Mickoo's BR modelling

[OzzyO]

Only use it at about 50psi with fine grit. If it has coarse grit lower the P.S.I. to about 20psi.

 

[mickoo]

So 180 is a bit high then

 

[OzzyO]

So 180 is a bit high then

I would say yes, at a guess. I only use about 45- 50 psi with fine grit (180)..and some think that is on the high side!!!!!!!!!!!

180 psi would be good if you want to reduce the thickness as well, if you are using some ruff grit (20 grade).

 

[Compton castle]

The plan at the moment is to use the tender that was supplied with the partworks flying scotsman kit. Looking on the web site it shows the non corridor tender as Mallard is currently running with, so I would assume that's what will be supplied, we will know soon enough.
My old Golden age Mallard had the flat back tender so maybe they used the wrong one as well.
The good thing is we have time on this project.

 

[alcazar]

Mallard had a non-corridor tender when built. It has been preserved with the corridor tender that was paired with 60003 which happened to be in works when Mallard was there for preservation. The model purports to show her as she took the speed record, so almost new, with the non-corridor tender.

Mallard's original tender is still around, in the care of the Gresley Society.

 

[alcazar]

You want another? Aaaaargghh.

The only kit with a bow ended is the Piercy one and they won't supply the tender as a separate item.

AFAIK ACE Products now has the ex-Jim Harris Acorn/Big4 A4 available at decent money, and he WILL do a tender separate if you ask nicely, it wil produce the bow-ended one.

 

[Steph Dale]

I think (but not really sure) that Mallard had a flat-backed corridor ('non-streamlined corridor') tender with cut down raves at the time of the '48 Exchange Trials. Can anyone confirm?

Steph

 

[Compton castle]

Here she is during the exchange trials on the WR
She has a non corridor tender in preservation

 

[mickoo]

60022 had An A3 corridor tender 5530 this is a beaded tender with turned in cab sheets and 4'3" hand rails to match the A3 class. She had that tender from Aug 58 to May 62 where it was swapped for a bow ended A4 corridor tender 5651 with turned in side sheets, 4'6" hand rails and stainless steel trim, one of only four such tenders fitted and retained in later life but painted over. She kept this until withdrawal in Apr 63.

The preserved tender is as noted, from 60003, tender number 5670, however NRM have renumbered it 5642, which is the tender she had when she broke the speed record. The authentic tender 5642 was attached to 60026 for the last eleven years before withdrawal in Dec 65.

In total there are nine types of tender to choose from on the A4 class over the years

Being as Steve probably wishes to model Mallard in 62 or 63 as an excuse for his layout, then the proposed Hachette tender will be incorrect for a BR green loco.

I've posted this spreadsheet before but I'll post it again, basically it's a cross reference to all the photos I have on my PC, in books and all the written info from RCTS, Yeadons, Irwell Press and web sites etc. It's nothing new but just tabulated into an easy to digest spread sheet with a index at the bottom.



It should also be remembered that tenders were modified over the years, so the list is the basic tender types, not detailed changes carried out over the years, especially pre war with the streamlined coverings. One thing I haven't nailed yet are the water scoop baffles, some tenders have large side plates between the inside of the tender wheels and the water scoop, which means the scoop isn't visible. At a wild guess they are to stop the spray from coming out of the sides of the tenders and channel it underneath. An Inspector was killed north of York (Wiske Moor?) when a passing express (I think the two Flying Scotsman Expresses) picking up water flicked up some debris and with the water pressure as well smashed in the firemans windscreen, causing fatal head injuries, from then on the windscreens were made from armoured glass, certainly on all A4 class, the trains were also re-timed to not pass on the troughs to help reduce the risk.

 

[Compton castle]

That's a great reply, so what are the options for the correct tender as you said I want it in its 1963 condition

 

[mickoo]

I think (but not really sure) that Mallard had a flat-backed corridor ('non-streamlined corridor') tender with cut down raves at the time of the '48 Exchange Trials. Can anyone confirm?

Steph

Steph, yes she has a flat backed A4 non corridor tender, see above, there were two cut down tenders for the 48 exchanges, one remains on 4472, the other I think went for scrap, I need to double check that though.

Mallard had 5323 which is a beaded A3 corridor tender, the other was 5332, again another beaded A3 corridor tender.

Flying Scotsmans tender at NRM with cut down rear cowling for the water cranes on other regions during the 1948 trials, I don't know which of the two it is just yet, I haven't detailed out my A3 spreadsheet too much as yet.

 

[mickoo]

That's a great reply, so what are the options for the correct tender as you said I want it in its 1963 condition

Steve, you need 5651 which is an A4 bow ended corridor tender with stainless steel strip, the main platform level difference between A3 and A4 corridor is the beading, however I think the corridor roof is quite different between the two types, especially in the coal space area.

The stainless steel strip is an important feature and often missed, ignored or not generally known about, most know it was fitted pre war and removed post war when the skirts went off the locos, but the tenders retained it. I think, and I am guessing here with out getting all my books out, that maybe one or two had the strip removed and just left the fitting lugs poking out from the bottom of the tender footplate....but I really must double check that to be sure, it's just a niggle as I'm sure I've seen some tenders with the fixings protruding and making the tender look really ugly.

Some photos to help y'all understand a bit better, these are off the web and copyright exists with original owners and the images have been cropped, the colour one is just superb and I've a handful from the same source, mostly around Grantham, but I cannot for the life of me find the site again, I'm sure it was on flickr and suspect the site has closed so the images are lost forever to the public.

First up a standard bow ended tender 5590


Now the bow ended with stainless steel strip 5651


Note deeper valance under the tender footplate and it sweeps round over the buffers, note also the larger curved rear steps, without checking my books I think these are only on the corridor tenders, but A3 or A4 or both or just bow ended I've forgotten.

Choices, not a lot really, if ACE do let you have a tender then start with that, the frames and running gear are pretty much identical over the whole fleet so the Hacette frames will suffice, you just need a new body, you could modify the Hacette body but note that corridor tenders are 'full' width, non corridor tenders are 6" narrower with a lip around the base of the tender, so your Hacette will have to take on some full fat coke and burgers for a while. The handrails will be too short as well, note both of the above tenders, the tender handrails match the cab handrails, the Hachette kit if true to the speed record will have handrails 3" too short....you will easily notice the visual difference.

The only other option is to scratch build or try and get hold of a streamlined A4 tender from someone else and then just bow the rear end widen slightly and adjust the side sheets to suit. As I've said before, I want to make some art work up for a range of tenders as I think it's getting a bit of a hole now for what's available, but they will be etches only, no castings planned as yet. I need a tender just like yours so your welcome to a set of etches if they meet your standards when I get them done, as you say, there's not much of a rush if your doing the partwork route.

Addendum, just read your considering the Partworks A3 tender, that'd probably work, it has most of the corridor bits and pieces you need, the front end might not be 100% accurate but then it's hard to see in there if you add the weather sheet I have to confess, tender fronts are an area I lapse on, especially LNER Pacifics with their weather sheets and tight clearances. You will need to change the rear bulkhead, chop it off and make a new bow ended one from brass or even Plasticard as I think the Partwork A3 was plastic bodied? then you will need to add extra raves on the side sheets and make them higher over the corridor both in the coal and water space and on both sides. Finally get rid of the beading along the top and back of the tender.

I do keep looking at the Partworks A3 but am put off by having to clean all the brass, I've heard it has the same lacque as the A4, but that might just be urban myth, also the firebox looks woefully narrow and the cast footplate just seems a bit chunky, but other than that the rest of the model makes up really well, there's been a recent rash of them on the bay of E, some go for silly money but one or two were in the low £300 bracket, which isn't too bad a price really.

 

[mickoo]

You want another? Aaaaargghh.

At least one, maybe more, depends how many get flogged on the the going rate

 

[Compton castle]

Great stuff, just what I needed to know.
I have the option of the corridor tender from the Hachette A3 kit from a few years ago so I'm assuming this is the correct width and could be the basis of the tender I need.
The etches option could be the answer

 

[mickoo]

Steve, yes the A3 corridor is the best option for conversion, just bow the rear, remove the beading, add the strip along the bottom, fit new rear steps, make longer handrails and raise the sides higher like the photo of 60022 at Grantham above, just copy that image and you'll be spot on. I'll try and sort some data and info on the coal spaces and corridor as seen inside the tender, generally I fill my to the brim with coal so coal spaces have little interest to me and just usually end up as flat sheets, well so far anyway

 

[Compton castle]

Brilliant , thanks very much.

 

[Scale7JB]

For axle box and spring castings for the tenders, I can highly recommend those available from the Reynaulds range from Hobbyhorse Developments..

JB.

 

[Compton castle]

For axle box and spring castings for the tenders, I can highly recommend those available from the Reynaulds range from Hobbyhorse Developments..

JB.

Thanks I have one of there catalogues. I shall make a note of them.

 

[mickoo]

I used Ragstone on my A1 tender which were very nice, will have to check the Hobbyhorse ones out too.

 

[Compton castle]

I like the castings from Ragstones & Laurie Griffin. I've seen some of the Hobby Horse/ Reynalds range and they are very nice.
Looking at their catalogue ( Hobby horse) besides the tender Axlebox and springs they do the Cortazzi Radial Axleboxes and Axleboxes springs