rest is worth watching.
 
28ten

28ten

Guv'nor
O Gauge - Poll Hill Parcels Depot

Thanks Mike, I had been thinking of the Lenz LH90 as I prefer something to twiddle rather than buttons to push. I will never be running more than 2 locos at any one time so I dont want 'feature bloat' :headbang: Having said that I quite liket the feel of the Ecos but its too much for my needs
 
Ressaldar

Ressaldar

Western Thunderer
O Gauge - Poll Hill Parcels Depot

Hi Simon,

thanks for the tip about the video, I'll watch it later today as we are off to Chester shopping this morning. I have been put in touch with this site

http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC.htm

which seems very good.

I think that I will probably go for stripped 2.5T&E for the bus and stripped 1.5T&E for the droppers

Cynric,

the Digitrax controllers are 'twiddly knobs' and in fact it is the only system that controls two trains at the same time. As I understand things the Lenz 90 might be underpowered for O Gauge, but I've probably misunderstood the words as usual.

regards

Mike
 
S

Simon Dunkley

Guest
O Gauge - Poll Hill Parcels Depot

Ressaldar said:
the Digitrax controllers are 'twiddly knobs' and in fact it is the only system that controls two trains at the same time. As I understand things the Lenz 90 might be underpowered for O Gauge, but I've probably misunderstood the words as usual.
Click to expand...
Digitrax use encoders, not potentiometers: this means you can keep turning them round and round and round, and have to refer to the display to find the speed setting, unlike a conventional knob with a line on it (as per the Lenz 90).
You can control two locos at the same time on one hand-held unit with the Zimo, too. (Expensive but of high repute.)
The Lenz 90 will be fine for 0 gauge: it is a question of the power you put into it, and using boosters when you go above 5A or so. It is not as easy to use as the 100 when it comes to programming, but the latter the best option is a rolling road and something like the JMRI interface for Decoder Pro. The software is free, but you need to either build or buy the interface for your computer. It is well worth the expense, but yes, it is more expenditure!
 
28ten

28ten

Guv'nor
O Gauge - Poll Hill Parcels Depot

Thanks for all the info. Having had a look around, the digitrax seems the most cost effective solution as I really don't want to spend an arm and a leg!
 
S

Simon Dunkley

Guest
O Gauge - Poll Hill Parcels Depot

28ten said:
Thanks for all the info. Having had a look around, the digitrax seems the most cost effective solution as I really don't want to spend an arm and a leg!
Click to expand...
If you don't like the ergonomics, then you will have wasted your money.
Hope it isn't cost that is persuading you: this is a bit like buying a house or a car, in that if you make a mistake, it can turn out to be (relatively) expensive to rectify it.

If, however, you have been and tried the various systems, including altering the loco number on the modules to get a feel for things, then glad you have made your mind up on this!
 
28ten

28ten

Guv'nor
O Gauge - Poll Hill Parcels Depot

Simon Dunkley said:
[quote=""28ten"":22513aux]Thanks for all the info. Having had a look around, the digitrax seems the most cost effective solution as I really don't want to spend an arm and a leg!
Click to expand...
If you don't like the ergonomics, then you will have wasted your money.
Hope it isn't cost that is persuading you: this is a bit like buying a house or a car, in that if you make a mistake, it can turn out to be (relatively) expensive to rectify it.

If, however, you have been and tried the various systems, including altering the loco number on the modules to get a feel for things, then glad you have made your mind up on this![/quote:22513aux]
Well cost is a factor, im only getting DCC because after hearing the Lionheart pannier I want sound. I couldnt give a stuff about consists and all the other 'features'! but dont worry I will try before I buy :laugh:
 
Phill Dyson

Phill Dyson

Western Thunderer
O Gauge - Poll Hill Parcels Depot

28ten said:
I want sound. I couldnt give a stuff about consists and all the other 'features'! but dont worry I will try before I buy :laugh:
Click to expand...
:scratch: Sums up my feelings towards DCC too :laugh:
Phill :thumbs:
 
S

Simon Dunkley

Guest
O Gauge - Poll Hill Parcels Depot

Phill Dyson said:
[quote=""28ten"":5x35l4tb] I want sound. I couldnt give a stuff about consists and all the other 'features'! but dont worry I will try before I buy :laugh:
Click to expand...
:scratch: Sums up my feelings towards DCC too :laugh:
Phill :thumbs:[/quote:5x35l4tb]
That plus programmable controls (i.e. speed curves) but more usefully the ability to park a loco anywhere where the reasons I originally wanted it.

Then I actually drove a loco on a DCC layout: it really was driving the loco and not the layout. Very different.
 
Phill Dyson

Phill Dyson

Western Thunderer
O Gauge - Poll Hill Parcels Depot

Simon Dunkley said:
[quote=""Phill Dyson"":1mgvf695][quote=""28ten"":1mgvf695] I want sound. I couldnt give a stuff about consists and all the other 'features'! but dont worry I will try before I buy :laugh:
Click to expand...
:scratch: Sums up my feelings towards DCC too :laugh:
Phill :thumbs:[/quote:1mgvf695]
That plus programmable controls (i.e. speed curves) but more usefully the ability to park a loco anywhere where the reasons I originally wanted it.

Then I actually drove a loco on a DCC layout: it really was driving the loco and not the layout. Very different.[/quote:1mgvf695]
Hi Simon :wave:

I think It is inevitable that I will go DCC at some point, but Like Cynric I don't want to spend a fortune on features I will never use.........TBH I don't really understand DCC at the moment, but I'm looking forward to learning more on the DCC threads :D

Cheers Phill :thumbs:
 
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