john lewsey
Western Thunderer
Yes fascinating
Mickoo's BR modelling
- Thread starter mickoo
- Start date
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Quite, what the eye don't see the governments can't act on, I.E if you fly high enough or sail far enough away, no one seems to give a hoot. MSC used to one of the biggest filth stacks in the Port, we now ban all vessels from running main engines alongside unless running up before departure and some still use filthy old gen sets for hotel power, so bad that many older vessels are now having pod gen sets added that burn cleaner to provide hotel power whilst in port, but they don't run at sea! I see them all the time, but do you think I can find a photo of them?
Still, here's MSC doing what it does best to help global warming, it cleans up after a while but still a lot of pollution being kicked out and she has just sailed from Europe so not cold and little excuse for such poor emissions.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
LOL, imagine the length of probe they'd have to use to make sure they get a true reading!
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
The Stoker must be shovelling bloody hard though
Col.
Col.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
You hope!, DFDs went and whacked the Ro-Ro ramp on Saturday big time.
forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18522002
No official word yet, but looks like he over cooked it whilst trying to manoeuvre in very high winds, probably didn't take towage and paid the price.
Best check Stena Lines are still running as DFDs Esbjerg service is cancelled.
Regarding the smoke, you won't/shouldn't, ferries run medium speed diesels which burn cleaner, Stenna Britannica and Hollandica run at 500rpm and they use a much lighter grade fuel, not the thick black cheap crap some cargo ships use.
Container ships run at slow speed so clag up easier, I think max rpm on a typical container ship is around 80-100rpm.
Having said all that, here's a medium speed diesel clagging, mind she is at max rpm and full port rudder to make the tight turn.
alcazar
Guest
Jeez, that one that hit the dock must have hit hard.
I once witnessed a P&O ferry strike the dock at Calais, it did nowhere near the damage that one has, yet the ground trembled.
The P&O guy standing next to me surveying the damage nearly had a fit when I remarked that the damage would T-cut out.......
I once witnessed a P&O ferry strike the dock at Calais, it did nowhere near the damage that one has, yet the ground trembled.
The P&O guy standing next to me surveying the damage nearly had a fit when I remarked that the damage would T-cut out.......
Wagonman
Western Thunderer
Hot sh*t! I checked the Stena website and that says services running as usual – from the photos I'd say that was the next ramp along, towards Mistley. I think (ie I hope) the Brtiannica and the Hollandica have their own dedicated on/off ramp. If not that'll be a 2.5 hour journey for nothing.
But, thanks for the heads-up Michael!
Richard
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Richard, both ferries use the same ramp, which is the one to the left of the vessel (standing on the bridge), called Ro-Ro 2, the destroyed one is Ro-Ro 3 and is where they tie up the Stena and DFDs boats alongside.
I believe DFDs can use 2 or 3 but Stena always uses 2, you can get a better idea of what it should look like from this shot
http://www.seateamimages.com/big102611.html
Map here http://www.harwich.co.uk/port/graphics/port_map.pdf
Here the DFDs vessel is berthed on #2 Ro-Ro, the ramp by the bow at mid left is Ro-Ro 3 and is the destroyed one.
To the far right is Ro-Ro 1 and outboard of that where the pylons are in mid water is where the HSS used to berth.
Never managed to do the HSS run, shame, wished I'd just done a foot passenger there and back to sample it.
So! You should be fine with your trip tomorrow, the day crossings have been sailing just fine so far. Weather looks good so have a pleasant crossing
Hoping to do the same later in the year for a two or three day train spotting trip with a rental car and some cheap board.
I suppose at some point I should get back to S7 modelling LOL, unless of course I'm going to model a modern dock scene with 7mm vessels....and yes....the thought frequently crosses my mind, more frequent than is good for my mental resolve!
Overseer
Western Thunderer
The HSS was a good trip, I used it to drive from London to Berlin for a weekend in 2000. Left London at a civilised time on the Friday to suit the sailing and got to Berlin before midnight, then back on the following Monday. The HSS was too ugly to take photos of but the propulsion system was interesting so took a couple of snaps as it came alongside at Hook of Holland.
How big is a 7mm scale container ship? You could probably use one as a backscene for a normal sized layout, or you would need a fair sized pond in your garden for radio controlled ships. Trains are much safer, especially S7 ones.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
The HSS uses water pumps, just like a Jet Ski, only significantly bigger, water is sucked up through a hole in the bottom of the sponson and passed through the impeller (driven by a gas turbine I belive) and spat out the back at high velocity. For something so big it weighed very little, hence the 30+Knt speed it could attain.
A 7mm container ship would depend on which prototype you chose....obviously
... but a average deep see vessel is in the order of 300m long so scales out at 6.9m or 22' in old money, pretty large by anyones standards LOL.
Having said that and if you did have the space, a deep water vessel would not fit any dock scene, as far as I know there are no terminals with direct rail access any more, there may be one or two in the US still kicking around but most container terminals have dedicated rail facilities at the back of the complex.
A more realistic option are the smaller docks or older docks which still have rail access, usually break bulk or animal feeds, powders and the such like, vessels serving these are much smaller and the best option would be the coasters that flit around Europe, modern low air draft (LAD) vessels are often built in the less than 1000t bracket (negates European tax laws) and these fall into the 75-100m LOA bracket. An average one would be 85m which works out at 1.95m if scaled as 1:43.5 but you could probably get away with 1:48 scale (which allows you to use some premade kit pieces, lifeboats, handrails etc) so long as you chose your cargo carefully, I.E. not containers, as if you wished them to be used on rail then you'd have to scale the vessel pegs at 1:43.5 to suit your stock and the container....which would throw out you vessel scaling.
If your cargo was powder, animal feed or say steel tubes, then you can scale at 1:48 which gives you a vessel length of 1.77m or 5.8' which realistically is a feasable size. Sub six foot is considered good for RC vessels if you want to get it into an average family car, and round here there are plenty of local boating lakes....so no need to convert my garden into a boating lake LOL.
Pushing the envelope then this is about the smallest dedicated container ship you can model at 118m LOA http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?mmsi=211286440 I do have the builders drawings for this class I believe (need to check when I get home as I have two sets for J.J.Sietas vessels) very popular class in Europe, something like 20 or so built I believe. Even so that'd be 8.9' long.
Failing that even these at 99m might do http://www.sibum.de/englisch/schiffe/msgerdsibum/index.html very regular vessels at Felixstowe so detail photos easily obtained, drawings might be a bit more difficult but our vessel planning office has drawings for every vessel that arrives here....just a case of putting up with the snipes and wise cracks when you go and ask for a copy as you model toy ships! LOL
A 7mm container ship would depend on which prototype you chose....obviously
... but a average deep see vessel is in the order of 300m long so scales out at 6.9m or 22' in old money, pretty large by anyones standards LOL.Having said that and if you did have the space, a deep water vessel would not fit any dock scene, as far as I know there are no terminals with direct rail access any more, there may be one or two in the US still kicking around but most container terminals have dedicated rail facilities at the back of the complex.
A more realistic option are the smaller docks or older docks which still have rail access, usually break bulk or animal feeds, powders and the such like, vessels serving these are much smaller and the best option would be the coasters that flit around Europe, modern low air draft (LAD) vessels are often built in the less than 1000t bracket (negates European tax laws) and these fall into the 75-100m LOA bracket. An average one would be 85m which works out at 1.95m if scaled as 1:43.5 but you could probably get away with 1:48 scale (which allows you to use some premade kit pieces, lifeboats, handrails etc) so long as you chose your cargo carefully, I.E. not containers, as if you wished them to be used on rail then you'd have to scale the vessel pegs at 1:43.5 to suit your stock and the container....which would throw out you vessel scaling.
If your cargo was powder, animal feed or say steel tubes, then you can scale at 1:48 which gives you a vessel length of 1.77m or 5.8' which realistically is a feasable size. Sub six foot is considered good for RC vessels if you want to get it into an average family car, and round here there are plenty of local boating lakes....so no need to convert my garden into a boating lake LOL.
Pushing the envelope then this is about the smallest dedicated container ship you can model at 118m LOA http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?mmsi=211286440 I do have the builders drawings for this class I believe (need to check when I get home as I have two sets for J.J.Sietas vessels) very popular class in Europe, something like 20 or so built I believe. Even so that'd be 8.9' long.
Failing that even these at 99m might do http://www.sibum.de/englisch/schiffe/msgerdsibum/index.html very regular vessels at Felixstowe so detail photos easily obtained, drawings might be a bit more difficult but our vessel planning office has drawings for every vessel that arrives here....just a case of putting up with the snipes and wise cracks when you go and ask for a copy as you model toy ships! LOL
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Well, as promised a simple shot of the pick ups on the 08. These start out as wiper contacts in relays, obviously they are too long and wide but do have the advantage of already having the tails soldered on, all one needs do is trim to size with a slitting disc in a mini drill, then pass the cable through the appropriate hole and secure with adhesive, in this case 'double bubble' which is a trade name for a two part adhesive you mix together.
The plastic bridging bar is simply 2 mm thick Plasticard super glued to the chassis, if it comes off I will simply drill 1 mm holes through it and the inner chassis and fix with nuts and bolts.
You'll have to excuse the comedy soldering on the tails, it's just a test at the moment and I need to make up a neater bus arrangement to solder each lead to.
Right back to more research now that my 08 itch has been scratched...temporarily!
The plastic bridging bar is simply 2 mm thick Plasticard super glued to the chassis, if it comes off I will simply drill 1 mm holes through it and the inner chassis and fix with nuts and bolts.
You'll have to excuse the comedy soldering on the tails, it's just a test at the moment and I need to make up a neater bus arrangement to solder each lead to.
Right back to more research now that my 08 itch has been scratched...temporarily!
Overseer
Western Thunderer
Mick
I hope you don't mind me commenting, but I don't think your top wipers are the best method of getting power from the wheels to the motor. There are a couple of issues which could cause frustration later, one being that any pick up on the tread will collect any gunge from the rails so get dirtier quicker, the other is you will have to remove the body to clean the pick ups. I find I don't have to clean pickups very often, except at exhibitions in venues with carpet - a check at the end of the day will find lots of fluff. I suggest that you use Iain Rice style backscratchers mounted on a bus bar or strip of pcb fixed along the side frame. It looks like there is plenty of space between the inner frames and the wheels and it will all be concealed. Having the pick up mounted so it touches the back of the wheel or flange, in line with the axle, means you can clear any fluff with a pair of tweezers from underneath without taking the body off. I usually use phosphor bronze wire for the actual pick ups but you could use strip. Having pick ups on every wheel also helps keep things running smoothly.
I hope you don't mind me commenting, but I don't think your top wipers are the best method of getting power from the wheels to the motor. There are a couple of issues which could cause frustration later, one being that any pick up on the tread will collect any gunge from the rails so get dirtier quicker, the other is you will have to remove the body to clean the pick ups. I find I don't have to clean pickups very often, except at exhibitions in venues with carpet - a check at the end of the day will find lots of fluff. I suggest that you use Iain Rice style backscratchers mounted on a bus bar or strip of pcb fixed along the side frame. It looks like there is plenty of space between the inner frames and the wheels and it will all be concealed. Having the pick up mounted so it touches the back of the wheel or flange, in line with the axle, means you can clear any fluff with a pair of tweezers from underneath without taking the body off. I usually use phosphor bronze wire for the actual pick ups but you could use strip. Having pick ups on every wheel also helps keep things running smoothly.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
No issues at all, please, everyone feel free to comment.
I agree with everything you say, however a couple of points in my defense m'lord LOL
First; I seriously doubt it'll be exhibition running (it wont be that good for exhibiting is one thing LOL) and as I don't even have a layout myself (really must pull my digits out and resolve that issue!) it's limited to short runs at Love Lane and West Mersea when (DCC fitted). They will be short as both those layouts are pure steam and us diseasal boys get short shrift
Mind a black 08 might be allowed to stay a little longer but Freightliner green? I fear not LOL.Second; the inner chassis will be all designed to be removed with just one screw, making removal a matter of minutes to do any servicing. Brakes, motor, wipers, sound chip and speaker will all be mounted on that one sub assembly, the only down side will be the six external (cosmetic) axle boxes which will need lining up before dropping it back in, but overall it's being designed as a complete sub assembly.
Third; and final, the photo doesn't really show it very well but the wipers are angled, the tips touch the tread but a few mm back where the wiper crosses the rim they also touch, they don't at the moment because there's no weight on the chassis and it's sitting a few mm to high, when its weighted the wipers then run predominately on the rim (that's the plan) not on the tread.
The angled wiper allows for any side play in the wheels, I have just done the above as a quick test as tomorrow it'll be run up and down Love Lane to check it all, it may be that the wipers final location and angle is not correct and will need some tweaking, but that's what the test run will be for.
Having said all that only one set of wipers touches the rim when weighted, the other set, nearest the original hole for the motor do, as yet, not touch the rim, the reason being, is that the pivot point is further back from the axle centre line in case I move the motor to the rear axle for cosmetic reasons.
You see the motor gearbox hangs below the frame line and class 08 only have two motors, the intermediate axle being un-powered. The plan is to cover that gearbox with a dummy motor and gearbox like the real thing, but that means moving the powered axle to the rear. If that happens then the rear set of wipers may need adjusting and then the centre set can be added, currently left off until a final decision is made on motor location. It all depends on whether I can live with seeing that bloody great gearbox hanging below the frame line when looking at the model from low level, and being as I've already trimmed back the inner chassis as is fouled the lower sight line, then it looks likely that the motor will eventually have to move!
It is a bit Heath Robinson and like most of this project, an exercise in what is and isn't practicable and I have zero issues taking it all off and trying something else if this does not work
I really don't want to faff about with split axles and insulated horn blocks and accept that's probably the best method wholesale for collecting power. Nor do I want to employ plungers, I've had little success with them in the past sadly.Ideally I don't want to collect any power from the track, I'd rather go with battery power and control, but that technology is still in its infancy and the 08 may be a little small to accomplish that, another option is battery as primary power and wipers to charge the battery from the track, thus extending your playability (more anon on that issue) but again there's little effective sound control with battery power and I want sound and only DCC currently gives a large range of sound effects.
Regarding battery playability, I'm really not sure you need anything that will work longer than 30 mins or so, couple of reasons, and those who do play trains for extended periods may be better able to answer this, how long do you really play with one loco for, I accept if you have a garden layout with a long run then 30 mins will be drastically shortened due to gradients and train loading, but an 08 for shunting I'd say 30 mins was ample time. Personally if I had 30 mins in one slot spare I'd be over the moon and then it'd not be just one loco I'd be after using, but several. An 08 could be used and then parked in a predetermined place. We have loads at work where they tend to migrate to when not in use, usually right outside the mess hut, or if they don't want to put up with the constant engine noise, some location close, but not too far as they get wet when going to and from the loco. My point is, said location on ones layout could be a charging pad and as the loco sits there it recharge the batteries.
A friend of mine has a Y or J LNER something tram loco in Gauge 1, it's battery powered and lasts about 30-40 mins, he's quite open about it and has said that he's never run out of battery power in a play session, he's always gone onto something else long before the batteries are dead. He uses his tram loco to keep his interest up whilst his live steam 4F is getting up pressure. Thus it may be that chasing the ultimate battery power pack that lasts for hours is a false folly, in reality, we may not need it to run that long. I accept others mileage may vary on that issue, but for me, I'd be happy with short bursts now and again.
Hmm sorry for the long spuffle LOL, apologies for those asleep at the back of the class.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Tony, indeed, for small industrial or perhaps a dock scene which I'm toying with on and off, then having small areas of live recharge tracks is certainly feasible, or if even a terminus then the loco staging area or platform dock. There will always be an area where locos are sat for extended periods, if not then make one and make it part of the operating restrictions. If you use ABC gearboxes or gearboxes that allow the motor to be back run (technical term for I haven't a clue what the real terminology is!) then if your current loco runs out then you send another out to shunt it back to the recharge point.
Failing that, just make all your simple track, I.E. that which is not points or crossovers live at a steady recharge rate, insulate from points and crossovers and you have a really simple wired layout that will recharge battery locos almost anywhere, no need to worry about wired frogs and switch rails, in which case your battery powered loco will run for ages and even better yet, you only need a smaller battery pack as it'll almost be constantly powered/charged from the track.
Or put another way, track power for the majority of the time but utilises the battery over point work.
It would still need some other form of control other than the track supply, R/C or these key fob controllers you can get or any of these other control systems that are coming on line.
The only downside for me is the lack of sound fidelity, once they crack that I'd be all in.
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
It is a bit Heath Robinson and like most of this project, an exercise in what is and isn't practicable and I have zero issues taking it all off and trying something else if this does not work
This is one instance where split axles are a bit of a PITA as everything is live. It certainly is possible though. I'd not worry too much about the wheel-top wipers; I've been using them in HO for many years with no problems, even in exhibition environments. I would get a third set in there though. I'm a little surprised you haven't used copper clad paxolin to mount the wipers on; it's more permanent than a superglue bond and also allows for the easy fitting of bus-bars. I agree with you whole-heartedly about plunger pick-ups!
Steph