Liver & Fry's workbench

GER open wagons New

Liver & Fry

Western Thunderer
Apologies for any offence cause, but for me personally, I hate leaving a project unfinished. Generally when I start something, I like to get it done before I move on. However, because I'm still unsure about the wisdom of soldering with a wrist in cast, I've put the M&GN wagons on hold and my need to keep busy has pushed me in another direction.

@Herb Garden has previously dabbled with (what I hope he won't mind me calling) an experimental form of kit design, whereby a wagon should be made from the corresponding materials of a prototype; wood bodies being made of wood and metalwork being made of metal. Me and him are originally cut from the same GER cloth and so when he decided to use this method to design a kit/parts for some GER open wagons, how could I say no? Especially when it's a concept I fully endorse!

What I ended up with was some laser cut wood and a sheet of brass etch. My focus currently is on the wooden body so, here's what I had to work with:

20240804_214545.jpg

These parts will specifically make a Dia.17 open, of which 12,050 were built between 1886 and 1903 - Basically, if you model the GE, you need this wagon!

I also have some 7 plank sides which will allow construction of either a Dia.48 or a Dia.17R should I desire.

I started by fixing the ends to the floor using PVA:

20240804_213943.jpg

You may note I've slide a section of plasticard under the floor. This is to bring the floor to the correct height in relation to the half-plank at the bottom of the bodyside.

Next I affixed the sides:

20240805_084311.jpg

And once dry, I then cut a section of plasticard to the correct size and fitted it under the wooden floor:

20240805_200750.jpg

This has two benefits; the first is that the bottom of the wagon needs to be a flush surface to allow continuation of the kit built (raising the floor was me being unnecessarily pedantic) and the second is that this way provides additional floor strength.

So currently I now have a structurally rigid body for my wagon:

20240805_201119.jpg

The nature of laser cut wood at this thickness means that only one side can be given planking, so my next move will be to add my own, in a similar manner to how I did the floor planking on the GE lowmac back at the start of my workbench thread. Yes, that steps away from "wood made from wood" but the final product will still, I'm sure, be something of great interest!

I'd just like to thank George for letting me have a go with these - I wouldn't have (and didnt) tackle these previously but now I feel like I can and I'm quite excited for the challenge of a different medium to work with.

As with the M&GN wagons, this may be a stop-start project depending on how I feel when I get to the metalwork section, but at least I've started it and done something!

- James
 
Last edited:

40057

Western Thunderer
Apologies for any offence cause, but for me personally, I hate leaving a project unfinished. Generally when I start something, I like to get it done before I move on. However, because I'm still unsure about the wisdom of soldering with a wrist in cast, I've put the M&GN wagons on hold and my need to keep busy has pushed me in another direction.

@Herb Garden has previously dabbled with (what I hope he won't mind me calling) an experimental form of kit design, whereby a wagon should be made from the corresponding materials of a prototype; wood bodies being made of wood and metalwork being made of metal. Me and him are originally cut from the same GER cloth and so when he decided to use this method to design a kit/parts for some GER open wagons, how could I say no? Especially when it's a concept I fully endorse!

What I ended up with was some laser cut wood and a sheet of brass etch. My focus currently is on the wooden body so, here's what I had to work with:

View attachment 221136

These parts will specifically make a Dia.17 open, of which 12,050 were built between 1886 and 1903 - Basically, if you model the GE, you need this wagon!

I also have some 7 plank sides which will allow construction of either a Dia.48 or a Dia.17R should I desire.

I started by fixing the ends to the floor using PVA:

View attachment 221139

You may note I've slide a section of plasticard under the floor. This is to bring the floor to the correct height in relation to the half-plank at the bottom of the bodyside.

Next I affixed the sides:

View attachment 221140

And once dry, I then cut a section of plasticard to the correct size and fitted it under the wooden floor:

View attachment 221141

This has two benefits; the first is that the bottom of the wagon needs to be a flush surface to allow continuation of the kit built (raising the floor was me being unnecessarily pedantic) and the second is that this way provides additional floor strength.

So currently I now have a structurally rigid body for my wagon:

View attachment 221142

The nature of laser cut wood at this thickness means that only one side can be given planking, so my next move will be to add my own, in a similar manner to how I did the floor planking on the GE lowmac back at the start of my workbench thread. Yes, that steps away from "wood made from wood" but the final product will still, I'm sure, be something of great interest!

I'd just like to thank George for letting me have a go with these - I wouldn't have (and didnt) tackle these previously but now I feel like I can and I'm quite excited for the challenge of a different medium to work with.

As with the M&GN wagons, this may be a stop-start project depending on how I feel when I get to the metalwork section, but at least I've started it and done something!

- James
I do like the approach of using the appropriate material to represent similar material in the prototype. It’s not a new idea, of course. Bassett-Lowke advertised their best quality hand-made wagons as being more realistic on exactly this basis — before WW1. It raises a fundamental question about what constitutes an accurate model. I guess in our current culture, realism = external appearance. Even if not explicitly stated, an accurate model is deemed to be one that copies superficial appearance very closely. Even if it is made of all the wrong materials and functions completely differently. To my mind, overall similarity to the prototype is an equally valid measure of accuracy. Wood representing wood etc.

Whichever criteria are used, yours are really good models.
 

Herb Garden

Western Thunderer
I do like the approach of using the appropriate material to represent similar material in the prototype. It’s not a new idea, of course. Bassett-Lowke advertised their best quality hand-made wagons as being more realistic on exactly this basis — before WW1. It raises a fundamental question about what constitutes an accurate model. I guess in our current culture, realism = external appearance. Even if not explicitly stated, an accurate model is deemed to be one that copies superficial appearance very closely. Even if it is made of all the wrong materials and functions completely differently. To my mind, overall similarity to the prototype is an equally valid measure of accuracy. Wood representing wood etc.

Whichever criteria are used, yours are really good models.
The original concept of the kits was an experiment developed around the fact that you have to tool up for an etched sheet whereas laser cutting the tooling is minimal. The GER wagon fleet is helpful in that a variety of wagon types use the same ironwork pieces.

So I can supply a common etch of metalwork which can be made in reasonable volumes and then a variety of wooden pieces in there s case to make at least 7 different produced in much smaller volumes

That was my thoughts when I started at any rate....

IMG_20240804_222848057.jpg
James one should look something like this when done
 

adrian

Flying Squad
The nature of laser cut wood at this thickness means that only one side can be given planking,

What thickness? The reason I ask is that I don't believe this should be a problem to laser "etch" planking on both sides of the one sheet. I have fitted a little laser crosshair pointer to my laser cutter and it has transformed the capability. I can laser etch and cut a wagon side in 2mm ply, flip it over and then using the laser crosshairs align the plywood to etch the inside planking very accurately.

I'd like to do something very similar in 7mm mixing wooden components, etched ironwork and 3D printed components - definitely the way to go, especially for producing a rake of PO wagons. I've got the tools to do it just short on the spare time to make any progress.:(
 
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