Hayfields 7mm 3D Printed Turnouts

martin_wynne

Western Thunderer
If you are printing the track base then for curves can Templot automatically factor in the inclination for super-elevation? So the sleeper base can be printed slighter thicker on the outside than the inside and include the graduation from that to straight and level.
@adrian @Hayfield1

Hi Adrian, John,

Built-in superelevation (cant) isn't currently supported, but it's a nice idea and I will look at adding it. Note that it will work only for FDM-printed bases, not for laser-cut bases. And only for plain track. S-curve transitions might need to be split into 2 separate templates.

Note that all rail in Templot 3D track is vertical, and it would remain vertical even if one rail is lifted higher than the other. This means the end result would be fractionally different from the effect of adding packing under one end of the sleepers. For model purposes this difference is of no significance.

To work with pointwork we would need to follow the prototype and have chairs with varying base thicknesses and 2-level chairs. That might work with laser-cut bases too. But it's a whole new can of worms and I'm not going there any time soon. :)

cheers,

Martin.
 
Last edited:

J_F_S

Western Thunderer
I suspect you’re in a minority of one if you’re finding ballasting interesting - it seems like everybody’s worst nightmare (though it may be a close second to wiring - which I personally enjoy)!

I think the evidence well supports your view Simon, and hence far too many exhibition layouts feature ballasting which looks - frankly - dreadful. (and - judging by all the finger-poking - wiring which is no better!!) An uncomfortable truism is that building a decent layout involves making a decent job of everything - especially the bits we do not particularly enjoy.

In my case, as it is a small layout, the track and its appearance has a disproportunately large impact and I spent many weeks thinking about how to do it including all the other things which are important to me (only!) such as working point rodding, third-rail cabling etc which cannot be added as an after-thought. So it is not that I find ballasting "interesting"; more that I needed to think how to do it well. That said, the method I used was designed to meet my specific needs and I would not recommend it to anyone else and would certainly change it to meet any different priorities next time.

Perhaps you may be willing to share?

It is just Woodland's Scenics and PVA! (plus a bit of method - you can see that trackbuilding and ballasting were a single operation for me.)
My general message to people would be to really think about the methods you are going to use for (things like) ballasting. Before you start anything, look long and hard at the real thing, consider all the different options - there are many - talk to people who have demonstrated they know what they are doing; and DO SOME EXPERIMENTS. I built a fully-working test track before I built this layout; all the ballast gradually fell off over six months - despite everyone having told me how wonderful Johnson's "Klear" was ... ... no, it is useless - in my context.

I think most modeller's attitude to "learning their trade" is best demonstrated by this summary of an exchange with "A Modeller" at a fine-scale exhibition where I was demonstrating track building:-

A Modeller:- " Wow - your ballasting is the best I have ever seen - how did you do it?"

Me:- "Well, what I did was ... ... ... etc.

A Modeller:- "Oh I can't be bothered with all that fag - the way I do it is [standard method No. 4]"

Me (thinking to self):- so that is why your track looks like the dog has thrown-up over it ... ...

By contrast, when my layout was at the NEC some years ago, the (even smaller) layout next to us featured wonderful trackwork. Talking to the builder, it soon became clear that he also had taken a LOT of trouble to get it right! All that said, if either of us were modelling a mile or so of the ECML, different priorities would be in play!

If anyone wants any detail there is lots here;- Learning to build Track - Scalefour Forum

If I were doing it again the "Plug-track" approach would be very interesting I think!

Best Wishes,
Howard
 

Hayfield1

Western Thunderer
Could I respectfully ask people not to use terms like "Gorilla Glue" as it is really unhelpful! "Gorrilla" is a (US) brand - it is not a type of glue. They retail several types - including what we know as PVA, plus "Aliphatic Resin" (which is a modified PVA) but are best known for being early in the field with moisture-setting polyester glue (the "Original" in Simon's link). They also make a heavy duty double sided tape which is really handy for mounting almost anything!! So when 'we' say "Gorilla Glue" 'we' might know exactly what 'we' mean but everyone else has a different idea in their head! I discovered this the hard way when I recommended "Gorilla Glue" to a friend - I meant Polyester, they used PVA - "Gorilla" PVA - but useless for the intended task!

Copydex is also a brand of course but since (as far as I know) they only make latex glue we are reasonably safe - until someone buys them up and mis-uses the brand name ... I used Copydex on my first "proper" layout in 1968 because the experts of the day said "use white glue" and Copydex was white. Only later did I discover they actually meant PVA ... ... Big disadvantage with Copydex is that it has a limited shelf life and it stinks when it goes off! It also leaves a very elastic 'skin' when it sets - if you try to drill through it, it wraps round the drill bit and pulls up everything in a 50mm radius - then breaks the bit ... ...

JFS

I wholly agree with you about naming brands in general, that is why after stating Copydex I put Latex in brackets, Latex glue is very hard to easily buy alternative brands, unlike what I always refer (probably incorrectly) to as Polymer glue such as No Nails but I find brands designed for trades (trade strength) certainly cheaper if not better. I never but either superglue or 2 part epoxy from either supermarkets or DIY chains

As for Gorilla glue, its now a brand of products which I never use as there are cheaper alternatives at least as good (never brought No Nails also)

PVA has its uses but in my opinion not in track laying.
 

Hayfield1

Western Thunderer
I suspect you’re in a minority of one if you’re finding ballasting interesting - it seems like everybody’s worst nightmare (though it may be a close second to wiring - which I personally enjoy)!

Simon

A week ago I would have agreed with you, but albeit I have a very small diorama in the track laying stage, and I am working in 7mm scale I have found doing my little bit quite enjoyable. But I am not building a large layout

Which leads me to my next question, what do folk use to weather their track beds, I am using acrylic paint, I know Phoenix use an enamel weathering paint (possibly tinted varnish) is there an acrylic alternative please ?
 

J_F_S

Western Thunderer
Which leads me to my next question, what do folk use to weather their track beds ...

Perhaps a bit useless for yourself this time round (but next time you will be building a layout!) but personally I try to minimise the use of paint on the finished track by pre-colouring as much as possible before laying. Hence my sleepers were pre-coloured a mid-grey and my ballast was coloured by using four or five different Woodlands Scenics colours and mixing them in different proportions to produce lighter or darker shades depending if trains were braking or accelerating over that bit. You can see the result in the pic above. Paint (Valejo acrylics - dead matt) is limited to rail-sides and chairs, though you could try it for other things - the 'dead-matt' being key for me.

As for 'weathering', ie local effects (brake-block dust, third-rail carbon motion oil etc) for this (and for locos etc) I make my own weathering powders using hard Carre pastels and by rubbing them on a very fine file, you can create a very fine powder which sticks quite well to everything (except very glossy paint). And you can create any colour just by rubbing two or three sticks together on the file surface. This produces a nice variation in the shading.

Hope that helps.
 

simond

Western Thunderer
I have a thin mix of brown and black acrylic which I airbrush on to weather it down, after painting details like black grease around fishplates, and spraying rust-coloured acrylics on the rail sides and chairs.
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
I think the evidence well supports your view Simon, and hence far too many exhibition layouts feature ballasting which looks - frankly - dreadful. (and - judging by all the finger-poking - wiring which is no better!!) An uncomfortable truism is that building a decent layout involves making a decent job of everything - especially the bits we do not particularly enjoy.

In my case, as it is a small layout, the track and its appearance has a disproportunately large impact and I spent many weeks thinking about how to do it including all the other things which are important to me (only!) such as working point rodding, third-rail cabling etc which cannot be added as an after-thought. So it is not that I find ballasting "interesting"; more that I needed to think how to do it well. That said, the method I used was designed to meet my specific needs and I would not recommend it to anyone else and would certainly change it to meet any different priorities next time.



It is just Woodland's Scenics and PVA! (plus a bit of method - you can see that trackbuilding and ballasting were a single operation for me.)
My general message to people would be to really think about the methods you are going to use for (things like) ballasting. Before you start anything, look long and hard at the real thing, consider all the different options - there are many - talk to people who have demonstrated they know what they are doing; and DO SOME EXPERIMENTS. I built a fully-working test track before I built this layout; all the ballast gradually fell off over six months - despite everyone having told me how wonderful Johnson's "Klear" was ... ... no, it is useless - in my context.

I think most modeller's attitude to "learning their trade" is best demonstrated by this summary of an exchange with "A Modeller" at a fine-scale exhibition where I was demonstrating track building:-

A Modeller:- " Wow - your ballasting is the best I have ever seen - how did you do it?"

Me:- "Well, what I did was ... ... ... etc.

A Modeller:- "Oh I can't be bothered with all that fag - the way I do it is [standard method No. 4]"

Me (thinking to self):- so that is why your track looks like the dog has thrown-up over it ... ...

By contrast, when my layout was at the NEC some years ago, the (even smaller) layout next to us featured wonderful trackwork. Talking to the builder, it soon became clear that he also had taken a LOT of trouble to get it right! All that said, if either of us were modelling a mile or so of the ECML, different priorities would be in play!

If anyone wants any detail there is lots here;- Learning to build Track - Scalefour Forum

If I were doing it again the "Plug-track" approach would be very interesting I think!

Best Wishes,
Howard

Most interesting, Howard. Thank you.

Jon
 

Stephen Freeman

Western Thunderer
Simon

A week ago I would have agreed with you, but albeit I have a very small diorama in the track laying stage, and I am working in 7mm scale I have found doing my little bit quite enjoyable. But I am not building a large layout

Which leads me to my next question, what do folk use to weather their track beds, I am using acrylic paint, I know Phoenix use an enamel weathering paint (possibly tinted varnish) is there an acrylic alternative please ?
Railmatch
 

Hayfield1

Western Thunderer
Thank you both, I painted base coats on the timbers, chairs and rails prior to fitting and I have noticed in real life the same colour grime attaches itself to all timbers, chairs and rails. I will think about airbrushing, but at the moment I must get on with other things for the demo board
 

adrian

Flying Squad
Transition curves yes but not printed superelevating as far as I know. But nothing stopping you superelevating the track, Just use the medium or thicker sleeper/timber thickness
[post edit - Apologies Martyn - I hadn't seen your post at the time of writing this]
Thanks for the info - I realise there's nothing stopping me applying superelevation by packing bits of card on the outside of the curve. It was more getting the transition right from straight and level to the inclined track base I was thinking about. So I don't think simply using a thicker timber thickness helps. A maximum super-elevation appears to be upto 5" or 6" so in 7mm scale I was thinking how you could print the track base where the outside part of the sleeper is 3 - 3.5 mm thicker than the inside of the sleeper. Now I could add a 3.5mm peg to the outside of the sleeper to prop it up accordingly but the really laborious job is then reducing that slowly to zero throughout the transition zone to return to the level track base on the straight portion. Just pondering if that calculation and inclination could be done within Templot whilst it was creating the 3D print files.
 

adrian

Flying Squad
Hi Adrian, John,

Built-in superelevation (cant) isn't currently supported, but it's a nice idea and I will look at adding it. Note that it will work only for FDM-printed bases, not for laser-cut bases. And only for plain track. S-curve transitions might need to be split into 2 separate templates.
Thanks for the info - thinking it through a little bit more then I think it'll be easier to draw up a simple 3D wedge of a suitable size to print and act as a sub-base to the printed track base. That should also be able to include the suitable transition.
 

Hayfield1

Western Thunderer
386.jpeg

The test track was working so well, I decided to add a small signal cabin to hide the oversize lever frame

387.jpeg

This led on to building a platform and bridge

388.jpeg

The cabin is a bit of a lash up, but hides the lever frame and used up 5 sash windows I had

389.jpeg

The bridge is a heavily modified Southeastern Finecast arch sheet, now trying to do the artistic bit by adding colours prior to a weathering wash

The idea is simply to show 3D track prints in a model railway environment

John
 
Top