4mm Monks Ferry LNWR

[jonte]

Jon,
Your scratch-building is a credit to you Jon - don't put yourself down. I do like the Ottery St Mary home signal. My ventures in that field have only been with plastic kits and even then I made a hash of the job ! I must admit to a liking for the old Hornby-Dublo and Crescent ranges of ready to plant signals - generic, yes, but they suited me.
My memories of Banbury station are, to say the least aged and rather vague. It was where I used to leave a rather slow Western Region stopper and change to a considerably more brisk Eastern Region service for the Great Central Line to the East Midlands. This was in the mid-fifties when I was proudly serving HM in the RAF. Happy days. long gone .
Regrettably my railway modelling activities are at a temporary standstill due to a disabling bout of ill-health, and when I get back to things some hard decisions will have to be made, but this is not the place for that. At least with my refreshed eyes, I can catch up on my railway reading - there is plenty waiting!

Cheers,
Roger .

Hi again, Roger

Please accept my humblest apologies for the late reply, but I’ve been pottering

I’m deeply sorry to read that you’ve been unwell, Roger. You must be extremely disappointed after receiving your recent good news that your procedure had been a roaring success, especially on the modelling front, but I’m pleased that you can at least convalesce with some great reading material

Commendable stuff, Roger, having served and I’m pleased that you can look back on your service days with great fondness. Perhaps if I can create even the remotest of likenesses to the original Banbury, perhaps it can reawaken some pleasing memories; I sincerely hope so

Thank you for your kind compliment re my scratchbuilding examples; I do enjoy building stuff, it’s just a shame that I’m often left with the feeling that it can have been done a lot better. But there’s always next time

Talking of which, I made a start, and will post up a couple of pics for your perusal

Cheers for now, Roger.

Jon

 

[jonte]

Hi-Jack away, gentlemen. It’s all good stuff which I’m always pleased to read and receive

Jonte

 

[jonte]

Thanks to some invaluable help once again from my fellow Westerners, I’ve decided to build a train shed to cover all three tracks based on that of Bodmin General (photos gleaned from sources on the internet and shown for illustrative purposes):



It’s a ‘based on’ project, as to rigorously follow each and every detail of the prototype would probably see my grandchild going to Uni before it was completed, plus my skill levels aren’t quite up to it. Hopefully, it will capture enough of the spirit of the original to engage you, and more importantly, provide some shelter to my mini passengers and staff, from the vagaries of the N.W. weather to which the banks of the Mersey are frequently subjected.

I’ve been using dimensions from some archived plans of Frome station, which was very similar in appearance, and which have proved most helpful. However, I’ve diverted from using the full dimensions as the roof was shallower in pitch than that of Banbury. Unfortunately, I couldn’t use the full twenty five degrees pitch of Banbury, as the extra length of my shed would have had the fascia far too deep, so I’ve compromised on something between the two. I hope - when you see the attached pictures - you will agree that it captures the essence of the building.

Materials to be used in construction will consist of a variety of styrene strips from Evergreen and Plastruct, balsa and brass wire/rod (which will form the iron Roding strung between the beams).

I’ve made a series of jigs from cork tiles and brass lace pins, using diagrams drawn as accurately as I could on graph paper, which will be used to construct the beams and their hangers:



The two smaller jigs are for use in constructing the left and right hand sides separately, before bringing together on the full-sized jig (the jig still needs to be rubbed with an old candle, the wax preventing the glue sticking to the graph paper beneath, allowing it to be used again for the eighteen beams in total). I should have done it before the pins went in but

I’ll construct a further jig of ply and track pins which will be used to form the iron rodding. Don’t want to be getting the soldering iron too near to those plastic beams Once the rodding is formed off the job, it can be introduced to the beams in the main jig where it can be attached (glued).

Of course, a further jig will be required to form the beams into a roof, but it can wait until I reach that stage.

The walls of the station will only be built once the roof is finished and found to be sound. The intention is that the roof will be a ‘lift-off’ to gain access to the tracks for cleaning etc.

That’s it for now, fellow Westerners. I’ll post up a picture or two of the next jig to be built and in use, over the next couple of days or so, although you’ll be pleased to read that I won’t be posting as frequently as before once I’ve done so.

And I’ve still to tidy up the track with its missing sleepers and gaping holes

I’ll get round to it. Eventually.

Jonte

 

[Roger Pound]

Yet another fine design and 'production line' setup, Jon. My sincere admiration on your skills and patience. I look forward to seeing the completed structure in due course.
I think it is a common failing among many of us in this hobby that we always think, after a job is finished, we could have done it better. Of course the obvious question then arises - perhaps we could have but would anyone have noticed the difference anyway?

Roger

 

[jonte]

Yet another fine design and 'production line' setup, Jon. My sincere admiration on your skills and patience. I look forward to seeing the completed structure in due course.
I think it is a common failing among many of us in this hobby that we always think, after a job is finished, we could have done it better. Of course the obvious question then arises - perhaps we could have but would anyone have noticed the difference anyway?

Roger

Hi Roger

You’re like a breath of fresh air

I think my projects fail in the main because I lack foresight to a certain degree (as with the train shed roof in my previous posts, with the oversize bargeboards), and once these elements become apparent, I start to lose heart such that details I intended to include just don’t get done, which disheartens me further. That said, I do enjoy the construction side so I suppose there’s some benefit to the exercise.

In respect of others’ noticing, I think the issue is exacerbated somewhat by today’s phone/iPad cameras that pick up on the slightest of errors, or perhaps magnify others, such that it’s difficult to get away with slight discrepancies. Par for the course, I suppose; hey ho

In respect of my current working practices, I’m already dissatisfied with one or two elements. Having pored over yesterday’s photos, I have to conclude that while the ‘cuts’ weren’t too bad, they could have been better, so much so that I’ve changed the use of the smaller jigs to become makeshift mitreboards:



A steel rule, placed against existing pins in line with the pitch, is supported on offcuts of the strip to be cut. Then appropriately placed pins hold the section to be cut at the correct angle, which is slid beneath the rule. The razor saw can then be held vertically and supported against the rule, while the cut is made. The following picture shows the vast improvement to the standard of cut made:



The new cut is the section jutted up to the rafter, adjacent to the protractor. Compare and contrast with the existing cuts of the two beams where they meet

Perhaps my many previous mistakes are at last paying dividends?

Thanks again, Roger, for your continued interest and support

Best,

Jon

 

[jonte]

I had hoped to have shown you all a little more progress than this, but life as you all well know, fellow Westerners, sort of gets in the way.

Gadding with dear friends and going to watch the latest 007 epic wasn’t too much of a chore, but doesn’t help much in moving things swiftly along - if you’re reading this Ms. Broccoli (rumour has it you’re a member here going under the nom de plume of @daifly ) then my diary’s a bit sparse thankfully for the foreseeable, so if in the event Mr. Cavil turns down the role, please feel free to call!

To be fair, circs or not, I’d still have been at the same staid point however, as I’d got myself a bit stuck construction wise.

You see, to simplify construction, I’d decided to represent the web of rods spanning the shed roof with fine brass wire held by small sections of the finest (in form) K&S tubing (1/16” o/d?). Annoyingly, my tube cutter won’t cater for anything that slim, and try as I might, the thought of cutting perhaps forty individual sections with a Stanley blade (many as small as 2mm in length) and just for a ‘basic’ model, had me reaching for the pills. Long story short, I’ve one ordered and currently await delivery as I write.

Consequently not much to show apart from a kit of parts awaiting assembly:



The first one off the jig (the candle wax certainly helped prevent the glued areas sticking to the paper template):



The two supports for the wire rodding have been simplified from that of the real Banbury, to just vertical sections (they’re really not toeing in as the photo would have you believe). All sections have been cut in my home made jigs as shown previously, and are as accurate as I can make them with my basic tools and general hamfistedness.

Transferred to a further jig which is mounted on more robust ply for soldering purposes. Once I know the final sizes of my brass tube sections, I can complete the jig (probably gluing in offcuts of wood to act as guides):



The wire and tubing I intend to use to represent the rodding and their brackets, which will be attached to the bases and apexes of the angled rafters, and bases of the vertical ‘hangers’ as per the real Banbury:



So, there we go. Not a lot to show but at least I seem to be going in the right direction.

Jonte

 

[jonte]

Now here’s a thing, fellow Westerners.

I’d intended the roof to extend beyond the joint, approximately four or so inches onto the adjacent board, taking up the space of where the bridge traditionally sits. Then the plan was to place the two lines of pillars in series along the front of the layout, so that the observer would be looking through them along the entire (almost) five foot length of station (hence the creation of all those pitched beams!). As I’d reached pretty much of a standstill in terms of roof construction as explained in my previous post, I decided to dig out the pillars and their beams (that have sat on my garage work bench for the last couple of years or so gathering dust!) and try a dry run. It’s funny how something that works in the mind looks pretty rubbish in reality, as did this; the proportions of roof/station/ station throat just didn’t look right. There was simply too much roof! So it was back to what had originally been intended when I built them for my original project: shorter roof with supporting beams/pillars either side:



Of course, the platforms will extend as before and as per Minories plan; to create interest, I think I’ll place a footbridge with wooden panelling built into raised steps either side prior to the join. Hopefully, this will create the impression that the station was shorter in length when built due to the shorter length stock (as per Monks Ferry).

While I’m on the subject of bridges, it’s my intention to create an iron girder bridge skewed across the track which I’ll term the ‘graving dock bridge’, a stone road over bridge to go across the double tracks just after the end of the siding, and a tunnel before the exit to the fiddleyard. Again, these were as per Monks Ferry, although the graving dock bridge was actually located at Woodside.

Cheers for now.

Jonte

 

[GrahameH]

Hi Jonte,

Some nice progress so far, the jig method is certainly the way to go enabling each roof section to match.

Apologies for not getting back to you sooner ref: my Banbury plans - I have had a good look but failed to find them, goodness knows where they are, in fact I'm not certain they exist any long since my move.

That said I think what you're creating something that will give a good representation and look forward to seeing progress.

Kind regards

G

 

[jonte]

Hi Jonte,

Some nice progress so far, the jig method is certainly the way to go enabling each roof section to match.

Apologies for not getting back to you sooner ref: my Banbury plans - I have had a good look but failed to find them, goodness knows where they are, in fact I'm not certain they exist any long since my move.

That said I think what you're creating something that will give a good representation and look forward to seeing progress.

Kind regards

G

Hi Grahame

Not a problem, my friend, don’t worry It was kind of you to offer; this was never intended as a scale build and I’m always grateful for your continued interest in my calamities!

To be frank, the only reason I needed guesstimates was because I had a mad idea that perhaps cut sections of elliptical girders from the Peco station roof kit could form part of those intricately formed, vertical supports to which the rodding is fixed. However, many RTR kits are a little too chunky in form, and although I didn’t have the precise dimensions of the parts in the kit, I was guessing it had to be a minimum of 3mm (too chunky for the purpose as it transpired!).
It was a shame really, as there was a used, unassembled kit advertised on a popular internet auction site at the time for relative peanuts, but even at that price it wouldn’t have been a bargain as it turned out, thanks to those kind souls like yourself who came to my aid

Thanks once again, Grahame, and also for your kind words of encouragement.

Jonte

 

[jonte]

I don’t think I can get this much closer:



I’m pleased that the red hue in the blue-grey has been retained, despite several dark washes of a variety of concentrations. The green has been provided for interest and contrast; I may just add a little more blue, but I don’t think it looks too bad.

I’ll ensure that when it comes to doing the job for real, the ballast will be kept a lighter shade externally of the sleepers.

Hope you agree.

Jonte

 

[jonte]

Grandparent-ing duties have detained me of late, fellow Westerners, but about the privilege of doing so I cannot complain. The little lady is indeed a joy to behold.

You may recall that it was my intention anyway not to post as frequently with the shed aspect of the build as much of it is repetitive jig work, and in any case, work had almost drawn to a halt whilst I awaited the arrival of a smaller tube cutter to aid the fabrication of smaller sections for the rodding supports. Nevertheless, in between and when I could grab the opportunity, I continued to glue-up the roof sections in the make shift jig, such that I nowhere have more than enough roof supports for the drastically reduced in length roof than originally intended. I’m also pleased to report that the new ‘tool’ arrived yesterday such that I was able to make a start cutting the supports.
Further scrutiny of the Banbury photos shows that rodding ran longitudinally as well as transversally, a point I had originally overlooked. Consequently, two more ‘jigs’ have had to be formed to cater, and which will ‘hold’ the fragments of brass tube whilst I wield a hot iron, all the while trying not to burn myself or torch the humble jig.

Some pix:

A trial fit of a randomly selected beam (from the throng) to gauge distance of pillars and beams (the keen observer will note that I’ve cut the timber plinths to which the pillars are affixed to site them closer to each other; what a job cutting so close to these delicate plastic forms too, which required the purchase of a new saw with sharp teeth!)



This trial-fit proved that yet another darned obstructive beam had to go!



The beams are now the requisite distance apart and are firmly screwed to the board.



The two new jigs for soldering the rodding supports (No.1 is for soldering the first two sections; No.2 is for soldering on the third, in effect forming a cross which will be attached to the underside of the vertical hangers):



The sections are just loosely placed for illustrative purposes.

Several sections of tubing cut to length using the K&S tube cutter. Just 32 more required, which doesn’t take long once you’ve got into a rhythm (originally, I built a plastic tool to try and make them even shorter, however, the various shapes which form the body of the cutter made it difficult to cut uniform lengths. It was soon put down to experience !):



Cheers.

Jonte

 

[Roger Pound]

Jon,

This structure is undoubtedly destined to look excellent. However, one point that has occurred to me - you may have covered it previously and I missed it. Forgive me if this is so, but will the roof be easily detachable from the structure to access any problems which may occur whilst operating ? You know how Murphy's Law can apply - "not only will it happen if it can happen but it will be in the most awkward place to access !"

Just a thought.........

On a different note, I am so pleased to hear further of your settling in happily to the life-long pleasure of being a grand-parent. My best regards to the young lady and I wish her every success and a long and happy future.

From one Grand-dad to another

Roger

 

[jonte]

Jon,

This structure is undoubtedly destined to look excellent. However, one point that has occurred to me - you may have covered it previously and I missed it. Forgive me if this is so, but will the roof be easily detachable from the structure to access any problems which may occur whilst operating ? You know how Murphy's Law can apply - "not only will it happen if it can happen but it will be in the most awkward place to access !"

Just a thought.........

On a different note, I am so pleased to hear further of your settling in happily to the life-long pleasure of being a grand-parent. My best regards to the young lady and I wish her every success and a long and happy future.

From one Grand-dad to another

Roger

Hi Roger, my fellow (but far more experienced) Grand-dad

Thank you for your kind regards and best wishes which I shall pass on to the family

Yep, Murphy’s Law

For once, Roger, I thought ahead and took this into account, so the plan is to make it removable as you sagely advise

In fact, the pillars were originally meant to support the roof I was messing about with not so many posts back, which as you can see from the photos is indeed removable if somewhat cumbersome. It’s surprising how heavy bits of rail, greetings cards, grey board and balsa can get when all lumped together as a single object

Thanks once again, Roger, for your kind compliments and your continued valued interest in my bodging, and for keeping an eye to any unforeseen perils that I’ve probably overlooked

Kind regards,

Jon

 

[Roger Pound]

Well thought out, Jon. I thought you must have planned it so, it was just a little niggle that crossed my mind having been caught out many moons back by not thinking a similar situation through properly on a layout I built. They say we learn by our mistakes, which is quite true, but to be honest I can do without that particular extra learning curve as well. After all these years in the hobby I do try to have all the angles covered as I am sure you do as well .
Keep on chopping girders, mate.
Cheers,
Roger

 

[jonte]

Well thought out, Jon. I thought you must have planned it so, it was just a little niggle that crossed my mind having been caught out many moons back by not thinking a similar situation through properly on a layout I built. They say we learn by our mistakes, which is quite true, but to be honest I can do without that particular extra learning curve as well. After all these years in the hobby I do try to have all the angles covered as I am sure you do as well .
Keep on chopping girders, mate.
Cheers,
Roger

I don’t believe for a second you make mistakes, Roger. Just testing yourself and adding a little more interest to boot

Yes: back to chopping and trying not to burn my wee pinkies on a hot iron

Best.

Jon

PS: Loving your avatar, Roger

 

[jonte]

Just a quick update, fellow Westerners.

My intentions to form ‘crossed’ brackets for the rodding went a little awry, I’m afraid

It started off rather well as, with a bit more practice, I managed to hone my skills with my home made ‘positioning-on-cutter’ tool and produced small tubes of uniform size as originally intended. The problem arose, however, in the form of those jigs.

The jigs on the cork were great for holding the relatively minute pieces of tube whilst they were soldered, the cork readily receiving the brass pins. Problem was that the cork flexed under the weight of the iron, so whilst all was well in plan, this wasn’t the case in elevation. No. So it was back to using the ply as intended, which involved gluing the balsa jig to the base. Whilst all was well in elevation this time, plan wasn’t worth commenting on. You see, the ply won’t readily accept the soft brass pins, and even it does, after a couple of go’s, the holes become too big for any further use. With pieces this small, there’s only a finite number of times you can place the pins before you run out of room along the length of the piece being worked on. Add to that the fact that the balsa contained some of the properties of cork, well, that idea went west. The prospect of soldering up another jig from brass sheet, with the risk of soldering very small parts to the jig, had me coming out in a cold sweat. Frankly, I’d given up considering using some hardwood, so with discretion being the better part of something or other, I decided to keep things simple and chose a route with least resistance: a simpler method using a jig of easy to use materials ie make the shed an amalgam of Banbury and Frome so that I can pick and choose the easiest solution, and form a jig of card and cork. A cowards way out? Perhaps, but I’ve never been the brave sort.

The result?

Well, rather than the ‘A’ frame that runs centrally and transversally (is that even a word) through the Banbury shed - the rifled(?) ends formed by the cutter on the tubes, means that each diagonal would be ever so slightly out and look ruddy awful and viewed end on, so I bottled out and chose the simpler vertical rod of Frome. Whilst I’ll continue with the rodding running longitudinally as per Banbury, I’m going to cheat and drill the vertical hangers carrying the rodding just above the tubular brackets holding the transverse rodding, and slide the rods through the holes so that they’re in one length. Hopefully, this won’t be too obvious to the proverbial blind man on his galloping neddy

Here’s a piccie of the humbler jig for your delecktayshu….delictatio….interest (I hope):



And here’s one of the first couple formed:



I really will have to be careful handling these as they’re so delicate. The excess length of the vertical rod will be glued into a hole drilled under the apex of the roof former, and the brackets to the underneath of the hangers and beam ends.

So there we go. Not ideal, but I suppose we all have to work within our limits.

Now I’m off to purchase some more brass wire whilst roof-beam forming continues in earnest.

Cheers for now.

Jonte

 

[jonte]

Even before the type of train shed I’d chosen to model had been decided, fellow Westerners, thoughts had already turned to the station building itself.

It was always my intention to model something austere; unwelcoming; careworn even, for Monks, although more in the vein of a once grander building than its later facade would have us believe. Thoughts of early railway stations like Manchester’s Oxford Road or Wirral’s Green Lane came to mind, where late Georgian/early Victorian styles which eventually fell into disrepair, were simply covered over by cheap mortar rendering - masking past opulence - for purposes of thrift and expediency in the harsh post war era.

Also, although a rather extreme example, I’d long desired to model the weather beaten appearance of Uxbridge Disused Stations: Uxbridge Vine Street Station The problem here was that the wall that once supported the train shed roof that had indeed initially caught my eye, was without windows, a must if my humble example was to pass muster even if only a train set. I say a problem, as Minories I believe was primarily a design that incorporated as much operational potential as possible in a small space, obviously at the expense of scenery. Consequently, the station itself had only a small footprint - in my case, just the further most end of the board, one side for viewing purposes being ‘open’, the opposite having only a boundary stone wall running its length, punctuated with the odd wooden GWR building along its otherwise open platforms. As those of you who are generous enough to follow these trials and tribulations will be aware, I’m far too busy and perplexed with other more pressing issues with the build currently, so much of this goes on the back burner, although never totally out of mind.

However, whilst popping into my local model shop yesterday to pick up a little more wire for all those beams, my eye was drawn to a rather humble careworn station building of some sort plonked on the table top roundy-roundy on display. During a conversation with the proprietor, it was established that it was indeed a Triang example (R60) although further chat had to be cut short as I was running late for lunch with my daughter.

But you know when something strikes a chord and starts a train of thoughts ?

I popped back to the shop earlier this morning with measuring stick in hand, where I found the poor guy stuck on the phone to the insurance company attempting to resolve a damage only accident in which he’d been involved with several other cars during the recent inclement spell. Kindly, he broke off to apologise for his distraction and enquired if mine was only a brief enquiry. Unusually for me, I was brief; his mood told a tale, so I didn’t bother with the waffle for once and got straight to the point: was it for sale?

Anyway, four quid later I was in possession of what might just become Monks’ station building:



Yeah I know what you’re going to say: I was robbed

Not only does this broken boxey structure lack several of its original parts, it’s nowhere near long enough or high enough for the job - although it’s definitely wide enough as the structure will be represented in low relief, so as always, I’m thankful for small mercies

Still, it has a redolent charm of sorts and more importantly, bags of potential in mine eyes

So it’s my intention at some point to take the saw to it. Watch this space!

And of course, if it all goes pear shaped, hey, I’m down four quid

Jonte

 

[simond]

I had one of those...

 

[jonte]

I had one of those...

I think that’s the title of a Dublo layout doing the rounds, Simon?

Jonte

 

[jonte]

I’d marked out in pencil where I was originally intending to cut and insert an extension piece to increase the height. I think you can just make it out in this (I extended it around the whole of the building):



However, initial positioning using an offcut of (metric sized) 2” x 1”, shows that fortuitously, no cutting in respect of height will be required if I use wood of this size for platforms. I’ve checked the wood for height against my test coach which would appear about right. If I use a thin material to represent the platform surface - and into which I can sink the building to avoid an unsightly line - I might just have got away with it (notice I didn’t use ‘may’ as there’ll no doubt be something I haven’t foreseen and it’ll be another crock). I ‘may’ just get lucky, although pigs might fly

A couple more to give an idea of how things lie:



Now, time to stop getting distracted and get back to the more pressing issue of that roof.

Jonte